Tabletop Community Watch

I've never looked up actual numbers, but I just had a sense that when it launched, MonPoc was doing pretty good going by how much store presence it had around town and how many places were running tournaments. When it came back I knew of.... 1 single, solitary store that was carrying it.
I saw a few stores try to carry it for 2.0, and even some people playing it initially but it died off pretty fast from what I saw(probably due to everything else wrong with PP). But it looks like they crowdfunded the boardgame on two separate platforms? wtf?
That's the kickstarter page I was aware of, I hadn't heard of the gamefound page

At least it seems that PP is giving backers the STLs and the rules, but it's still stupid. Mythic themselves, good fucking riddance.
Fucked up Anastyr, monpoc, the r6 siege boardgame, super fantasy brawl, darkest dungeon, hel, steamwatchers, enchanters, time of legends 1.5, super fantasy brawl 1(wtf did people back a sequel when they didn't even deliver properly for the first one?), solomon kane, time of legends 1 with people not getting their shit. Seems the only one they may have gotten mostly right was reichbusters on pure accident. PP partnering with this company was fucking retarded because even before the monpoc boardgame kickstarter they could have seen the problems.

PP being retarded strikes again.
 
TCG system killed monpoc here. No one wanted to invest in random model boxes. I saw it played once or twice and then players stuck to warmachine after. If they had released faction boxes would the game have done better? Probably. There was a lot of hype and gacha mechanics put off so many people. It's okay for the hardcore TCG player to buy boxes of random but wargaming types PP had on their side would already be playing Magic casually and wouldn't be playing multiple loot box games.
 
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TCG system killed monpoc here. No one wanted to invest in random model boxes. I saw it played once or twice and then players stuck to warmachine after. If they had released faction boxes would the game have done better? Probably.
Yeah I never understood why they tried the random distro model. It would have been smarter IMO had they done non random distribution.

The game system itself is amazing and had they kept it being prepainted and cheaper models, I think it could have had a long life among those of us who enjoy dabbling in miniatures but don't want to adopt a whole lifestyle of it like 40k.
 
Jesus Christ can they stop crowdfunding games. I really want to like mantic I really do but the Kickstarters need to end now. If you as an established miniature company don't have the funds to make a game from the ground up then you don't have the funds to make the game full stop. Unlike Halo I don't think Assassins Creed has the fan base that would transfer over to the tabletop despite how often the hobbies intersect.
 
Jesus Christ can they stop crowdfunding games. I really want to like mantic I really do but the Kickstarters need to end now. If you as an established miniature company don't have the funds to make a game from the ground up then you don't have the funds to make the game full stop. Unlike Halo I don't think Assassins Creed has the fan base that would transfer over to the tabletop despite how often the hobbies intersect.
I can see an AC TTRPG working more than a tabletop one. Specially if I guess you'd get the FreeLeague guys on it.
 
Jesus Christ can they stop crowdfunding games. I really want to like mantic I really do but the Kickstarters need to end now. If you as an established miniature company don't have the funds to make a game from the ground up then you don't have the funds to make the game full stop. Unlike Halo I don't think Assassins Creed has the fan base that would transfer over to the tabletop despite how often the hobbies intersect.
Kickstarter is definitely a bad crutch for established companies. It gets them a surge of income and of course product out the door that's paid for(assuming they didn't fuck things up... more on that later) but the problem is once the kickstarter is over with, they need another because there's no continued revenue. People have covered this many times before, and it's wildly apparent, but most kickstarters that do make it to a retail phase after launch don't succeed in that environment as the buyers with the most interest have already received everything at a massive discount(compared to retail) from the kickstarter. The boardgames with the 16 unlocked stretch goal expansions that never get played and eventually end up in a landfill are probably the worst examples of this.

There's been a number of board game companies that have either already shutdown, or announced they will be over the past couple of weeks even before the tariffs took effect, and apparently a lot of it is because these small to mid size companies are run by idiots. The article goes over 2 examples, one of which fucked up by trusting CMON with a massive order in fucking Chinese of all things, who then failed to pay them. CMON has been known for years to have issues in the industry like this. The other company is the producers of Gloomhaven, who apparently decided to quadruple their KS production needs to sell the rest to retail but are then crying about tariffs(yet everything was funded and paid for, with the KS backers funding their speculation into retail) and claiming they owe millions of dollars because of the 100+% tarfiffs because if the miscellaneous toys import codes but...
Screenshot 2025-04-25 125907.webp

In other words, properly classifying their shit for import means they avoid the massive generic tariff even though smaller tariffs exist. Why wouldn't they classify their shit correctly? Because apparently the people running some of these companies are dumb or never looked into it. They just rely on the freight forwarders to do it all for them(or are getting scammed by freight companies), or just go with the miscellaneous option because it'll get through customs the quickest(and previously it didn't matter). Someone in the comments actually inadvertently affirms the customs issue by pointing out that customs will want to reclassify things, cause delays, force people to appeal re-classifications... well yes they do and that's why if you want to save the money you fight it. But your company also shouldn't be on such razor thin margins that a 2 month delay bankrupts you. There's another commenter claiming that the article is full of misinformation(when it cites shit) who says they're Loren Coleman from Catalyst Game Labs, well that's a respectable company so maybe this person does know their shit? Oh right, that's the Loren Coleman from CGL who knows so much they got away with embezzling company funds to buy themselves a house a few years back instead of properly paying staff.

Yes, it's a very long read and the owner of this boardgame company is indeed selling a book about running a game company at the end, but it's interesting and points out many patterns over the years that have apparently come back to bite people in the ass because they were being lazy.
 
Kickstarter is definitely a bad crutch for established companies. It gets them a surge of income and of course product out the door that's paid for(assuming they didn't fuck things up... more on that later) but the problem is once the kickstarter is over with, they need another because there's no continued revenue. People have covered this many times before, and it's wildly apparent, but most kickstarters that do make it to a retail phase after launch don't succeed in that environment as the buyers with the most interest have already received everything at a massive discount(compared to retail) from the kickstarter. The boardgames with the 16 unlocked stretch goal expansions that never get played and eventually end up in a landfill are probably the worst examples of this.
Every time I tell people these companies end up using Kickstarter as a way to rob Peter to pay Paul, and that's why most of them end up bankrupt after a few projects even though all their kickstarters were described as "wildly" successful, I get yelled at by retards who don't understand how money works. The sooner that business model is dead and buried, the better. Seriously, crowdfunding is great for certain things, but we've had it for what? 10+ years now? People really should have cottoned on that it's one of the least transparent and most unstable business models out there.
 
Every time I tell people these companies end up using Kickstarter as a way to rob Peter to pay Paul, and that's why most of them end up bankrupt after a few projects even though all their kickstarters were described as "wildly" successful, I get yelled at by retards who don't understand how money works. The sooner that business model is dead and buried, the better. Seriously, crowdfunding is great for certain things, but we've had it for what? 10+ years now? People really should have cottoned on that it's one of the least transparent and most unstable business models out there.
Indeed. It makes sense for small projects and startups and their associated risk. Companies like Mantic, Wyrd, CGL, Privateer Press, Cephalofair, etc. should not need Kickstarter for anything as it's a sign they're bad with their money and failed to invest in their own business to be able to launch their next product.

And of course even with all of the changes Kickstarter has made over the years regarding policies of needing prototypes instead of just concept drawings, putting delays between kickstarter campaigns, they still fail constantly with money just disappearing due to mismanagement of the project or just outright theft.

But the Gloomhaven thing is just idiocy. 10-15k kickstarter orders, got enough money to fund a run of 65,000. The smarter thing would have been to do a run of 30k copies leaving plenty for retail and then investing the rest of the money back into the business either for production or the next project and then let the retail sales fund another 15k copies of the game if necessary. And of course do the proper fucking homework for your freight handling.
 
I read about a game called War Room today. Any good? Any crazy politics I should know about?

Not buying it yet. That price is nuts. But it looks cool and is on sale.
I know it's from the same designer that did Axis and Allies. The company has a small booth at PAX East last year. Looks fun. But you'd need at least 3 people and it's probably more time consuming than Axis and Allies.
 
CMON Pausing all future crowd funding projects.

I think that's pretty huge. CMON has been using Kickstarter since 2012 I think. It became their model on how to put new games out.

If this helps them concentrate on the current projects to get them out in a timely manner, I'm all for it.

I back their Cthulhu Death May Die Fear of the Unknown Kickstarter. Before I had even gotten my pledge. cmon announced another Cthulhu Death May Die projects on Gamefound.
 
Indeed. It makes sense for small projects and startups and their associated risk. Companies like Mantic, Wyrd, CGL, Privateer Press, Cephalofair, etc. should not need Kickstarter for anything as it's a sign they're bad with their money and failed to invest in their own business to be able to launch their next product.
The model used to be that in order to start a new business you had to find some kind of investor. That would be either a bank (in the form of a loan), or someone with money to burn. Presumably, the bank or the investors would have enough business sense to evaluate your proposal and your skills, and either put in the cash (with all the strings they wanted attached), or tell you to fuck off an earn more experience/come up with new ideas before trying it again. With Kickstarter, you bypass the hassle of finding an investor... but you also lose the associated moderating element in the form of their business expertise. So while it looks like you're doing it with less risk, all you're doing is shifting that risk to your clients. You know, the people you're supposed to be making happy and protecting.

But it's all in the name, really. Kickstarter is useful for, wait for it, kickstarting your business! Once you have your first project off the ground and profitable, quit trying to turn preorders into your entire business model, develop some business sense yourself, and reinvest the money you got from your first project into your next one. All this does is encourage these companies to set themselves higher and higher goals, and take stupid risks, because they know they can get away with it. Until their audience cottons on or there's a market shift, and they crash and burn.
 
Yeah I never understood why they tried the random distro model. It would have been smarter IMO had they done non random distribution.
because more money (in theory). however not even card games can get away with that anymore, so they probably only looked at the (possible) numbers, not the market itself.

But it's all in the name, really. Kickstarter is useful for, wait for it, kickstarting your business! Once you have your first project off the ground and profitable, quit trying to turn preorders into your entire business model
actually, you do both. saves you from overproducing and sitting on dead stock. once you can gauge how high the interest is via crowdfunding, you can estimate how much you'll be able to later shit via retail. in the end everybody wins, early birds get the game cheaper, enough early birds mean you'll hit the volume necessary to start producing in the first place (or cheaper after milestone), normies and everyone else can buy it in the store and leave with a game right after.

plus it's not the wild-west it was 10 years ago, there's plenty of information around how to handle a kickstarter, and people are more aware of possible duds.
 
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https://www.highnoongame.com/post/the-boardgame-industry-is-burning There's been a number of board game companies that have either already shutdown, or announced they will be over the past couple of weeks even before the tariffs took effect, and apparently a lot of it is because these small to mid size companies are run by idiots. The article goes over 2 examples, one of which fucked up by trusting CMON with a massive order in fucking Chinese of all things, who then failed to pay them.
Thanks for that link. Did you see the comments? If nobody else does before I get back home from the girder factory they are full of material for this thread.

Also I see there was a follow-up post.
 
Thanks for that link. Did you see the comments? If nobody else does before I get back home from the girder factory they are full of material for this thread.

Also I see there was a follow-up post.
Yes, I mentioned the comment from Catalyst Game Labs in the post. There was also another comment crying about CBP misclassifying items and delaying shipments with the appeal process, which basically confirmed what the hell the author was referring to about people just wanting to take the quick and easy route. There was another commenter that also whined that when he checked the website that the author had cited, it was 40% now instead of 20... that's still a hell of a lot fucking less than 145% and doesn't change the fact that if a shipment had come in at the 20% rate or even the 40% that's what would be owed and not 145% if people classified their shit correctly for customs.

Then you also have to simply ask yourself why other companies haven't felt the need to double the MSRP of their products. Yes, they're going to take a hit to their margins but it's not world ending if the company has been managed properly in the first place. And of course, US manufacturers exist for this shit.
Cartamundi prints Magic The Gathering for WotC, and some other games as well. Oh no, you might have to switch to a different manufacturer with a track record of being mostly competent. That's not to say that I agree with spiking tariffs to stupidly high rates in a short span of time, but solutions do exist for what is basically a non-essential entertainment industry run by a lot of idiots it seems.
 
This faggot is the only guy on youtube making sure no one forgets about that trash game. Can't he just fuck off already?
I haven't seen a single tabletop youtuber who HASN'T shilled for Tranch Crusade. That $3.33 million in crowdfunding sure is being used appropriately. Arch having a giggle becuase they wasted their shot at some huge convention/expo to cry about him and bitch that the wrong kind of fans liked their game instead of show off their game is perfectly acceptable.
 
I haven't seen a single tabletop youtuber who HASN'T shilled for Tranch Crusade. That $3.33 million in crowdfunding sure is being used appropriately. Arch having a giggle becuase they wasted their shot at some huge convention/expo to cry about him and bitch that the wrong kind of fans liked their game instead of show off their game is perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, during the kickstarter and then they all stopped. Last time I checked there would be week long gaps between battle reports because no one cares when they're not making money off it.
 
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