Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Trump, meanwhile, has to claim he wasn't actually serous about one of his key campaign points. Fucker probably believed he could get another shot at an easy Nobel Peace Prize like what he wanted to happen with the Norks during his first term.

Have to remember a very large contingent of Trump supporters are a variation of "peace at all costs" in as far America is involved in it. Trump have to square them away and shut them up first and Putin demanding everything instead of taking the sweetheart deals is doing exactly that. Granted it's more on Putin not reading the room on American sentiment and less on Trump playing extra dimensional chess.
 
Have to remember a very large contingent of Trump supporters are a variation of "peace at all costs" in as far America is involved in it. Trump have to square them away and shut them up first and Putin demanding everything instead of taking the sweetheart deals is doing exactly that. Granted it's more on Putin not reading the room on American sentiment and less on Trump playing extra dimensional chess.

There are true isolationists under a Rand Paul umbrella and I can at least respect that position. But I've posted before at length before about that while avoiding entangling foreign treaties and force commitments is good (And I'm going to argue NATO as a pure-defense treaty has enough loopholes its not entangling; or at least wouldn't be if the other members were able to seriously contribute to their own defense. And I'll bloviate on that if I'm made to) the US going full isolationist is simply not a viable option. And that's before we ignore how that's never a recipe for national success.

There is a bunch of other congress critters on the "Not our fight" well, not at this exact moment train. I can see how someone arrives at that position, but it falls apart very quickly in that if Russia takes Ukraine, ad then Moldova, its not going to be very long until Russia is poking at NATO members and doing the same sort of "fueling separatists" that they did in Ukraine.
I don't think there is anything wrong with better accountability, better tracking of delivered items, and smarter spend, but if Russia isn't checked in Ukraine the cost of containing the next Russian genocide is going to be more expensive in turns of hardware and probably American blood.

The whole "Offer putin the moon, wait for him to refuse because it doesn't include venus" was put forward early on and seemed a reasonable play to deal with the commie faggots of the UN & build support. While I wouldn't wholly count it out, I'm putting the odds of that being the case now around "Cleveland Browns Win the Superbowl" odds and currently he's a on the tack of "The fighting stops until I'm out of office and its not my problem anymore and maybe the temporary peace turns in to a sustained one. Ignoring such restive Slavic areas like "everyone bording Serbia" and Trannyniggera.

Which is extremely disappointing when Trump (rightfully) shits on Obama and then immediately does the same shit Obama did.

How could Ukraine attack Russian school children like that.
 
Have to remember a very large contingent of Trump supporters are a variation of "peace at all costs" in as far America is involved in it. Trump have to square them away and shut them up first and Putin demanding everything instead of taking the sweetheart deals is doing exactly that. Granted it's more on Putin not reading the room on American sentiment and less on Trump playing extra dimensional chess.

It's an issue of how people define peace. There's a vocal minority of people on the right that feel it's a great form of peace to just let Russia conquer what it wants while the US then cozies up to Russia as great superpowers. Whereas I think most people, including those on the right, just want some form of lasting peace for Ukraine and to not have Russia go around conquering what it likes.

As long as Trump doesn't define his version of peace for Ukraine it just kinda is whatever his fans want it to be (as they can fantasize it is whatever). Which is why it caused so much turmoil among the GOP when Trump identified Russia not taking the entirety of Ukraine as a 'concession', since now you start having it really be defined what Trump was expecting the outcome of the war to look like versus what many Americans may have expected.
 
US could realistically remove Zelensky if he became too much of an obstacle on the path to "peace" (sufficient appeasement for Putin to stop the war), but not Putin. Zelensky is far more vulnerable compared to Putin, and US has done plenty of shady shit in the past to not have this option on the table discussed behind closed doors somewhere. I find myself thinking that sometimes.
What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm not sure the modernday CIA has the skillset of the CIA of old, the CIA of Kermit 'Kim' Roosevelt jr. who was able to help draw together the landowners, clergy and merchants (plus underworld muscle) to overthrow the radical Mossadegh and restore the Shah of Iran (who fell substantially for alienating those same class categories in the late '70s and obviously he lacked the needed ruthlessness passing up several offers to assassinate Khomeini, including one from Saddam Hussein, who really respected the Shah). The present US administration is full of frankly incompetent people. It's less that there are some who might be over-sympathetic to Russia's false claims, it's more they're fuckups. Roosevelt exaggerated his role, but he was part of a competent and ruthless organisation. Whether new appointees are Obama era pantywaists or MAGA owning da libs retards, they don't have the old chaos magic.



Magyar Birds latest compilation of commie killing

The whole "Offer putin the moon, wait for him to refuse because it doesn't include venus" was put forward early on and seemed a reasonable play to deal with the commie faggots of the UN & build support. While I wouldn't wholly count it out, I'm putting the odds of that being the case now around "Cleveland Browns Win the Superbowl" odds and currently he's a on the tack of "The fighting stops until I'm out of office and its not my problem anymore and maybe the temporary peace turns in to a sustained one. Ignoring such restive Slavic areas like "everyone bording Serbia" and Trannyniggera.

Some Ukrainian wrote (I cannot recall where) that Trump is looking at it in a business sense as a project that just about meets the minimum standards, just. That means peace for four years, and then Justkilled DaPope Vance can blame Obama / Deep State when he's seeking the nomination, when hostilities inevitably restart. I think that after a while Putin might agree to a freeze, which would suit him as for occupation of part of the whole of another country, possession is nine tenths of the law. Something vaguely like that did come about after the javelins took the edge off the offensive of the little green men and the Donbabwe goons.
 
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I wish there were true isolationists, but everything is comped.
There are true isolationists under a Rand Paul umbrella

John McCain Warning on Rand Paul and Putin Resurfaces After Ukraine Vote | A

Former Rand Paul aide, pardoned by Trump, charged with funneling Russian money into 2016 election | A

Lolbertarianism is just a cursed pipeline through which would-be White nationalists are funneled in a faux-deradicalization effort so they can be deployed for further zionist gayops, like the Alt-Right [Rothbard] and Thielbux/BrAPtardism. It's classic controlled opposition with extra steps.
Russia/Israel with China only want the New Silk Road, and I find it frustrating whenever Josh talks about Zelenskyy as though he's the only jew with a stake in the unceasing Russian invasion of Europe as though he caused it. I trust actual American jews with progressive/hippie backgrounds more than I do any pseudo-Christian like Trump [and his (((administration)))] who kneels to Putin.
 
Some Ukrainian wrote (I cannot recall where) that Trump is looking at it in a business sense as a project that just about meets the minimum standards, just. That means peace for four years,
If we want to bring out the biggest Rainbow emmitters possible, even four years would give Europe time to restart their defense industry and Ukraine time to line up defense agreements with teeth. If there had been even a one year pause before now, that would have been valuable time for the US Army to finish their ordinance production upgrades.

The only issue with that is people are already "Is Ukraine still at war?" and the only country that would do any sort of rearming would be Russia as they stockpile everyhing they ran short on for when they try again.
To say nothing of with full sanctions on, The EU still sends nearly triple the economic activity to Russia than they send Aid to Ukraine. And a break in the fighting ain't going to change that for the better.
And that's not counting Turkey.

I'm not sure the modernday CIA has the skillset of the CIA of old, the CIA of Kermit 'Kim' Roosevelt jr. who was able to help draw together the landowners, clergy and merchants (plus underworld muscle) to overthrow the radical Mossadegh and restore the Shah of Iran (who fell substantially for alienating those same class categories in the late '70s and obviously he lacked the needed ruthlessness passing up several offers to assassinate Khomeini, including one from Saddam Hussein, who really respected the Shah). The present US administration is full of frankly incompetent people. It's less that there are some who might be over-sympathetic to Russia's false claims, it's more they're fuckups. Roosevelt exaggerated his role, but he was part of a competent and ruthless organisation. Whether new appointees are Obama era pantywaists or MAGA owning da libs retards, they don't have the old chaos magic.
I think you're underselling the CIA. They have very clearly turned Putin.

Think about it. Europe is continuing to let their arms industry rot and fail to spend on GDP. BOOM! Putin invades Ukraine and magically defense money appears, arms industry is spinning back up.
Sweden and Finland resist officially joining NATO for decades despite inducements? Putin invades Ukraine and they couldn't join NATO fast enough.
China might invade Taiwan? Russia now uses a a rusting fleet of pending enivronmental disasters to funnel cheap energy to china which keeps their population happy, so no need for a patriotic war to galvanize the people.
Hezbollah threatens the US's greatest ally? Asad over thrown as Russia watches and does nothing but bomb some hospitals.
Putin burns Russia's cold war armor reserves, ensuring that Russia will not be able to threaten Europe in the future.
He uses his added powers to make it so no one can question the pace of the replacement ICBM for their very nearly aged-out fleet.
the best part? By making Putin an asset, the US also gets control over Germany (well, as much control as Turkey will allow a foreign power).

So I don't want to hear this "the CIA has lost its touch" BS when Agent Putin is out there doing work of this quality for Uncle Sam.
 
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Well it's official, AGAIN? so soon?
https://www.thetimes.com/world/russ...-peace-but-sacred-war-may-never-end-nj63bvn9p/https://archive.ph/dY1aA
president Putin has announced a three-day ceasefire in Ukraine next week as the Kremlin insisted it was ready for peace talks “without preconditions”.
The temporary truce will take place on May 8-10, according to the Kremlin, which said Russia was ready to respond to any Ukrainian “violations” of it. The ceasefire would cover May 9, which Russia celebrates as Victory Day to mark the end of the Second World War.
“During this period, all military actions will cease. Russia believes that the Ukrainian side should follow this example,” the Kremlin said.


In response, President Zelensky of Ukraine said the world did not want to wait until May 8. “For some reason, everyone is supposed to wait for May 8 and only then have a ceasefire to ensure calm for Putin during the parade,” he said in his nightly video address.

“We value people’s lives and not parades. We believe that the world believes that there is no reason to wait for May 8. And the ceasefire should be not for a few days only to resume the killing afterwards.”
The Kremlin’s announcement effectively confirms there will not be a truce until the ceasefire takes effect, ruling out a peace deal in time for President Trump’s 100th day in office on Tuesday.


Trump, meanwhile, will continue to press for a permanent ceasefire, Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary, said. She added that he was increasingly frustrated with Putin and Zelensky, saying that both should come to the negotiating table to end the war.
President Trump said earlier he believed that his Ukrainian counterpart was ready to cede Crimea to Russia as part of any peace deal, as negotiations entered what Washington called a critical week.
“Oh, I think so,” Trump told reporters in Bedminster, New Jersey, when asked whether he thought President Zelensky was ready to “give up” the Black Sea peninsula which Russia seized in 2014 — despite the Ukrainian leader repeatedly saying he never would

Trump said he was “very disappointed” with Russian strikes on Ukraine
Ukraine would need to change its constitution to cede Crimea or any other land to Russia, which would require a national referendum.
Trump also stepped up pressure on President Putin, saying he should “stop shooting” and sign an agreement to end the war, which is the biggest in Europe since 1945.
When asked if he trusted Putin, he said “I’ll let you know in about two weeks”.

Putin told General Valery Gerasimov, right, that the success of the Kremlin’s army had brought “the rout of the neo-Nazi regime closer”
ALEXANDER KAZAKOV/SPUTNIK/KREMLIN/EPA
Trump’s comments came a day after he met Zelensky during the funeral of Pope Francis, breaking the ice after a major row between the US and Ukrainian leaders at the White House in February.
But as the pair huddled this weekend at St Peter’s Basilica to discuss peace in Ukraine, Putin spoke of war in a video call with his top general.
Hailing what he claimed was the complete eviction of Ukrainian forces from western Russia’s Kursk region, Putin told General Valery Gerasimov that the success of the Russian army had brought “the rout of the neo-Nazi regime closer”. His comments were made shortly after a Russian ballistic missile killed at least 12 people in Kyiv early on Thursday.
440e07e7bec22755dd63c1bf0ad3db8695371a49.png

Putin’s false depiction of Ukraine as a Nazi state was nothing new and neither was Russia’s bombardment of Kyiv. Yet the tone of his remarks and the timing of the attack jarred with Moscow’s comments in recent days about being “ready for a deal”, albeit with what Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, called some “fine tuning”.
“There is currently insufficient pressure on Russia from the world to end this war,” Zelensky said on Sunday. Even Trump, who has favoured Putin more than Zelensky, mused in a social media post that the Russian leader might be planning to continue the war and that he may be “just tapping me along”.


The US president might be right. Trump’s peace proposals fail to meet several of Russia’s key demands, including a permanent ban on Nato membership for Kyiv, limits on the size of its armed forces and the removal of Zelensky’s government, according to a copy of the document seen by Reuters.
Although under the proposals the United States would recognise Russian rule in Crimea, which the Kremlin annexed in 2014, and leave Moscow in de facto control of a swathe of Ukrainian land, Putin might be hard pressed to convince his people that the dreadful cost of the war was worth such relatively meagre returns. He has described the war as a “sacred” battle for Russia’s future, rather than a land grab.
Yet even if Putin is preparing to halt his invasion, there are no indications that he has given up on his long-term plans for Ukraine, said Fyodor Lukyanov, the head of Russia’s Council on Foreign and Defence Policy think tank.
“[Putin’s] aims have not gone anywhere, but the means and the schedule can be changed. A single [military] campaign is not always enough to achieve goals — this is well known from history,” he told The Times.
Lukyanov, who moderates an annual foreign policy discussion with the Russian leader, said that no peace deal could be perfect and there was no guarantee that it would not eventually fail to satisfy either Russia or Ukraine. “And then the fighting will resume,” he said.


Lavrov said on Monday that international recognition of Russian rule in Crimea, plus the other four regions in eastern and southern Ukraine that are under Moscow’s control was “imperative” for any peace deal.
Trump’s reported peace plan said only that Washington would legally recognise Russia’s ownership of Crimea, while de facto accepting its control over the Russian-occupied parts of the Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia regions.
“We remain open to negotiations. But the ball is not in our court. So far, Kyiv has not demonstrated its ability to negotiate,” Lavrov told Brazilian media. He also said that Russia still aimed to “demilitarise and denazify” Ukraine.
Zelensky has said Ukraine will only sit down for talks on territory with Moscow after a total ceasefire across the entire 600-mile front.


In Kyiv, it is hard to find anyone who believes that Putin will ever abandon his attempt to destroy Ukraine as an independent country.
Three people were killed on Sunday in Russian airstrikes on Kostiantynivka in the Donetsk region, while a man was killed and a 14-year-old girl was injured in Pavlohrad, a city in the Dnipropetrovsk region.
Lavrov also told CBS that Russia would continue to target civilian infrastructure if it believed it was being used for military purposes.
Dmytro Kuleba, the Ukrainian foreign minister until last year, sought to dampen hopes that Trump could achieve a quick end to the conflict.
“We are not even close to real negotiations on the end of the war,” he said, adding that a ceasefire was still as far away as when Trump came to power in January. “And in terms of ending the war, we are where we were last autumn,” he told Ukrainian media.


Zelensky is also likely to encounter resistance within Ukraine if he signs a deal that is seen as bad for the country. Robert “Madyar” Brovdi, the commander of a Ukraine drone brigade, has warned that “a million” disgruntled soldiers will return from the front to cause “trouble” for Kyiv if they believe Zelensky is acting against “the interests of the Ukrainian people.” He also predicted that the war would not be over by the new year.
Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, warned again that Washington could walk away from peace negotiations.
“We have to [determine] whether this is an endeavour that we want to continue to be involved in,” he told NBC. “There are reasons to be optimistic, but there are reasons to be realistic… We’re close, but we’re not close enough.”

Trump’s efforts to broker a deal between Ukraine and Russia were entering a “critical week”, Rubio said.
Georgy Bovt, a Russian political analyst, said that while Trump may believe the positions of Kyiv and Moscow were getting closer, “in reality they are far apart”. “Even Moscow’s proposal to resume direct negotiations with Ukraine, without preconditions, does not mean anything yet, since negotiations can be resumed and then conducted for years without any result,” he told Moscow’s BFM radio station.
Putin could also face a backlash if he ends the fighting on terms that are seen as unacceptable to hardliners. “[Trump’s plan] suggests that Russia simply surrenders, and Ukraine, in addition to Nato, would receive everything it wanted, except for actual control over Crimea and the already liberated territories,” wrote Kirill Fyodorov, a pro-war Russian blogger with half a million followers, referring to the areas of eastern and southern Ukraine that are under Russia’s control.
However, Lukyanov said that Putin would be reluctant to wreck relations with Trump because he was looking at a wider picture than just the war. He said: “Putin is interested in co-operation with Trump not so much because of Ukraine, but as an element of participating in the general process of global change. Some level of mutual understanding with the US is important.”
Tatiana Stanovaya, a Russian political analyst who has long argued that Putin will continue the war until he has subjugated Ukraine, said she now believed he could agree to a peace deal.
“However, Putin has not renounced his broader objectives in Ukraine. Any agreement would be a tactical manoeuvre — an investment in a transitional period during which Ukraine would be forced to cease resistance,” she wrote on X.
Oh yeah it's great patriotic victory day or something, sure would be embarrassing to have that disrupted/overshadowed, again.
 
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Oh yeah it's great patriotic victory day or something, sure would be embracing to have that disrupted/overshadowed, again.
Victory Day is personally and ideologically important to me. Seeing this corrupt fuck attempt to milk it when he lies about everything is just infuriating.
 
Invading Taiwan would be just as harmful and pointless as invading Ukraine.
Chip fabs are going up in smoke the second a Chinese conscripts boots hit sand.
That's true but I don't think the Chinese or Xi see it that way and the last decade has not taught me that optimism is the safe bet. Absent some event that completely changes the CCP's thought process on the matter, I would bet money that Taiwan will be invaded.

And that scares the shit out of me.
 
Oh yeah it's great patriotic victory day or something
The Anniversary of the day Russia defeated the ally they had invaded Poland with.

Xi is 100% going to move on Taiwan in 2027 or 2028. They are rehearsing it right now.

However, we also sold Taiwan F18s and Harpoon missiles.
They will probably try some sort of power move, but China woudn't have the force projection to invade Taiwan.
They can't launch massed missile strikes on them either without provocation or the CCP leadership would be eaten alive from the inside due to public outrage at killing "fellow Chinese".

Invading Taiwan would be just as harmful and pointless as invading Ukraine.
Chip fabs are going up in smoke the second a Chinese conscripts boots hit sand.
Boots hitting sand nothing. The Taiwan strait would turn into a grave yard. China lacks blue-water capabilities to launch any sort of meaningful assault from anywhere other than their coast and modern anti-shipping missiles would make that a turkey shoot, to say nothing of Taiwan being the origin for a lot that drone tech being used in Ukraine.
 
Xi is 100% going to move on Taiwan in 2027 or 2028. They are rehearsing it right now.

However, we also sold Taiwan F18s and Harpoon missiles.
Is that why Trump hopes he can butter up to Russia? To try and swing Russia away from China? I find this hard to believe, considering Russia is pretty much owned by China in many aspects of their economy and society now. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong or told otherwise.
 
The Anniversary of the day Russia defeated the ally they had invaded Poland with.


They will probably try some sort of power move, but China woudn't have the force projection to invade Taiwan.
They can't launch massed missile strikes on them either without provocation or the CCP leadership would be eaten alive from the inside due to public outrage at killing "fellow Chinese".


Boots hitting sand nothing. The Taiwan strait would turn into a grave yard. China lacks blue-water capabilities to launch any sort of meaningful assault from anywhere other than their coast and modern anti-shipping missiles would make that a turkey shoot, to say nothing of Taiwan being the origin for a lot that drone tech being used in Ukraine.
Your take on China's force projection may be true but you're being incredibly optimistic about the CCPs tolerance for killing Taiwanese.
As we've seen with Ukraine, and to a lesser extent the US Civil War, it only takes a few harsh battles to throw any notions of Brotherhood out the window.
 
Victory Day is personally and ideologically important to me. Seeing this corrupt fuck attempt to milk it when he lies about everything is just infuriating.
Putin's regime absolutely desecrated it, I can't look at May 9th paraphernalia without wincing.
From a day to honor sacrifices of our ancestors and contemplate lessons we paid a terrible price for, it turned into absolute debauchery of unhinged chauvinism to justify aggression, further unnecessary deaths and ironically fascism. Seeing how blind people are to this deception makes me want to cry, as this disgusting regime of thieves drapes itself in heroism and tragedy of the past to conceal their crimes.
 
Putin's regime absolutely desecrated it, I can't look at May 9th paraphernalia without wincing.
From a day to honor sacrifices of our ancestors and contemplate lessons we paid a terrible price for, it turned into absolute debauchery of unhinged chauvinism to justify aggression, further unnecessary deaths and ironically fascism. Seeing how blind people are to this deception makes me want to cry, as this disgusting regime of thieves drapes itself in heroism and tragedy of the past to conceal their crimes.
There was nothing to "desecrate" in the first place. This "holiday" is vile and vicious at its core, and it always has been.

It marks victory of one criminal regime over another, and there's a reason why the nigger Stalin wasn't throwing parades until he died - he wanted to sweep the war under the rug, make people move on, for he was scared of the veterans, who could put two by two together and realize exactly who shared the blame for millions of lives lost in endless meatgrinders.

The red crooks were murdering people of Russia long before Hitler came to power (whom they helped gain said power), they kept doing that after the war.

Russia has been perpetually cucked for over a century and this concept of celebrating bringing victory to their own slavers is just another humiliation ritual that perpetuates the Soviet system and its dirty methods of control. Because the honest answer to a question of why this "holiday" is a thing would be that their ancestors fought not for muh "peaceful skies over our heads", but to protect and cement the illegitimate Soviet state that to this day murders, destroys, genocides, suppresses, twists and enslaves traditions, people, the very point of being. THIS is the true tragedy.
 
There was nothing to "desecrate" in the first place. This "holiday" is vile and vicious at its core, and it always has been.

It marks victory of one criminal regime over another, and there's a reason why the nigger Stalin wasn't throwing parades until he died - he wanted to sweep the war under the rug, make people move on, for he was scared of the veterans, who could put two by two together and realize exactly who shared the blame for millions of lives lost in endless meatgrinders.

The red crooks were murdering people of Russia long before Hitler came to power (whom they helped gain said power), they kept doing that after the war.

Russia has been perpetually cucked for over a century and this concept of celebrating bringing victory to their own slavers is just another humiliation ritual that perpetuates the Soviet system and its dirty methods of control. Because the honest answer to a question of why this "holiday" is a thing would be that their ancestors fought not for muh "peaceful skies over our heads", but to protect and cement the illegitimate Soviet state that to this day murders, destroys, genocides, suppresses, twists and enslaves traditions, people, the very point of being. THIS is the true tragedy.
That's sort of the conclusion I've come to over time as well. It's just that what it purports to be and what it really is is such a shocking juxtaposition... Shit like this is why living here feels like being in a loony bin. Nothing is genuine, like some surreal, bad fucking play.
 
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