Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Suchomimus has hot new video of S-300 RADARs getting droned in Crimea.
Nothing too ground breaking except it seems to be more marine-lauched drones and further evidence that Russia getting hollowed out by Ukraine.

The US aid just announced is hardly transformative in the sense of what it is, a few F-16 airframes and some small projects, but this does end the idea that the US will just leave Ukraine in lurch. Perhaps it might bounce Putin into making a reasonable offer regarding the pause peace that was under consideration, but realistically given that militarily unfit men are sent on every sort of jalopy to the front, and over 47 injured in drone attacks in Kharkiv (original link), this war is continuing for now.
If Putin can't bring Ukraine to an end he can spin as a win, he is done politically. He will not survive the knives of his friends, never mind the barbarians at the gates of the Duma. Thus he gives no fucks, and will fight to the last Russian citizen that isn't him.

Additonally hearing wonk the F-16 replenishment deal had been in the works for weeks to months. It was held back as one part of the carrot to get Z-man to play ball, the other part keeping Russia from chimping out. The agreement being the US would send F-16 replenishment package once peace negotiations were done - looks like they they're done so new aid may now flow.
 
so late and gay with extra steps
It's really easy to wear the rose tinted glasses of now and think it was rather silly the Americans didn't stick their dick into Europe sooner. But it needs to be pointed out that up until 1917 the position of the USA on Europe was that them killing each other was better then them killing us. US relations with all European nations were at best cordial (like with Russia) in situations where there were no competing interests or threat of war. Where there were competing interests (Britain, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Germany, Portugal) the US position was "we are going to end up at war with at least one or two of these countries" at any given point in time.

So Europeans slaughtering each other at industrial scale was an unalloyed good. Pull up a chair, pass the popcorn and watch the retard fight.

Many people in the USA during the 20s and 30s saw the US intervention on the side of the French and British as a massive mistake. Propping up the decrepit husks of rivals the USA had been on and off again at war or nearly at war with for a century. When World War 2 rolled around it was again unclear what the US interest was in Europe. Fortunately for the Allies, Japan made the interest interesting and Germany decided to back them up on it.
 
WWI wasn't America's war beyond selling shit to the euros so they can continue to kill each other. England had to spend years propagandazing, breaking naval and espionage laws to get Wilson to have the United States enter the war.
To be fair to the English the Germans weren't exactly helping their case with various glow-ops inside the neutral USA, and the Zimmerman Telegram, while illegally intercepted by the British was still a matter of strategic concern to the USA considering we had outright occupied Veracruz for a short while in 1914, and the Pancho Villa expedition had recently ended with US and Mexican troops shooting at each other with a body count on both sides. There's also the fact its generally in bad taste to seek allies against someone who isn't involved in your war, which the USA definitely wasn't at the time. And to cap things off, Woodrow Wilson had told the Germans in no uncertain terms that if they resumed unrestricted submarine warfare we would join the war on the UK's side, and they did so fully believing they could starve the UK into submission via loss of food imports before the USA could meaningfully intervene. Call it what you like, but the Germans blundered into it fully of their own accord, and I've as much sympathy for them as I do for Napoleon III when Otto von Bismarck suckered him into an unwinnable war in 1870.

That is also of course not getting into their policies towards their occupied territories, which while not quite on par with the later Nazi brutality was definitely the inspiration for such. Don't forget that it was the Germans who were the first to resort to gassing entire trench lines, too. The French and British had earlier deployed tear gas bombardments in a limited fashion to see how well it worked, but after it displayed limited effect they abandoned the whole gas warfare concept until the Germans started using chlorine against them.

Not saying the UK didn't do lots of shenanigans, but god damn did the Germans do everything they could to hurt their case. Had they been even slightly less retarded we might have managed to avoid the whole thing, but apparently that's asking too much of the Ewiger Deutschlander.

But it needs to be pointed out that up until 1917 the position of the USA on Europe was that them killing each other was better then them killing us.
Europe Declares War.webp
While technically satire, it does a good job summarizing the state of affairs from oh... the Fall of Rome until 1945. The Europeans endlessly engaged in various bloody wars amongst each other, and the USA had little inclination to get involved unless people made the mistake of getting us involved. Which we then did so on our terms and not Europe's for the obvious reason of the Europeans all wanting us to thanklessly die as proxies for them (see: Montgomery's treatment of the Canadians in WW2).

And now, the thread tax:
https://archive.ph/qCzua

Europe: Show you’re serious about Ukraine by tightening sanctions on Russia​

Article that goes into detail on European purchases from Russia. It isn't just oil and gas they're buying, but steel and other metals as well.

1746243465677.webp
Also looks like the F-16 package is a hell of a lot bigger than anyone might have thought.
 
Also looks like the F-16 package is a hell of a lot bigger than anyone might have thought.
Still standing on my "4th year being decisive" theory of great power wars. If Russia doesn't wrap this up by the fall, they risk entering the 5th year of a Great Power War, and that is when things tend to fall apart.
 
IDK. They can still hammer the "More Mobliks" button a lot longer than Ukraine.
Ukraine has not really been hammering that button though. Part of the problem front a strategic standpoint. But in general Ukraine has not engaged in a full scale mobilization or draft.

More broadly though Russia's constraint is less manpower and more economic. They can't sustain this tempo indefinitely and everyone knows it.
 
Another drone warfare milestone reached.
https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1918582188418752918
archive
As per Russian sources, yesterday evening, a Ukrainian unmanned surface vessel armed with an R-73 air-to-air missile shot down a Russian Su-30 naval fighter roughly 50 km west of Novorossiysk—marking the first time in history that a military aircraft has been downed by an unmanned maritime drone.
 
Ukraine has not really been hammering that button though. Part of the problem front a strategic standpoint. But in general Ukraine has not engaged in a full scale mobilization or draft.

More broadly though Russia's constraint is less manpower and more economic. They can't sustain this tempo indefinitely and everyone knows it.
Yep. According to that Fortune link I posted interest rates are 21% and possibly flying up to 29% soon, even though the Kremlin says they've only got a mere 9% inflation. That's not sustainable at all, and I'd love to see the pot of borscht they've cooked up inside their books.
 
Since I've stepped on some rather long and sensitive toes.
Let me stomp down on them a bit more.
The US was late to the world wars because both had been going on before the US joined them.
For instance by the time Patton go to the Kassarine pass the battle for Stalingrad had already been going on for 4 months.
The prevailing narrative and the one Trump will give you is that those wars where crusades for democracy. But the US didn't join those wars out of ideological zeal. That makes it's self image in relation to those wars fake and thus gay.
Hence the US was late and gay to both world wars.
 
Since I've stepped on some rather long and sensitive toes.
Let me stomp down on them a bit more.
The US was late to the world wars because both had been going on before the US joined them.
For instance by the time Patton go to the Kassarine pass the battle for Stalingrad had already been going on for 4 months.
The prevailing narrative and the one Trump will give you is that those wars where crusades for democracy. But the US didn't join those wars out of ideological zeal. That makes it's self image in relation to those wars fake and thus gay.
Hence the US was late and gay to both world wars.
Weren't our wars until the Euros made it our wars. You say we were late, we say we were dragged into a brawl on the other end of the street against our will.

Also, it wasn't Patton at Kasserine but Lloyd Fredendall, so terrible at his job you could say he was the very model of a modern major-general.
 
Absolutely kino.

And now, the thread tax:
https://archive.ph/qCzua
Article that goes into detail on European purchases from Russia. It isn't just oil and gas they're buying, but steel and other metals as well.
More of the US' greatest NATO allies continuing to fund the threat they demand the US spend hundreds of billions to fight while they couch their aid in loans.

The steel and iron is significantly less galling than the hydrocarbons. Its not only much smaller but the profit on it much smaller. Hydrocarbons are almost pure profit and pumps/refineries can't just be shutdown and restarted at will like you can with a mine or low-grade refinery. Grandma also doesn't freeze if the sheetmetal plant has to shutdown for a couple months

IDK. They can still hammer the "More Mobliks" button a lot longer than Ukraine.
Kinda. They are hammering the "bumpkin moblik" button pretty hard because if they start sending guys from Moscow it'll start to matter.

If they weren't having manpower issues, they wouldn't have needed to import 10,000 norks.

Ukraine is also in a defensive fight for its existence, and post-war would be bordered primarily by nations it wouldn't need to overly concerned with and has limited geopolitical engagements it is required to support. Russia needs remain strong enough after Ukraine to fend off China, the US, and other rivals like the Finnish and the Baltic "let us show you much much we liked communism" alliance as well as support its new vassals in Africa.
That is, Ukraine can go to the point of collapse and if they get a NATO membership out of it, it won't matter because they'll be able to take as long as they want to recover.
Russia can't go all in or risk it might find itself in a defensive war for its continued existence, or at the very least discover those new foreign sources of wealth are gone again.


Still standing on my "4th year being decisive" theory of great power wars. If Russia doesn't wrap this up by the fall, they risk entering the 5th year of a Great Power War, and that is when things tend to fall apart.
I don't know that you can really call it a great power war. Dramatic events like Kursk asside, Russia largely gets to dictate the pace of the war. Its more than a low-intensity "Peacekeeping" action, but its not to peer levels.

I think a reasonable data point would be the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and US involvement in Vietnam.
The USSR was able to keep its deployment in Afghanistan going for a decade, even with Afghanistan getting outside aid.
Now true it was utterly ruinous for them and set the stage for the fall of the USSR and the dark times of the 90s, but they ran for much longer than 5 years.
The US committed vast resources to Vietnam and had a limited draft, and that went on well over a decade.

But admittedly neither of those map very well to current. In Afghanistan the opposition never really held territory and there was no armor-on-armor clashes. In Vietnam there was a significant trailing off as the conflict was progressively handed over the Vietnamese.

Since I've stepped on some rather long and sensitive toes.
Let me stomp down on them a bit more.
The US was late to the world wars because both had been going on before the US joined them.
For instance by the time Patton go to the Kassarine pass the battle for Stalingrad had already been going on for 4 months.
The prevailing narrative and the one Trump will give you is that those wars where crusades for democracy. But the US didn't join those wars out of ideological zeal. That makes it's self image in relation to those wars fake and thus gay.
Hence the US was late and gay to both world wars.
Sorry I missed where you posted how much of France & continental Europe in general was liberated before the US joined. Round numbers is fine, percentage or area, you don't have to be too precise. If you need to wait for the call to prayer to stop broadcasting before you can concentrate I understand.
 
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Weren't our wars until the Euros made it our wars. You say we were late, we say we were dragged into a brawl on the other end of the street against our will.

Also, it wasn't Patton at Kasserine but Lloyd Fredendall, so terrible at his job you could say he was the very model of a modern major-general.
This isn't a where they Americas wars or not.
I'm just saying that the US joined those wars after they had been going on for several years.
Then said that they where having a crusade against -isms and for democracy.
Like there hadn't been a war against -isms and for democracy going on for several years at that point.
Just like how Trump declaring WWII victory day (ignoring the Pacific front) and WWI victory day now, 80 years and century after those wars ended, is late and gay.
I'm not saying the US didn't hold up two fronts on opposite sides of the world, bankrolled the whole affair or freed France. But frankly bringing up those unrelated points is frankly well gay.
 
This isn't a where they Americas wars or not.
I'm just saying that the US joined those wars after they had been going on for several years.
Then said that they where having a crusade against -isms and for democracy.
Like there hadn't been a war against -isms and for democracy going on for several years at that point.
Just like how Trump declaring WWII victory day (ignoring the Pacific front) and WWI victory day now, 80 years and century after those wars ended, is late and gay.
I'm not saying the US didn't hold up two fronts on opposite sides of the world, bankrolled the whole affair or freed France. But frankly bringing up those unrelated points is frankly well gay.
I'm still not seeing where you've listed how much of France or any European country was liberated before the US involvement. It must be a very big number if you're saying the US involvement was late and gay. Surely the rest of the Allies were turning the tide in a huge way before the US was involved.
Because if that wasn't the case, you'd just be acting the bitch sniping at the the country that bailed you out.

Substantial portion of France was free from French rule.
Based.
 
Surely the rest of the Allies were turning the tide in a huge way before the US was involved.
Well the Battle for Stalingrad started before the US sent in troops with operation Torch. The destruction of army group B being what most historians consider to be the turning point of WWII in the West.
The axis would had already lost the war by the time the US joined in.
The Japs attack the US and others because it needed to expand the war in order to keep their war in China going.
The Germans where bogging down in the soviet union and had just lost the second battle of El Alamein right before operation Torch.
The Italians, well couldn't even take Greece.
The US entering the war made their loss certain and sped it along by probably half a decade.
But it wasn't the US riding in on a magic carpet and suddenly total allied victory.
Allied victory was a team effort and a lot of their strength was due to them fighting broadly the same war. While the axis where busy fighting their own little wars.

And yes the soviet union was also late and gay. Very gay even, straight up troon with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact
 
Well the Battle for Stalingrad started before the US sent in troops with operation Torch. The destruction of army group B being what most historians consider to be the turning point of WWII in the West.
The axis would had already lost the war by the time the US joined in.
The Japs attack the US and others because it needed to expand the war in order to keep their war in China going.
The Germans where bogging down in the soviet union and had just lost the second battle of El Alamein right before operation Torch.
The Italians, well couldn't even take Greece.
The US entering the war made their loss certain and sped it along by probably half a decade.
But it wasn't the US riding in on a magic carpet and suddenly total allied victory.
Allied victory was a team effort and a lot of their strength was due to them fighting broadly the same war. While the axis where busy fighting their own little wars.

And yes the soviet union was also late and gay. Very gay even, straight up troon with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact
So how much of Europe was liberated again? I don't see that number posted yet. Did I miss it? I'm just not able to find any European countries that were liberated before the US sent combat troops.
 
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