The Less Talked About Things That Ruin Modern Media

[Glory To Arztotska]

I've often wondered what a modern updating of Three kingdoms would be like - say, set it in a setting that resembles Chicago in the 1920s, and have each of the factions be a crime family fighting for dominance. Maybe have the Shu family be a family of policemen, trying to bring justice to the city. Or something like that. Might be interesting in the hands of a good writer.

Or just take a page from Sleeping Dogs and set it in modern/recent Hong Kong with warring Triads.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Having things be too safe. Characters fall too much into archetypes and never really have any meaningful conflict or flaws. It's not mary sue level blandnes, but it's still a bore. With games, having a lot of filler makes this worse as you forget how characters even act.

The other extreme opposite of this, as in making a character go through inhumane levels of suffering because of things such as "it happens in real-life", "we're trying to give the character flaws to prevent a Mary-Sue", and "SuBvErTiNg ExPeCtAtIoNs", is also just as awful. Usually those things are done to destroy an existing character to forcefully push for new (and unlikable ones), i.e. the Joel-in-One in TLOU2, Luke just dying in TLJ, and John Connor getting killed off at the start of Terminator: Dark Fate.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Another thing I hate is repetitive or "safe" theming. Oh, another show about how war is bad. Such stunning, such brave. Oh, another RPG that gives the same standard feel-good messages that a lot of children's cartoons did... but somehow needs 30 hours to deliver it when said cartoons did it in 22 minutes.

Even stuff that's supposedly "for adults" feels like its actually for children.

Like, here's something that would actually be interesting: What if instead of "war is bad," do a game that gives a serious examination of why war and conflict happen. Not the standard "because power hungry men at the top force everyone else to go along," but go into the gritty details: the hard-to-reconcile cultural differences, people's egos being at play, communication failures (both the technical kind and the "people got mad and started shouting" kind), and point out the real reasons peace is hard to achieve without just saying "a big demon is behind it all."

But they'd never do that. First, they're probably not smart enough to, and second even if they were, they'd be afraid of someone smearing the game as promoting some negative message.

Heck, just doing an accurate adaptation of the novel Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong would probably blow people's minds. All the adaptations I've seen (like Dynasty Warriors) tend to ignore parts of the story that don't fit into a happy fun shonen anime dynamic.

Part of me wants to have Japan be in a costly war just to have it be reminded that "love not hate" only lasts until the body bags start incoming en masse.

But I mean less being pacifist and just characters being too positive. I'm playing Atelier Yumia and non of the characters are really memorable because they are too friendly and plain. You need characters to be more selfish/assholish/aloof so you remember they exist, and they can then have an arc.

The other extreme opposite of this, as in making a character go through inhumane levels of suffering because of things such as "it happens in real-life", "we're trying to give the character flaws to prevent a Mary-Sue", and "SuBvErTiNg ExPeCtAtIoNs", is also just as awful. Usually those things are done to destroy an existing character to forcefully push for new (and unlikable ones), i.e. the Joel-in-One in TLOU2, Luke just dying in TLJ, and John Connor getting killed off at the start of Terminator: Dark Fate.

Honestly I'd rather trying too hard having the characters be unique than having nothing to latch on to. The main issue in those attempts is that usually they just create a different breed of mary sue.

My immediate example of having a character that is rough around the edges that makes it only more endearing is the cast of Bocchi:

 

[pissfoam]

Modern filmmakers don't put love into set design like they used to. CGI and greenscreens don't hold up against hand-crafted details that make you feel like you've been transported to a tangible world. Even the best CGI can't replace the awe that comes from amazing miniatures like the ones used in Blade Runner and Escape from New York. It's too uncanny and "fake" looking, even with how far it's come. In fact, I think CGI has regressed from the 2000s.


Here's a (recently viral) clip of the late Syd Mead describing a parking meter he designed for the set of Blade Runner. I feel that this can put my thoughts to words better than I can articulate right now.

 

[BigBadBastich]

I think animated media has one large glaring issue when it comes to voices and games do too, they always feel the need to cast the biggest names and celebrities to sell the product. If the person does have the talent then more power to them but you don't need to cast B-List actor or Jack Black and Ackwafina to play some CGI lion or Troy Baker playing another role once again.

 

[Orphaned Punk]

The author will never die.
Authors can indirectly degrade the credibility and authority of their product's narrative by being stupid.

Spoiler: Interesting modern UIs

Cruelty Squad.

Peripeteia.

Signalis.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

, I think CGI has regressed from the 2000s.

my hunch is previously execs didn't trust computers because it was new and scary, so they would bitch if it was bad and so the creatives picked their cg shots well to do things that looked good
the new age is execs who think computers are magic boxes and say "no do all computer, that way it's the magic box and we can redo it over and over because it's easy magic box"

 

[Drihten]

Heck, just doing an accurate adaptation of the novel Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong would probably blow people's minds. All the adaptations I've seen (like Dynasty Warriors) tend to ignore parts of the story that don't fit into a happy fun shonen anime dynamic.

There's the 1994 show which is quite accurate, the one issue with that is that previous subbing efforts for it are pretty awful and inaccurate, but thankfully a fansubbing group called "Gentlemen of the Han" have taken the task of subbing it themselves, in fact they've just released the penultimate batch of episodes, you can find their website here.

Anyways for me, one thing that really irritates me about modern media is sound mixing, nobody seemingly knows how to do it anymore. Dialogue will be much quieter than effects and in the worst cases music, with it blaring over whatever the characters are saying. Is it any wonder that more and more people are using subtitles?

 

[BigBadBastich]

my hunch is previously execs didn't trust computers because it was new and scary, so they would bitch if it was bad and so the creatives picked their cg shots well to do things that looked good
the new age is execs who think computers are magic boxes and say "no do all computer, that way it's the magic box and we can redo it over and over because it's easy magic box"

The talent for competent computer-generated effects is also drying up due to a number of factors. Many of them are underpaid and underappreciated working tirelessly long hours for sociopathic directors, actors and producers. In the mid 2000s you had Weta for example doing amazing CGI that still looks good to this day like the King Kong remake and going the extra mile to make the setting and animals actually feel like they exist. Or Davy Jones motion-capture work. The people who did all that now are gone and replaced by third-worlders who will take the abuse have 1/25th of the talent and will work for a fraction of the money.

 

[skykiii]

But I mean less being pacifist and just characters being too positive. I'm playing Atelier Yumia and non of the characters are really memorable because they are too friendly and plain. You need characters to be more selfish/assholish/aloof so you remember they exist, and they can then have an arc.

Tying back to my earlier statement, one thing I would like to see more of is....

There was an episode of Teen Titans Go called "Nean" where people forced Raven to be nicer, but in doing so it nearly led to the rest of the team being idiots and making potentially disastrous decisions because Raven wasn't around to tell them "you know that's retarded, right?" The episode made this a moral, being "mean to be nice," that sometimes the asshole is actually being the kindest person in the room because they're saying something you may not necessarily want to hear, but which you need to hear.

And its amazing how fucking rare it is. Usually the assholes are the ones who "get an arc" and "improve" themselves. It's kinda telling that its fucking Teen Titans Go of all shows that ever went the other way and had "the people trying too hard to be nice could actually be enabling destructive behaviors."

And when I can say anything at all about Teen Titans Go doing something better than most media, something is wrong.

For another example of something good coming from an unusual place, recently I was watching the Salamander OVA (based on the Gradius games). It does the thing where the heroes break ranks, defy orders, wind up winning the day, but still get court martialled.... but its also the only anime in history (to my knowledge) where someone actually sits down and explains why that is (to wit, its because the yahoo being an unexpected hero is rare--most of the time yahoos breaking ranks and defying orders just leads to catastrophe, so its a thing you never ever want to encourage). I'm amazed that the one place I've seen this explanation is in an obscure anime based on a video game.

I've often wondered what a modern updating of Three kingdoms would be like - say, set it in a setting that resembles Chicago in the 1920s, and have each of the factions be a crime family fighting for dominance. Maybe have the Shu family be a family of policemen, trying to bring justice to the city. Or something like that. Might be interesting in the hands of a good writer.

Maybe, but I feel like "Three Kingdoms but X" types of things is that they lose an essential dynamic. In your scenario the United States government (or whatever law enforcement) still exist as an independent faction, which was not the case in the novel or indeed, the actual historical period.

I remember ten years ago I once talked to this guy who was a Brony and wanted to do a Pony version of Three Kingdoms, but he said it was "natural" because there's pegasus, unicorns, and "normal" ponies... I hated this at first glance because this immediately re-frames the narrative as a racial conflict, which feels a little too current year and destructive to the original story for my tastes (not to mention all the logic you'd have to rethink. The scene where Cao Cao crosses a river by linking boats together can't happen if Cao Cao's entire army can simply fly, for example).

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Another thing I hate is repetitive or "safe" theming. Oh, another show about how war is bad. Such stunning, such brave. Oh, another RPG that gives the same standard feel-good messages that a lot of children's cartoons did... but somehow needs 30 hours to deliver it when said cartoons did it in 22 minutes.

Even stuff that's supposedly "for adults" feels like its actually for children.

Like, here's something that would actually be interesting: What if instead of "war is bad," do a game that gives a serious examination of why war and conflict happen. Not the standard "because power hungry men at the top force everyone else to go along," but go into the gritty details: the hard-to-reconcile cultural differences, people's egos being at play, communication failures (both the technical kind and the "people got mad and started shouting" kind), and point out the real reasons peace is hard to achieve without just saying "a big demon is behind it all."

But they'd never do that. First, they're probably not smart enough to, and second even if they were, they'd be afraid of someone smearing the game as promoting some negative message.

Heck, just doing an accurate adaptation of the novel Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong would probably blow people's minds. All the adaptations I've seen (like Dynasty Warriors) tend to ignore parts of the story that don't fit into a happy fun shonen anime dynamic.

Zhenjis suicide, Zhao Yun throwing baby Liu Shan to the ground, Liu Bei eating that guy's wife, and a dead Zhang Ji getting cucked by Cao Cao.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Honestly I'd rather trying too hard having the characters be unique than having nothing to latch on to. The main issue in those attempts is that usually they just create a different breed of mary sue.

My immediate example of having a character that is rough around the edges that makes it only more endearing is the cast of Bocchi:

I also forgot to mention that while having a character go through complete hell can make for a great story if done well, there has been a trend of making a character go through complete hell with ZERO payoff at the end. Ellie from TLOU2 is one example of this.

 

[homophobic fujoshi]

Honestly, lack of attractive actors/characters. Every time I watch some old TV or movie it strikes me how good looking the actors were. Specifically classically attractive white people are practically extinct in media now. Think of young Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Winona Ryder, Natalie Portman etc. Instead they push shit like the "ratman" meme to normalize ugly actors everywhere. It removes a huge part of the escapist appeal in entertainment when everyone looks like average joe or worse.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Honestly, lack of attractive actors/characters. Every time I watch some old TV or movie it strikes me how good looking the actors were. Specifically classically attractive white people are practically extinct in media now. Think of young Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Winona Ryder, Natalie Portman etc. Instead they push shit like the "ratman" meme to normalize ugly actors everywhere. It removes a huge part of the escapist appeal in entertainment when everyone looks like average joe or worse.

Yup, that's how I felt when this Austin Powers clip got into my feed. Casting is now a lost art in Hollywood where the actors aren't even that good at acting. Yeah, actors were sexier back then, but they had charisma that went beyond their looks too. I'm told Villeneuve's Dune movies are top-tier movie experiences today, but after watching them myself, I regard the whole experience with ambivalence.

Also, and I blame this on Hans Zimmer, is how film score is bland wallpaper now in Hollywood. Up until 2010, film score was fantastic as orchestral music in its own right. Then The Dark Knight becomes the most famous movie ever and everything after it is some version of that score. If I want to find good film score, I have to look towards video games. If I want to find great score, I play Japanese video games. I don't look towards American media now.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

Honestly, lack of attractive actors/characters. Every time I watch some old TV or movie it strikes me how good looking the actors were. Specifically classically attractive white people are practically extinct in media now. Think of young Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Winona Ryder, Natalie Portman etc. Instead they push shit like the "ratman" meme to normalize ugly actors everywhere. It removes a huge part of the escapist appeal in entertainment when everyone looks like average joe or worse.

seems to me up until around the late 80s there were a lot of actors who were "striking" but weren't by any stretch "attractive"
the "attractive" ones were your leads, and then you had "striking" in the direction you wanted
then from like, early 90s until the 00s or so it was a lot more "varying degrees of fashion models, also character actors"

 

[skykiii]

Anyways for me, one thing that really irritates me about modern media is sound mixing, nobody seemingly knows how to do it anymore. Dialogue will be much quieter than effects and in the worst cases music, with it blaring over whatever the characters are saying. Is it any wonder that more and more people are using subtitles?

Quoting this because its absolutely true and kinda got buried by other posts. I absolutely hate the rigamorole of "can't hear, turn it up--SUDDENLY ITS SUPER LOUD AHHHH TURN IT DOWN!" that often comes with cinema. Even if its an older movie, if its had remixed audio it will still have this problem.

That I tend to be a night owl and watch movies when others are asleep does not help.

 

[Hypercop]

Constant jump cuts, short shot-length, and snappy dialogue. I miss when films weren't edited like Youtube videos.

 

[God of Nothing]

The general lack of sincerity and earnestness. People call it "millenial humor, marvel quips etc"

But deep down modern media is ashamed to DO and to BE. So instead it just SAYS and tries to show itself as smart and self aware, but it ends up being a half commited mess.

Everything feels the same because everything is the same. We are cursed with the most unoriginal and uncreative people running media now. They see something really original they like and they have to copy it.

These two are good. I'll add a post I made about writing in general from A&N

People here say a lot of shitty writing comes from a lack of life experience using Tolkien as an example. I'd say it comes from an unwillingness to actually write. A story is natural progression from point to point with some points being brighter than others. Hacks try jumping straight to these bright points, incapable of realizing they're bright because "dull" ones exist. Characters are more devices than people you can believe exist. Progression of all kind isn't progression but setting the dial of x literary element to what the hack wants. This isn't a story: this is manufactured product.

The kidnapping rapist loves his special victim instead of discarding her as one would when bored. Werewolves and vampires exist not to add mystery or otherworldlyness but to convey how "special" the protagonist is. Elements to characters and the setting no longer serve to define them but to enhance the experience for the protagonist, the audience self-insert. As a grown man, I cannot identify as nor find a useless blank slate tolerable as the forefront of a story. Such a thing is just product, not a story, anyway.

I say product because it's all interchangeable. Everything has been done, yes. These are all done the same exact way, whether intentional or not. If you have read one, you have more or less read them all. There is no meaningful differentiation like 1984 and Brave New World. It is all the same product: slop.

Anyway, I need to fucking sleep.

Or, they grew up writing fanfics of something and they are unable to come up with anything that's not slice of life.

Worse. It's shitty fanfic. We're not dealing with AU or what-ifs that actually change the story and setting into something more dynamic and interesting. This is the spontaneous fanfic plotpoint we're dealing with. No logic to it. Just forced shit to try and make you feel something without any build up. Writing with too much feeling in mind and not enough reason to make it work, if it ever could even.

 

[hog cranking frog]

I've found leaving a culture gap of 5-10 years helps weed out the shit that's all just trendy copies and let the worthwhile cream float to the top. Don't pay for a single streaming service. Pirate everything. Live like we did before on demand, it will be frustrating for a week then your brain will settle in and enjoy it.

That said I hope it becomes trendy to let your content breath more if not I'll probably never watch something new again. I hate the fast cuts and quips, let me actually think about your content instead of just overwhelming my senses

A furry fag at work once complained about a columbo scene because it was too long and boring for his fried brain. It's bleek.

 

[skykiii]

Worse. It's shitty fanfic. We're not dealing with AU or what-ifs that actually change the story and setting into something more dynamic and interesting. This is the spontaneous fanfic plotpoint we're dealing with. No logic to it. Just forced shit to try and make you feel something without any build up. Writing with too much feeling in mind and not enough reason to make it work, if it ever could even.

I sometimes have this exact problem with a lot of anime writing (which I think is where some of this comes from), where it feels like things are happening not because they make sense but just to give you a certain feeling. It was one reason I didn't like Steins;Gate--the latter half of the show devolved into "let's have bad things happen to the cute one so the audience will go Oh No, that poor girl!"

.............

So, here's one that came to mind....

Part of me almost feels that internet discourse hampers enjoyment as well (and yes, I do in fact see the ironing).

Now, partially this is a "me" thing, but for example: despite being a guy who loves the NES, I find it hard to get myself hyped to play Super Mario 3, because Youtube and other places are constantly hyping it up and shoving videos in my face about how "Mario 3 is the bestest game evarrr" and it just makes me... not.

On a personal level it creates a disconnect. Games that I'm not reminded about become nostalgic icons for me, like I'm inclined to remember something like Ys fondly but when I start thinking of Ocarina of Time, I have to fight to remember that I do have some dear memories connected to it--rather than seeing it as "that one overhyped game that Youtube never shuts up about."

There can be like, weird dimensions to this too. Playing Mario 3 now doesn't feel like playing it back then because, for example, I've watched speedruns and stuff, or I'm aware of how the code works, or so on and so forth.

Then it comes to modern stuff, and maybe I'm just a cynic but for example, when Undertale was being hyped to HFIL and back a few years ago, my inclination was to think "okay, it sounds too perfect, so when are we gonna have people come out and say its actually really bad?"

........ Another dimension this takes is, I've noticed (as have some of my friends) that sometimes watching reviews becomes an alternative to actually engaging with the media. Like if I watch someone else review Brandish for SNES, I now feel like I have just played it so I'm no longer interested in it. This... is probably an extreme "me" thing, admittedly, and basically means I should avoid reviews.