Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[otherdispair]

So how much of Europe was liberated again? I don't see that number posted yet. Did I miss it? I'm just not able to find any European countries that were liberated before the US sent combat troops.

It's good to see that you agree with all the other points I've brought up.
You argument is a fallacy. You are claiming that without the US there wouldn't have been a liberation of continental Europe.
As I have state before the US sped up the liberation of continental Europe by several years to half a decade. But the axis couldn't win any more by the point the US troops got involved.
No, no countries where liberated, they where still occupied by the other half of Europe.

 

[Snekposter]

The Italians, well couldn't even take Greece.

And the British couldn't take North Africa from them without American help. And no, the Germans only sent a token force to help out their Italian allies, so don't think you can blame Rommel for it being a see-saw.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

That's just what is happening on the ground. Without the "destroyers for bases" deal, Royal Navy wouldn't have had the ships for convoy escort and offensive operations. Like eventually turning the Mediterranean completely back into an English lake.

 

[otherdispair]

Oh almighty burgers please accept my humble apologies for ever doubting that the US is the sole reason anything happens since Leif Erikson landed in Vinland.
If not for lady Liberty the crusades wouldn't have happened and we'd all be speaking classical arabic.
To prove my penitence I will go eat at McDonald or some other goyslop chain.
Never mind the second battle of El Alemein, Stalingrad or Cape Matapan.
It is all thanks to Uncle Sam, the Alpha and Omega.

Anyway a Ukrainian naval drone has downed a Russian SU 27

 

[trent]

A country that doesn't even have a Navy used a DIYed drone boat to take down a multimillion dollar Russian jet.

 

[Snekposter]

Oh almighty burgers please accept my humble apologies for ever doubting that the US is the sole reason anything happens since Leif Erikson landed in Vinland.
If not for lady Liberty the crusades wouldn't have happened and we'd all be speaking classical arabic.
To prove my penitence I will go eat at McDonald or some other goyslop chain.
Never mind the second battle of El Alemein, Stalingrad or Cape Matapan.
It is all thanks to Uncle Sam, the Alpha and Omega.

I'm guessing you're a Bong, so is this really the best banter you can do?

That's just what is happening on the ground. Without the "destroyers for bases" deal, Royal Navy wouldn't have had the ships for convoy escort and offensive operations. Like eventually turning the Mediterranean completely back into an English lake.

Best part is those ships were all outdated rustbuckets from WW1 that were barely seaworthy thanks to dubious storage conditions (let alone combat worthy), leading to many complaints from the British about their terrible condition but they still wound up using them since they were that hard-up for anything to combat German U-boats with.

 

[otherdispair]

so is this really the best banter you can do?

Oh God no.
It's a parting shot, a semi-polite peace offering.
I've made my claim, clarified it and supported it with arguments.
Arguments none of you have seen fit to engage with. Going for some good old "if it wasn't for the US you'd all be speaking German".
So there's no more point in continuing this conversation as it's grown stale.

 

[Snekposter]

Oh God no.
It's a parting shot, a semi-polite peace offering.
I've made my claim, clarified it and supported it with arguments.
Arguments none of you have seen fit to engage with. Going for some good old "if it wasn't for the US you'd all be speaking German".
So there's no more point in continuing this conversation as it's grown stale.

Saying that the war was already over by the time we joined and it "only" would have taken another five to ten years longer than it really did if not for us isn't the own you think it is considering how quickly things can change. For all you know Hitler may have kicked the bucket in 1946 thanks to his drug habit with someone less retarded taking over who could force a stalemate, if not push back against the Soviets thanks to having a relatively intact industrial base and Luftwaffe, the complete destruction of both of which can be directly attributed to the USA, not the UK on account of you guys lacking fighters with sufficient range to engage German fighters over Germany.

To directly quote Eric Brown, one of the greatest pilots in the world:

The Mustang was a good fighter and the best escort due to its incredible range, make no mistake about it. It was also the best American dogfighter. But the laminar-flow wing fitted to the Mustang could be a little tricky. It could not by any means out-turn a Spitfire. No way. It had a good rate-of-roll, better than the Spitfire, so I would say the plusses to the Spitfire and the Mustang just about equate. If I were in a dogfight, I'd prefer to be flying the Spitfire. The problem was I wouldn't like to be in a dogfight near Berlin, because I could never get home to Britain in a Spitfire!

And of course one Hermann "von Zeppelin" Goering:

When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up.

 

[No. 7 cat]

Ukraine has not really been hammering that button though. Part of the problem front a strategic standpoint. But in general Ukraine has not engaged in a full scale mobilization or draft.

More broadly though Russia's constraint is less manpower and more economic. They can't sustain this tempo indefinitely and everyone knows it.

Russian propagandists churn out these really badly acted sketches showing forced mobilisation. Ukraine cannot fully mobilise obviously as they'll have no civil economy left, and no aid package would remotely suffice for that. Also it's allowed or forced Ukraine to develop the drones in depth strategy. Ukraine's high command also seem to be very interventionist at times, moving small formations based on already stale info. Drones in depth mean a degree and safety and redundancy.


Russian Army donkey with drone jammer - Rageintel in Insta

poor little fella.

Sea Drone Shoots Down Russian Fighter Jet—A World FirstIn a historic military feat, Ukraine’s GUR special forces used a Magura V5 naval drone to shoot down a Russian Su-30SM fighter jet using an R-73 infrared missile near Novorossiysk in the Black Sea.The drone, operated by Ukraine’s elite Group 13, marks the first recorded instance in history of a fighter jet being downed by a sea drone—a major leap in asymmetric warfare.The Russian pilot and weapons officer ejected and survived, according to initial reports.This unprecedented attack demonstrates how naval drones are evolving into multi-role platforms, capable not only of kamikaze strikes against warships but now air-to-air combat from the sea.#Ukraine #Russia #BlackSea #NavalDrone #Su30 #MaguraV5 #DroneWarfare

source - Rageintel on Insta



Ukraine has offered a full 30 day ceasefire, but putin only wants peace and quiet for his dictator jamboree. Likely the ceasefire means no drones attacking Russia while Shaheed drones can flying into Ukraine and try murder at will.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine cannot guarantee the safety of foreign officials planning to attend Russia’s Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9, warning that any incidents on Russian territory fall solely under the Kremlin’s control, Interfax Ukraine reported on May 3.

“Our position is very simple for all countries traveling to Russia on May 9: We cannot be held responsible for what happens on the territory of the Russian Federation,” Zelensky said during a briefing with journalists. “They are responsible for your safety. We will not provide any guarantees, because we do not know what Russia might do on those dates.”

Zelensky cautioned that Russia could orchestrate provocations, including “arsons, explosions, or other actions,” and then attempt to blame Ukraine. He said Kyiv has advised visiting delegations accordingly.

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s government has reportedly invited numerous foreign leaders to attend commemorative events marking the 80th anniversary of the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany. Among the invited guests are leaders from EU member Slovakia, EU candidate Serbia, as well as China, India, and Brazil.

“I told the foreign minister that when countries reach out to us, we must clearly state: ‘We do not recommend visiting Russia from a (security) standpoint. And if you choose to go, that is your personal decision — do not ask us for guarantees,’” Zelensky said.

The Ukrainian leader emphasized that Ukraine has shown respect toward nations that have remained neutral or aligned with Russia due to historic ties, including China, and that Kyiv continues to engage in diplomatic dialogue with those states.

“But Ukraine bears no responsibility for what happens inside Russia. That is a fact,” Zelensky added. “Moreover, I am sure that other countries engage in the same diplomacy with the Russians when they come to us, and experience shows that we have had many different leaders, and during their visits there were various formats of attacks, assaults, intimidation.”

Photo: Iliya Pitalev - Host Photo Agency via Getty Images

Kyiv Independent on Instagram

Hopefully Lula (overall crook and putin fan) and Vucić (a notably shameless both-sider and chromosome lacker who can meet Ukrainian officials but is aided directly by SVR officers on how to destroy pro democratic protests) can discover the business end of Ukrainian drones and perhaps share their info with Beelzebub or whoever they meet in their new warmer quarters. Modi nor his FM will be there, but for a notorious Kashmir and threatened war with Pakistan related reason. Xi will likely send someone he's hoping won't be around any longer, that is, some potential rival or a client of same.

Preston Stewart on Insta - short take

Preston Stewart on YouTube - long form on points for dead commies

 

[otherdispair]

Saying that the war was already over by the time we joined and it "only" would have taken another five to ten years longer than it really did if not for us isn't the own you think it is considering how quickly things can change. For all you know Hitler may have kicked the bucket in 1946 thanks to his drug habit with someone less retarded taking over who could force a stalemate, if not push back against the Soviets thanks to having a relatively intact industrial base and Luftwaffe, the complete destruction of both of which can be directly attributed to the USA, not the UK on account of you guys lacking fighters with sufficient range to engage German fighters over Germany.

But that isn't what we where discussing.
You all got your panties in a twist at me pointing out that the US was late and gay to both world wars.
Something none of you have disputed in so far as WWI. All you have brought up as again isn't in relation to that.
Again the US was late because the war had already been going on for several years by the time the US got directly involved.
This is historical fact. It is gay in my opinion because the US retroactively after being forced into the war declared it as a great crusade for democracy ect. Like there hadn't been a war between democratic against non-democratic countries going on for several years already.
That is it, you haven't touched on any of that.
But it sure got all your burger wrappers all crumpled up because the good war is a part of the US's foundational myths.

https://ihr.org/other/goodwarmythweber.

And because I go against this myth you all feel the need to show how much your feefees got hurt instead of taking a step back and looking at things from an other angle. Had I made the same argument about how the soviets where late and gay to WWII you'd be lapping it up.

As for the allies winning the war even without the US entering the war. Yes, if you look at it trough the Mahan doctrine or any other number of grand strategic doctrines the Axis had already lost.
The Germans had lost the control of every sea they where operating on bar the Baltic. They had lost the air war for Britain. And on the eastern front the soviets after getting the teeth kicked in where about to start hammering the Heer.

 

[Snekposter]

But that isn't what we where discussing.
You all got your panties in a twist at me pointing out that the US was late and gay to both world wars.
Something none of you have disputed in so far as WWI. All you have brought up as again isn't in relation to that.
Again the US was late because the war had already been going on for several years by the time the US got directly involved.

I already replied to this:

You say we were late, we say we were dragged into a brawl on the other end of the street against our will.

It wasn't our problem until you guys made it our problem, and then on top of that you all decided we were late and gay to the party despite us never wanting to be there to begin with. So yes, we're going to claim ownership over the whole affair, because its either that or we turn our attention to and blame the guys who helped drag us in (namely the UK and France).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Wars
I shouldn't need to remind you of the blatant similarities.

In the resulting Treaty of Tempea, Philip V was forbidden from interfering with affairs outside his borders, and was required to relinquish his recent Greek conquests. At the Olympiad in 196 BC Rome proclaimed the "Freedom of the Greeks", which constituted Rome's (arguably misguided) new policy towards Greece. This was that Greece was now stable and Rome could completely remove itself from Greek affairs without risking more instability. It seemed that Rome had no further interest in the region, as they withdrew all military forces without even attempting to consolidate any gains, and subsequently returned to their prior apathy even when their Greek allies ignored later Roman requests.

I wonder if historians a few thousand years from now will write of the Americans declaring the "Freedom of the Europeans" in 1918/1919 the exact same way.

But it sure got all your burger wrappers all crumpled up because the good war is a part of the US's foundational myths.

Well, yeah. Why wouldn't it be?
Also, that article is bullshit considering it claims the invasion of Poland was just a tiny limited conflict with no greater repercussions or context save that it was a pretext for the English and French to intervene, completely ignoring all of Germany's prior actions and stated intents and the guarantees of independence the English and French had made to the Poles. Like shit, I wouldn't know where to begin to start dissecting it on account of what a dubiously written mess it is. Tell me, do you agree with its condemnations of the British Empire and Churchill, or just the parts about the USA? Frankly it seems like so much of it relies on hindsight rather than the affairs of the world at the time.

And because I go against this myth you all feel the need to show how much your feefees got hurt instead of taking a step back and looking at things from an other angle. Had I made the same argument about how the soviets where late and gay to WWII you'd be lapping it up.

Bah ha ha, why would we? I'd be the first to insist they were in at the start of it all thanks to their alliance with the Germans and divvying up of Poland they gleefully partook in. I'd also be the first to say Stalin was smart about his takeover plans since he waited until after the UK and France were already committed to war against the Germans, on top of the fact that to get to the Soviets they'd have to go through Germany anyways. Had they gone and declared war on the USSR as well as Germany in 1939 the Allies would have been mercilessly crushed under the sheer weight of both nations working in concert with no hope for a Dunkirk evacuation, and with German industry happily fueled by Soviet resources instead of only what the Germans could exploit from their occupied territories in Europe the UK never would have been able to hold out.

The Germans had lost the control of every sea they where operating on bar the Baltic.

Mahanian doctrine failed to account for the submarine.

They had lost the air war for Britain.

Britain had failed to win the air war for Germany.

And on the eastern front the soviets after getting the teeth kicked in where about to start hammering the Heer.

Only possible thanks to the USA turning on the Lend-Lease taps after joining the war. The USSR was almost wholly dependent on the USA for logistics, explosives, and aviation.

 

[mindlessobserver]

The US was late to the world wars because both had been going on before the US joined them.

Because both were not our problem. Until the parties involved decided to make it our problem. Germany could have marched into London in 1918 and slaughtered every last man woman and child, and the USA would not have intervened. We intervened because Germany attacked our shipping and tried to make a hostile alliance with Mexico.

 

[-Jack-]

Can you faggots pls stop having hate boners for the respective countries and focus on Ukraine and its conflict. Snekposter, you have an irrational hatred of the UK for some odd reason.

Russians are gross, and I would not have sex with them.

 

[otherdispair]

Can you faggots pls stop having hate boners for the respective countries and focus on Ukraine and its conflict. Snekposter, you have an irrational hatred of the UK for some odd reason.

Russians are gross, and I would not have sex with them.

I will refrain from posting about it anymore. If the snek or anyone else wants to we can continue the discussion via private messages.

Russians using an assault tractor, ideal for spreading organic fertilizer over Ukraine's fields.

 

[Ghostse]

Ukraine has offered a full 30 day ceasefire, but putin only wants peace and quiet for his dictator jamboree. Likely the ceasefire means no drones attacking Russia while Shaheed drones can flying into Ukraine and try murder at will.

God I hope Ukraine drones the Kremlin again but during the parade, it would be so fucking funny.

It's good to see that you agree with all the other points I've brought up.
You argument is a fallacy. You are claiming that without the US there wouldn't have been a liberation of continental Europe.
As I have state before the US sped up the liberation of continental Europe by several years to half a decade. But the axis couldn't win any more by the point the US troops got involved.
No, no countries where liberated, they where still occupied by the other half of Europe.

There's no agreement, just I see no reason to address cope from someone unable to answer a simple question and instead throws a bunch of attempts to shift the topic.

So you (eventually) agree that before the US saved the Brits, zero countries were liberated.
Then you claim that no countries liberated = the war almost over.
For the Germans, maybe.

I'm not even addressing the economic and technological aid because unlike you, I'm not - and no one here is- claiming that The US singlehandedly won the war. Nor the UK's utterly disastrous Pacific campaign where they were about to lose Australia before the Japs awoke the sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.
But England and Russia were not on a path to victory before the US showed up and its laughable to suggesting otherwise. England was completely broke which is why Lead-lease and bases-for-arms was dreamed up, because they couldn't pay for all the shit they needed to keep importing in order to stay in the fight. This is not "5, 10 more years to glorious victory" unless England discovered a massive deposit of gold to finance its war for that decade. And it might make the US late, but then by your yardstick (not my yardstick, yours) it was the UK who was gay and ineffectual; beating the WWII Italian forces is hardly a boast worthy achievement, but I'll give it to you.
England: Better at War Than Italy
Also England specifically was so utterly ruined by the war's toll they had to import people from their Carribean holdings to try to keep the nation from collapsing.
And let's not get into how much American support the USSR required because I have other things to do today.

To use an analogy for your bongbrain, if a soccer footie match between England and Germany has reached the end of regulation play with Germany up 1 to nil, the Refs for no fucking goddamn reason decide that 15 minutes should be added back to the clock, and then Messi - who has just been coaching at this point - dons a jersey and proceeds to score 2 goals winning the game, this still makes Messi the MVP and essential for England's victory, regardless of if England got Germany's start player red-carded, and regardless of how mainly shots-on-goal England managed before.

I will refrain from posting about it anymore. If the snek or anyone else wants to we can continue the discussion via private messages.

If you don't bring up the topic anymore we won't continue to point out how retarded you are.

 

[SneedingNFeeding]

Will the victory parade be really exciting this year?

 

[otherdispair]

If you don't bring up the topic anymore we won't continue to point out how retarded you are.

I extend the same invitation I made of Snekposter to you if you want to keep discussing this. But I'm not going to further off topic as I already have.
If you have the balls for it just say so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp1WOldD0dk

Ukraine has turned droning ziggers into a reward program/game.
It's a great way to encourage friendly competition, streamline procurement, encourage innovation and allow the best units/operators to stand out.

 

[khaine]

With the "late and gay" line and attitude.

WWI wasn't America's war beyond selling shit to the euros so they can continue to kill each other. England had to spend years propagandazing, breaking naval and espionage laws to get Wilson to have the United States enter the war.

You fuckers pushed self-determination throughout WW1, with Woodrow Wilson's 14 Points. This is the direct cause of many of the issues in the world today. Like always, you came in late claimed you saved the world and fucked everything up. So yeah, late and gay is apt.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

You eurofucks wanted American cannon fodder and instead got a DNC socialist monkey's paw ram up your ass.

One of only good things the nigger messiah did was throwing Wilson under the bus.

 

[teriyakiburns]

You fuckers pushed self-determination throughout WW1, with Woodrow Wilson's 14 Points. This is the direct cause of many of the issues in the world today. Like always, you came in late claimed you saved the world and fucked everything up. So yeah, late and gay is apt.

You eurofucks wanted American cannon fodder and instead got a DNC socialist monkey's paw ram up your ass.

One of only good things the nigger messiah did was throwing Wilson under the bus.

Will you faggots just fuck already?

View attachment 7314257

Will the victory parade be really exciting this year?

Just so long as they don't blow up the remaining single T34-85 they have in the parade. It's a piece of history that needs to stay in one piece.

They can have the armata, as a treat.