Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[HalHalliday]

but there are some real productivity boosts to be gained.

I think I depend on the segment you're in. A few posts up, when I made a comment about matrix mul and LLMs - it wasn't random. It was the simplest thing I could ask it in the segment I'm in. And I can tell you, no junior programmer would write a mat4 mul with loops. When you start asking it more complicated things, or even just use of APIs like DirectX, etc., it will do the most convoluted solutions imaginable or straight up invent things that don't exist - and no junior would do that.

Now, I get why. It doesn't have enough training data, or good training data. And it probably never will.
And it's not just rendering - friends from the banking segment tell me similar things; it can't even do basic stuff well. Not to mention proprietary tech - forget that entirely.

Now, that doesn't mean it's useless for everything. As I said in your cropped part of my response - for boilerplate, some configs, small corrections, reformatting, etc. - sure. I'm sure that for segments it has a lot of data, even low quality ones, it can do stuff. Which, let's be frank, is mostly web stuff. That's fine. I'm glad someone is getting their money's worth, but the web world is just one segment of the whole industry. A large one, I grant you that, but it's by far not everything.

And this should be obvious to everyone by simple observation: the LLM is to replace only programmers. Not project managers, lawyers, doctors, accountants, C-suites, investment bankers, clerks, researchers, etc. Only programmers. Strange.

Yes, it can do some things. Some well enough, most poorly.

I also think there's a lot of pushback against it because it's so overblown by VCs. It's not insecurity when your manager starts pushing for AI everywhere because he read about it on LinkedIn and it doesn't do what everyone is screaming it can. If it did, that would be great. Reality is different.

Only practical use I’ve found for LLMs is a spell check.

Oh, and btw if micro-pajeet couldn't get worse:
"Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella revealed that the company now uses Artificial Intelligence to write between 20% and 30% of the code powering its software."
"At its Q3 financials last year, Sundar Pichai revealed that 25% of new code at Google is AI-generated."
Article at tomshardware.com | Archive



"Microsoft is seeing better results with AI-generated Python code than C++, remarked Satya Nadella."
Thank you, chief street-shitter, very cool, I wonder why that is.

EDIT:

I wonder how bad LLMs will be for open source. We already see constant fake bug reports, makes you wonder how much garbage code will get through. Corpos are all in. OSS might have better defenses, at least in the more tyrannical projects. But the broader ecosystem? Idk.

 

[Redeemer]

Honestly? For over a year now this claim has actually become a bigger red flag to me in hiring than vibe coding stuff. It's nearly always a signifier for insecurity, and people who will waste company money doing things the hard way / need to constantly be reminded that time equals money and economic factors matter.
Not referring to you specifically and I understand the crimes junior devs commit using AI is disgusting, but there are some real productivity boosts to be gained.

Enjoy the race to the bottom to destroy all of your company's talent.

You are going to fire all the people who "waste their time" with "useless crap" like "actually understanding the API they are calling", or "knowing what their code does."

Writing the code has never ever been the job. The job is and always has been understanding the code. The AI cannot understand it for you, and it can't take responsibility for you.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Enjoy the race to the bottom to destroy all of your company's talent.

You are going to fire all the people who "waste their time" with "useless crap" like "actually understanding the API they are calling", or "knowing what their code does."

Writing the code has never ever been the job. The job is and always has been understanding the code. The AI cannot understand it for you, and it can't take responsibility for you.

They will enjoy it. Being able to write code without the time and expense of understanding it isn't an unexpected side effect. It's the entire goal.

 

[Slav Power]

If you want a Linux distro that just works and is compatible to everything, I recommend Debian. If you used Microsoft Windows for too long and it gave you Stockholm syndrome, I heard Ubuntu/Mint has a lot of that same nonsense you got used to.

Just recommend Mint.
-Debian has badly outdated packages, a somewhat janky installer and no live environment to try out before installing. Good for servers, but not for desktop use.
-Ubuntu is cancer with shit like Snap and comes with GNOME by default, and don't even bother with flavors like Kubuntu, no need to overcomplicate it.
-Mint is Ubuntu, but unfucked, and the very first flavor you're directed to is the Cinammon one which emulates Windows 7's UI well.

The "beginner friendly = bad" myth is peddled by Dunning-Kruger Arch retards. If you install Mint, you can rice it up and fuck it up like any other Linux distro, but you get such good "just works" defaults that you won't get burnt on your first Linux experience.

Nigger, how the fuck is Windows hard to install? You run the installer, click Next a few times and that is it.

Why do Linux tards still claim Windows is hard to install? Confused by things being straightforward when you usually have to edit cfg files and read twenty MAN pages to do shit?

That's not what it's about. Both Windows and Mint are trivial to install, but 99% of normies you're trying to peddle Linux to as this great alternative to Windows are such retarded nigger cattles that they never installed it themselves, have no idea that they could do a clean wipe and reinstall it fresh if it becomes completely fucked, and that they wouldn't need to remember their license key as Windows would automatically pull it for them after reinstalling the same version.

Those people are so tech illiterate they'll bitch and moan endlessly about fag flags in the search bar and getting MSM blasted in their face from the retarded weather widget, but will never consider the idea that maybe it can be disabled. If they did, they'd just right click on the taskbar and quickly figure it out on their own. Imagine if Ubuntu's GNOME came with some retarded taskbar widgets added by default that no one asked for but Canonical added them anyways, and people would bitch and moan about them as if they were forever forced to be exposed to them, but all that it would take to remove them is to right click on them and click "Remove". But even that is too mentally challenging for them.

That's the level of tech literacy we're talking about here, and you're expecting them to install Linux?

This is the biggest mistake that every Linuxfag makes when promoting Linux as an alternative to Windows. Something that's seemingly as trivial for any techie as downloading an ISO, Rufus, plugging in a pendrive, setting it up, then rebooting into it by mashing F11 during boot is rocket science to those people. They're incapable of using their prebuilt computers, let alone fixing them in the most basic of ways.

 

[Redeemer]

They will enjoy it. Being able to write code without the time and expense of understanding it isn't an unexpected side effect. It's the entire goal.

I would argue that losing
the ability to understand is an unintended side effect, or at least is going to be. Managers and execs think they get a free lunch with this stuff, but they are actually making a tradeoff. And they're going to be so far off on one side of that tradeoff that when the bugs reach a critical mass, there will be no saving them.

 

[El Goblina]

they're going to be so far off on one side of that tradeoff that when the bugs reach a critical mass, there will be no saving them

The worse second-order consequence that I see is that the youth will be discouraged from learning to code. Downsize dev team > "leverage" AI > AI breaks > not enough skilled team to fix

mashing F11 during boot

You've obviously been doing this since the BIOS days, and you're not wrong, but the less speedrunner-tier solution is to tell your OS to reboot into whatever. Shift-left-click on "Restart" from the Power menu in Windows. "Advanced Boot options" is what Micropajeet calls it elsewhere, IIRC.

 

[AmpleApricots]

it's more like "really nice autocomplete". Gives me a bit of a boost, but doesn't do the job by itself.

Yes, it's also a quite capable interactive documentation browser/google. Not everything it'll say is true but so is not everything true you find on google. Just need to remain critical and know the limitations, that's really all. Also most LLMs, while not good at writing code themselves, are pretty good at putting it into words step by step. That powered me through quite a few completely uncommented source files already. Again, it's not like I wouldn't be able to understand them, this is just a lot quicker.

Linux also lets you select boot devices etc. via efibootmgr.

 

[Maldavius Figtree]

Writing the code has never ever been the job. The job is and always has been understanding the code. The AI cannot understand it for you, and it can't take responsibility for you.

Exactly. I do enjoy AI as an advanced autocomplete, I do enjoy when it occasionally takes off a huge chunk of the lame part of the job (writing code), and sometimes it's useful when learning new things.
Whining about a race to the bottom and whatever is just that, insecure whining.

It's like back in the day when people were complaining that Google turns you dumb because you don't think for yourself, and that stackoverflow is horrible because people will just copypaste code.
It's a new tool, it's helpful for some things. Yeah, it can be abused. But creating a strawman of the worst way to use AI and then tearing it down is a waste of time.

I don't care. Google didn't take my job, Stackoverflow didn't take my job, cheap offshore labor didn't take my job, AI won't take my job. I will keep employing new tools as they become available.
There will always be idiots abusing them to dig their own grave. Let them set their own money on fire. "AI can do it cheaper" okay good luck bye. Though I do feel for the people suffering under those shitty managers right now.

It's not a silver bullet. But it's strange and wonderful tech.
If you cannot come up with one single way in which AI could improve your workflow, it betrays a lack of imagination, and, far worse, a boomeristic stubbornness in insisting that new things always have to be horrible with no single upside. Those people are no fun working with.

 

[Ferryman]

The job is and always has been understanding the code. The AI cannot understand it for you, and it can't take responsibility for you.

You would be slack-jawed at how much vulnerability AI slop introduces into perfectly functional systems. Wringing my hands like a happy merchant at how much shit's going to need to be fixed in the coming years

 

[Cognitive Decline]

"Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella revealed that the company now uses Artificial Intelligence to write between 20% and 30% of the code powering its software."

The actual quote from the article is this

“I’d say maybe 20%, 30% of the code that is inside of our repos today and some of our projects are probably all written by software,”

The CEO of the second biggest tech company in the world, who orchestrated the monumental PR blitz behind LLMs with OpenAI, and who pays out the nose for his army of software professionals, can't give a more precise answer than this? 30 is 50% higher than 20, and "some of our projects are probably all written by software" is almost unintelligible. There are projects that are "probably" "all" written by "software"?

Actually, the part of the talk where Zuck pries this out of him is here: https://youtu.be/FZ-RZ0dKO8o?t=2632. How the fuck does he not have a crisp answer to this? So he can't say how much his favorite new technology is replacing his company's greatest expense? Zuck's reply is even more annoying: "in the next year probably, y,know, I dunno, maybe half the development is gonna be done by AI as opposed to people".

Pure BS.

 

[geckogoy]

-Debian has badly outdated packages, a somewhat janky installer and no live environment to try out before installing. Good for servers, but not for desktop use.

The packages are pretty much fine now thats old info, I'd say 9/10 usability only because LMDE exists which is better

 

[Nobody Important]

The packages are pretty much fine now thats old info, I'd say 9/10 usability only because LMDE exists which is better

I have it on excellent authority that using Debian makes you gay.

 

[DavidS877]

I have it on excellent authority that using Debian makes you gay.

Can confirm. As long as liking women makes me gay.

 

[Slav Power]

I have it on excellent authority that using Debian makes you gay.

It's creator was a cuck that killed himself so I guess that's about right.

 

[Lard Shart]

It's like back in the day when people were complaining that Google turns you dumb because you don't think for yourself, and that stackoverflow is horrible because people will just copypaste code.
It's a new tool, it's helpful for some things. Yeah, it can be abused. But creating a strawman of the worst way to use AI and then tearing it down is a waste of time.

Agreed.
The usage of LLM's doesn't make programmers produce worse code. It just allows bad programmers to create more bad code in less time. It already happened to a lesser extent by blatantly copy pasting code from stack overflow. Don't blame the tool, blame the user.

 

[Itchy Hemorrhoids]

The productivity boosts from using LLMs are outweighed by the hallucinations, non-sequiturs, and babbling that are part and parcel of using an LLM to do anything. That doesn't mean that LLMs will forever be useless, of course, but at present anyone who is dumb enough to use them for logic or symbolic processing tasks is basically dropping trou, slathering their butthole up with KY jelly, and hanging a sign over it reading "Please Deposit AIDS Here".

Just the tip?

I use llms to make images and memes. I don’t trust it for much else, but a little teenie weenie bit of code here and there is fine, but yes, you still must edit and understand everything.

 

[Cherenkovblue]

Just the tip?

I use llms to make images and memes. I don’t trust it for much else, but a little teenie weenie bit of code here and there is fine, but yes, you still must edit and understand everything.

Images and memes are pretty much all it's good for... but speaking of which...

Oh, and btw if micro-pajeet couldn't get worse:
"Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella revealed that the company now uses Artificial Intelligence to write between 20% and 30% of the code powering its software."
"At its Q3 financials last year, Sundar Pichai revealed that 25% of new code at Google is AI-generated."

...someone at MS might want to yank this retarded bindi's chain before she really screws the pooch for the whole company. Reason: the United States Copyright Office has taken the stance that the use of prompted LLMs, without more, does not cross the threshold of originality necessary to create protectable expression, and hence works incorporating AI-generated materials are not protectable. Can you imagine someone being so fucking retarded as to admit you use shit that will cost you your copyright protection? Even Balmer wasn't this stupid.

 

[Maldavius Figtree]

It just allows bad programmers to create more bad code in less time.

With all I said in favor of using AI out of the way: I really do feel for all devs currently suffering under horrible management that thinks their minions will be redundant tomorrow and expect 10x more output.
It's gonna be real fucking funny when all of this explodes. Pajeet Silicon Valley infiltration multiplied by AI shit code is going to bring it all down, and those that know their stuff will be even more highly valued later.

 

[Autism Contractor]

It's gonna be real fucking funny when all of this explodes

Silence niglit stocks must go up until I retire, I don't care how many pajeets we have to burn.

 

[Ferryman]

Reason: the United States Copyright Office has taken the stance that the use of prompted LLMs, without more, does not cross the threshold of originality necessary to create protectable expression, and hence works incorporating AI-generated materials are not protectable.

> Jeet corner cutting might accidentally lead to Microsoft products becoming FOSS through non-copyrightability
We really do live in the most blessed timeline.