Sperg about comic books here

[Mayor Cody Travers]

I'm only familiar with Byrne's run because I believe he kills Diana off for some reason.

For as much a shithead Byrne is I'll grant when he gets a good idea, it's a good idea: I still thought him retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age Wonder Woman so Diana could be the modern-day/present one was a really great continuity fix. That threaded the needle so well for solving the JSA/JLA Wondy paradox I don't see why they changed it since, especially since I'm down for Diana aging when not on Thermiscyra to let her have a normal life alongside her fellow Leaguers.

(I also readily think Steve Trevor should always be with Diana and updated to wherever she is on the timeline as well, mind)

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I might go back to reread the three Pérez omnibuses too because that still remains, bar none, the best run for WW as well as a good starting point for newcomers who might not be familiar with her. War of the Gods, every bit of Barbara Minerva, and the stuff with Mindi Mayer. Can't get better than that nowadays.

Still can't wrap my head around why that one faggot writer (Azarelli?) decided to make her child of Zeus because it just doesn't make sense and has troubling connotations. Yes Zeus is in mythology a massive horn dog and in this canon Diana is descended from gods and such but........idk the formed from clay, gifted by gods origin in Pérez's run is a more fitting origin.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Oh the Mystique solo. So fun. So stupid. Her line about the illegal music downloads on Xanga plants it firmly in incredibly dated land. This is followed up by the Rogue solo in which she gets tangled up with Sunfire and Deathstrike.

I need more Bishop and Sage detective stories tbh. And a drink.

I'm surprised there hasn't been omnibus collections of specifically X-Men 91 exclusively although that's because the start leads in and out of so many other titles. Chuck Austen's disaster of a run should be collected but they need to go all in and make fun of it being complete shit. (Like how Discotek has on the back cover of the Street Fighter cartoon all the memes and in jokes in their summaries.

Im surprised that Generation X doesn't have an omnibus either.

I reread End of Greys and.....I know its fiction and I know half the deaths are characters who only have what....one appearance tops, but wow it gave me a visceral reaction. It disturbed me which obviously was the intention but still. Like does Jean even know her entire family is gone? Unless it got retconed. The Shi'ar can be such asshats.

Marvels been pretty decent omnibus-wise with the early 90s X-Men run though the reading order for some stuff is FUBARed due to certain stories being collected out of sequence by storyline and the whole Shattershot debacle.

They also have recently announced a new comprehensive omnibus line (Blue and Gold), the first volume of which will collect everything in order from X-Men #1/UXM #281 through Xcutioners Song. Which has created rumor that Marvels going to delete the two Claremont/Lee omnibus since more comprehensive collections are being rolled out.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Marvels been pretty decent omnibus-wise with the early 90s X-Men run though the reading order for some stuff is FUBARed due to certain stories being collected out of sequence by storyline and the whole Shattershot debacle.

They also have recently announced a new comprehensive omnibus line (Blue and Gold), the first volume of which will collect everything in order from X-Men #1/UXM #281 through Xcutioners Song. Which has created rumor that Marvels going to delete the two Claremont/Lee omnibus since more comprehensive collections are being rolled out.

I thought Shatterstar was in the future/alt timeline until he showed up in X-Factor in 2005?

 

[MirrorNoir]

I thought Shatterstar was in the future/alt timeline until he showed up in X-Factor in 2005?

Shattershot, not Shatterstar. The 1992 X-Men annual cover that involved Mojo that went out of its way to NOT speak Longshot's name (and Jim Lee's Longshot storyline) because of Bob Harras's hate for the character and ended with a bullshit non canon future story with a random future Xforce roster that was full of pander and evil emperor Shatterstar being manipulated by Mojo henchmen Major Domo.

Marvel refused to reprint it for YEARS until they stuck it in, out of chronology, with the contents of the Skinner of Souls trade (X-Men 17-24) as the Shattershot omnibus

 

[Commander X]

This is pretty funny considering in the comics the X-Men tried to kidnap The Thing and then completely discarded him once they found out he “wasn’t a mutant” (which ended up retconned). Just another great detail about Krakoa era X-Men, everyone's favorite characters are shaking hands with Kevin Feige and Diddy and recreating their own version of Midsommar.

Hickman was writing it at the time I think he was painting Krakoa in a bad light and was going to have the characters realize it, but then Marvel took him off of it and have made sure the writers keep writing about Krakoa like it was the best thing to ever happen to the mutants. Though Hickman's writing of Krakoa had many problems too, like trying to make Apocalypse sympathetic and misunderstood, I believe he was attempting to write a deconstruction of a utopia but Marvel hijacked the story and it turned into a prolonged character assassination.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

View attachment 7237562

This is pretty funny considering in the comics the X-Men tried to kidnap The Thing and then completely discarded him once they found out he “wasn’t a mutant” (which ended up retconned). Just another great detail about Krakoa era X-Men, everyone's favorite characters are shaking hands with Kevin Feige and Diddy and recreating their own version of Midsommar.

Hickman was writing it at the time I think he was painting Krakoa in a bad light and was going to have the characters realize it, but then Marvel took him off of it and have made sure the writers keep writing about Krakoa like it was the best thing to ever happen to the mutants. Though Hickman's writing of Krakoa had many problems too, like trying to make Apocalypse sympathetic and misunderstood, I believe he was attempting to write a deconstruction of a utopia but Marvel hijacked the story and it turned into a prolonged character assassination.

I feel like Hickman was going to give us a really interesting fucked up story. It feels like the whole Nightcrawler v Onslaught thing was maybe heading towards a really dark place, and then you also had the whole deal with the Shadow King. I think it'd have been truly interesting to see Apocalypse become a more. . . complicatedly grey-area character as he realizes his family became truly irredeemably corrupt. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

I like the premise of what Moira X is. I believe Hickman could have pulled off a decent full-execution of all of this. The mutant orgies and the weirdness of everything happening to the X-Men at the time could have definitely been explored and explained by Hickman. Like, bro, Hank McCoy went out of his fucking mind and I 100% wonder if Hickman planned for that to coincide with the broad strokes of what he was doing with Onslaught v Nightcrawler or the Shadow King and just. . . geez.

What Marvel could have done as a compromise would have been to let other writers maybe explore stuff on Krakoa without harming Hickman's plans. It feels like he had some genuinely interesting things that could have been done. Moira X, Charles, and Magneto's roles in all this were weird. What about Proteus, Moira's son? What about Xavier's children? What about the Summers-Grey families? What the fuck was going on with Mikhail Rasputin.

Orchis popping up was slowly trickled in, iirc. It would have been cool to keep the trickle. The revelation that they had other non-X book villains involved was cool. Nightcrawler becoming a Spider-Man was a cool idea. Kamala Khan discovering her x-gene could have been something interesting.

Scarlet Witch trying to redeem herself could have been cool too. Hickman's got flawed writing, but I remember his FF run as being pretty decent. Johnny Storm's last stand and the fallout was pretty well executed. Hickman integrating and explaining what happened to the Inhumans and Kree after the aborted DnA cosmic stuff was also neat.

Hickman's flawed, but I feel like they shoulda let him try it out fully. None of these other retards had the talent to do anything worthwhile and just thought Krakoa was supposed to be some perfect gay communist utopia. The kinds of people who yap about how perfect the Krakoa era was are all retarded faggots who performatively celebrate identity politics and got upset when it was revealed that the post-Hickman Krakoa era just didn't sell.

Hell, Krakoa era coulda really done something cool. Emma Frost and Tony Stark doing that marriage could have led to more interesting things in the right hands. I fucking hate modern DC/Marvel so much.

 

[Humble Architect]

They should’ve just let Hulk go apeshit on Krakoa, I don’t even have a clue for the story reason. I just fucking hated the idea of it.

“We’re gonna build a disgusting child-grabbing ethnostate, fuck our human or mutate friends who’ve been by our side or have it worse.”

Around that time, Immortal Hulk was criticizing the entire MU and it is criminal that Devil didn’t open his mind on Krakoa. I always remember Wolverine being a fucking cunt to She-Hulk talking about “A place you can’t have, it isn’t for you.” So I would’ve loved to see Devil pointing out that the cycle is complete and mutants were genuine eugenics-practicing facists.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

They should’ve just let Hulk go apeshit on Krakoa, I don’t even have a clue for the story reason. I just fucking hated the idea of it.

“We’re gonna build a disgusting child-grabbing ethnostate, fuck our human or mutate friends who’ve been by our side or have it worse.”

Around that time, Immortal Hulk was criticizing the entire MU and it is criminal that Devil didn’t open his mind on Krakoa. I always remember Wolverine being a fucking cunt to She-Hulk talking about “A place you can’t have, it isn’t for you.” So I would’ve loved to see Devil pointing out that the cycle is complete and mutants were genuine eugenics-practicing facists.

I think it could have been really fun to see the X-Men go full ethnostate fascist, but slowly. As the insane Hank McCoy turn was a good example. Have then all justify it as they finally kidnap Franklin Richards and burn down New York looking for Orchis. It would have been so interesting seeing a sort of ego-death of the heroic X-Men. Have it be revealed that The Shadow King or Onslaught had long since been in the back of the minds of the rest of humanity all along, which is why they never stopped being afraid even with X-Men being heroes.

Just have it all be a massive death spiral, get Claremont dialogue and all sorts of deep dark spirals. Cyclops is reminded of the last times they tried a mutant haven. Utopia, Genosha, etc.

Have it all come crashing down as the heroes infested by Onslaught/etc. become worse than the villains. Have Kitty Pryde just flat out kill Sebastian Shaw, or Apocalypse. Show a spiral of degeneracy. Have an arc that distinctly implies creepy free for all orgies, have Blob be with them. You could do a whole lot here by just veering into it. Then do a massive rug pull in the end. IDK, it'd be funny as fuck to have Nightcrawler literally call upon his faith to exorcise them all. But we know modern marvel would never give us this.

 

[Commander X]

Remembered seeing these in old back issues, Bill Sienkiewicz illustrated adverts for Power Man and Iron Fist.

 

[MirrorNoir]

I feel like Hickman was going to give us a really interesting fucked up story. It feels like the whole Nightcrawler v Onslaught thing was maybe heading towards a really dark place, and then you also had the whole deal with the Shadow King. I think it'd have been truly interesting to see Apocalypse become a more. . . complicatedly grey-area character as he realizes his family became truly irredeemably corrupt. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

I like the premise of what Moira X is. I believe Hickman could have pulled off a decent full-execution of all of this. The mutant orgies and the weirdness of everything happening to the X-Men at the time could have definitely been explored and explained by Hickman. Like, bro, Hank McCoy went out of his fucking mind and I 100% wonder if Hickman planned for that to coincide with the broad strokes of what he was doing with Onslaught v Nightcrawler or the Shadow King and just. . . geez.

What Marvel could have done as a compromise would have been to let other writers maybe explore stuff on Krakoa without harming Hickman's plans. It feels like he had some genuinely interesting things that could have been done. Moira X, Charles, and Magneto's roles in all this were weird. What about Proteus, Moira's son? What about Xavier's children? What about the Summers-Grey families? What the fuck was going on with Mikhail Rasputin.

Orchis popping up was slowly trickled in, iirc. It would have been cool to keep the trickle. The revelation that they had other non-X book villains involved was cool. Nightcrawler becoming a Spider-Man was a cool idea. Kamala Khan discovering her x-gene could have been something interesting.

Scarlet Witch trying to redeem herself could have been cool too. Hickman's got flawed writing, but I remember his FF run as being pretty decent. Johnny Storm's last stand and the fallout was pretty well executed. Hickman integrating and explaining what happened to the Inhumans and Kree after the aborted DnA cosmic stuff was also neat.

Hickman's flawed, but I feel like they shoulda let him try it out fully. None of these other retards had the talent to do anything worthwhile and just thought Krakoa was supposed to be some perfect gay communist utopia. The kinds of people who yap about how perfect the Krakoa era was are all retarded faggots who performatively celebrate identity politics and got upset when it was revealed that the post-Hickman Krakoa era just didn't sell.

Hell, Krakoa era coulda really done something cool. Emma Frost and Tony Stark doing that marriage could have led to more interesting things in the right hands. I fucking hate modern DC/Marvel so much.

Hickman was never going to deconstruct Krakoa.

It got leaked that while Krakoa falls, it would have fallen from the Nasty Fucking Boys poisoning Jean Grey for Orchis to make her kill just about everyone when she dropped dead.

And the end game would have been Orchis and X-Men versus Children of the Vault, then Cypher and Omega Sentinel betraying everyone for the Phalanx, and Black Panther and Storms' bastard son being the one who saves the day and made God Emperor.

 

[MirrorNoir]

For as much a shithead Byrne is I'll grant when he gets a good idea, it's a good idea: I still thought him retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age Wonder Woman so Diana could be the modern-day/present one was a really great continuity fix. That threaded the needle so well for solving the JSA/JLA Wondy paradox I don't see why they changed it since, especially since I'm down for Diana aging when not on Thermiscyra to let her have a normal life alongside her fellow Leaguers.

(I also readily think Steve Trevor should always be with Diana and updated to wherever she is on the timeline as well, mind)

Bullshit.

The Golden Age Fury/Ms America patch worked and the only reason we had to wait until 1999/2000 for it to get fleshed out was due to Gaiman holding all things Lyra Hall hostage so Perez and WML couldn't flesh shit out.

Also, it was later revealed that Byrne made Hypoolyta WW/killed Diana because Byrne wanted to erase/invalidate the entire Grant/Ennis and Wagner Demon runs and had to remove Diana from the board to do so because one critical arc from the 90s Demon run relating to the Jason Blood was a real person retcon, had Diana involved in it and he could not retcon it unless Diana was MIA.

The ONLY good thing about the Byrne run was him rehabbing Artemis from parody of 90s grim and gritty heroes you are supposed to laugh at and mock to and fully fleshed out character people liked.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Bullshit.

The Golden Age Fury/Ms America patch worked and the only reason we had to wait until 1999/2000 for it to get fleshed out was due to Gaiman holding all things Lyra Hall hostage so Perez and WML couldn't flesh shit out.

Also, it was later revealed that Byrne made Hypoolyta WW/killed Diana because Byrne wanted to erase/invalidate the entire Grant/Ennis and Wagner Demon runs and had to remove Diana from the board to do so because one critical arc from the 90s Demon run relating to the Jason Blood was a real person retcon, had Diana involved in it and he could not retcon it unless Diana was MIA.

The ONLY good thing about the Byrne run was him rehabbing Artemis from parody of 90s grim and gritty heroes you are supposed to laugh at and mock to and fully fleshed out character people liked.

interesting, there's a lot of post-Crisis stuff that seems to have just been quasi-forgotten about and Gaiman holding that character hostage was apparently one of them.

It got leaked that while Krakoa falls, it would have fallen from the Nasty Fucking Boys poisoning Jean Grey for Orchis to make her kill just about everyone when she dropped dead.

And the end game would have been Orchis and X-Men versus Children of the Vault, then Cypher and Omega Sentinel betraying everyone for the Phalanx, and Black Panther and Storms' bastard son being the one who saves the day and made God Emperor.

and, I think this would have been more entertaining than the snoozefest we got.

Children of the Vault were at least a kinda interesting villain group.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Dawn of X....I didn't mind it. Mauruders, Hellions, X-Force, Excalibur, and Fallen Angels. I liked those. Its interesting even the most forgotten characters are brought back. Like I never expected to see Shinobi Shaw, Christian Frost, Nanny, etc. Krakoa still is confusing to me on a logical level.

Kwannon is probably my favorite most developed character out of the entire lot. I love her interactions with Scalphunter. And she's always kind of a hardass but she does have a soft side, like in Hellions when she is anguished about the safety of her child.

Also Sinister being a troll and making faces is funny to me. Just read his lines in HIM from Powerpuff Girls' voice.

I didn't connect the dots until now but Kitty basically got to live the fairy tale she told Illyana back in the day.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

What's wrong with it? His Daredevil run is up next for me, so I'm curious what the complaints are about his writing style and overall quality.

Zdarskys run is to Morrisons run what Morrisons was to all the silver age sories he "referenced" except Grant understands story structure, and what constitutes good Batman characterization and Chip Zdarsky doesn't.

It ruins Zur-En-Arrh, Catwoman and honestly most of the Bat family by having them all be the most illogical, silly characters possible. Zurs lore is completely rewritten to become a dark inner demon for Batman to fight, Catwoman is a cheating, nagging bitch who treats Batman like garbage at every opportunity while the Batfam are all useless fodder to hype up the threats (or in Gotham War idiots who oppose Batman for no reason).

Batman himself is a toothless bum who is directly responsible for every threat to Gotham; Failsafe and Zur are both his creations, there's the obligatory "writer blames Batman for not killing Joker" segment plus Gotham War where Zdarsky tries to convince you that Catwomans retarded plan is more effective that Batman's War on crime.

It's just...not good. Not to be reductive but that the truth. It's poorly written, the plots drag and are weakly set up, and the only way I can see a person being a fan is either you're an insane "gotta have my Batman" type or you enjoy stories where the hero is a buffoon running in circles. Batman loses himself to Zur and the city to Failsafe, then to Catwoman and Vandal Savage, then to Zur again never achieving any lasting victories but holding off the threat till the next big Gotham takeover.

Unlike Tynion who obviously hates Batman (but loves Tim and Batwoman frsmr), Zdarsky seems to think that what's he's doing is really cool and innovative.

Spoiler: Zdarsky Espresso

Some of his bigger missess:

Obvious Ai

....

Poor people are famous for their disdain of free things.

Spoiler: Random Selection of Zdarsky Cringe

Spoiler: Zdarskys Catwoman

The love of Batman's life

Spoiler: Batman being a retard

Penguin literally pops the pill while Batman is fucking spacing out like a jackass directly in front of him.

Some might disagree but in my humble opinion wrapping your sweaty outerpants over your face to protect yourself from burning up in re-entry is actually dumb as fuck.
This is a microcosm of the entire run: Batman fucks up in a stupid way then does something badass (cringe) with no actual lasting impact before fucking up again.

Spoiler: Awful Jokerwank and retcons

This nigga is ridiculous

A blackman made Joker, you might disagree, you may even have evidence to the contrary but is it really worth it? A black man made Joker.

Spoiler: The Batfamily is retarded

Where Jason decides that training criminals to do more crime actually helps stop crime.

Batman famousky loves to put his brain in robot bodies and turn Gotham into a dictotorial hellscape. Just regular Batman things.

Zdarsky clearly hates Damian but still, c'mon the complete lack of reaction to the whole REPLACED HIS BODY WITH A ROBOT is absurd.

Now he gets it.

Spoiler: Gordon cucks a guy then kills him.

Spoiler: Tim Wank

The guy who invented the book went off book.

Chip defines Tim as the only one who has ever helped Bruce ever.

This like Morrison era fanfiction where Tim is the true beleiver while everyone else has given up on Batman.

This isnt bad in a vacuum but alongside everything else and all the stuff before and after that I havent included it does get incredibly annoying. Everyone else must suck so Tim can shine.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

everything i hear about modern DC/Marvel comics that aren't totally washed in idpol, but feel like anger-inducing disappointments just makes me realize there needs to be solid editors.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Still going through Dazzler. Keeping the letters pages is something all omnibuses need to do i feel. They even kept the face paint winner thing in. Although I don't believe they ever used it for her.

Angel/Warren Worthington is a creep. He keeps trying to get with Dazzler. It is to the point that he buys an actual restaurant out so that he can impress her...even though she's with her lawyer boyfriend. I don't even mean this in a sjw woke shit way. Its so odd. Not as creepy as the Kitty/Pitor shit (and before that Pitor loses his virginity to two women in the Savage Land and there's something unsettling the way it is written).

Dazz also ran into She Hulk, Spider Woman, and Absorbing Man. She's currently trying to find her missing mom.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

everything i hear about modern DC/Marvel comics that aren't totally washed in idpol, but feel like anger-inducing disappointments just makes me realize there needs to be solid editors.

The problem is the editors don't just agree with them, the writers need to believe this shit in order to keep their jobs.

 

[Strawb3rry]

everything i hear about modern DC/Marvel comics that aren't totally washed in idpol, but feel like anger-inducing disappointments just makes me realize there needs to be solid editors.

Modern comics are too edgy and depressing for me. When Mr. Fantastic and Iron Man started to blow up planets in Time Runs Out I decided comics just weren't for me anymore.

 

[Newcomer 42]

darskys run is to Morrisons run what Morrisons was to all the silver age sories he "referenced" except Grant understands story structure, and what constitutes good Batman characterization and Chip Zdarsky doesn't.

I remember reading Joker Year 1 of his, wondering if it would be as good as Batman Year One. It wasn't, and it was as cringe as you say, plus a future story where Joker manages to take over the city (alright), and there's that inane meme of the villain being better than the heroes and how could he have killed everyone whenever he wanted (what?). I hoped for an equivalent to the Joker movie about one guy losing it, not hilariously bad powergaming.
The worst part is that comic writers are getting worse: I ditched reading modern 'books when in Final Crisis Bats is sent across time in a very random way. Oh, and everything about Tom King. The Rorschach book wasn't about said character, ignored most if not all of Watchmen, and included a last-minute "KILL DRUMF!" meme because of course it would, and the guy is overhyped. He also made Enigma a super-smart edgelord who kills everyone and gets away with it for no reason.