Vivienne Medrano / VivziePop / NozzArts / xZoOPhobiAx / VivMind / Spindlehorse Studios - Bisexual Fujoshit that is the definition of "Author's Barely Disguised Fetish", Ruined her own show for a mediocre ship, Crashes out on twitter daily, Professional Victim and Crybully

While I understand the argument, one of Viv's many problems as a creator is she's really bad with establishing canon within her shows, and instead of admitting she made a mistake, will scramble to fill in/deflect plot holes and criticism outside of the show. At least with something like Harry Potter, you can understand the base story and everything going on without needing all the random details Rowling added after the fact on her website. I've only ever seen Hazbin, but just from the start, whether the events from the YouTube pilot happened in comparison to the rest of the series is wildly up in the air without outside clarification. And even then, the official answer isn't particularly helpful.

If I'm being overly generous, Viv is someone who can write the middle of events, but has absolutely no idea how to really setup a beginning or end. She has a very fanfic approach to writing, where you take something that already has a lot of pre-established lore and is only going to be read by people familiar with said lore, then throws together a quick story getting out whatever main idea they were fixated on, then quickly moves on to the next thing without exploring the consequences of whatever happened. Which...honestly isn't the worst thing in the world. It used to be a fairly common thing with shows, with the intent being anyone could just tune in and understand what was going on without being lost if they missed previous episodes. I think it's why a lot of people criticize Helluva for moving away from the "hell assassin" style of storytelling, which is a good setup for jumping around in stories from week to week.
Doesn't Viv have people to help her with the written portion of these episodes? Or they just yes men and let Viv do whatever she wants?

Honestly, the Helluva Boss concept of new mission every episode had a better premise. I'm not happy they barely throw that in unless it's within a short.
 
Doesn't Viv have people to help her with the written portion of these episodes? Or they just yes men and let Viv do whatever she wants?

Honestly, the Helluva Boss concept of new mission every episode had a better premise. I'm not happy they barely throw that in unless it's within a short.
I don't know if it's specifically a case of yes men or more a case of writing among friends. I imagine it as a group of highschoolers who decide they're going to write a story together. Both in terms of the quality of the show and the writing process. It works for them because it isn't designed for a general audience. They all know the characters and the world, or at least the elements that are important to them, because they've talked about it. But the general audience has no idea about a lot of those details. Or if the audience is interested in something they didn't think to cover, they have to scramble to explain it.

That last bit is particularly troublesome for the team because I think Viv and co. are more interested in the sad gay boys, while a lot of people are more interested in either the world building or character motivation. There's a reason the shows are described as things like "hitmen from hell take out sinners" or "The devil's daughter tries to rehabilitate souls in hell."

The emphasis tends to be on the hellish aspects. Hell is a very unique setting for a show. Off the bat, it implies a strong supernatural setting with lots of dark elements and really fleshed out characters. You don't get thrown into hell for being a nobody. Backstory is also a key detail for a hell setting. Especially if the whole entire point is to redeem the characters. You need to know *why* they need redemption. But as far as I know, almost all the backstory of the characters in Hazbin comes from Viv and co. sharing details. And then sometimes changing those details when there's fan backlash.

Even the relationship side of things, which you think Viv and co. would excel at, is really, really weak. Viv's female characters are awful. Not to say her male characters are examples of great writing, but they at least tend to do things and sometimes have agency. But because Viv wants them to be in a constant state of gay angst, there's not really anything you can do with them. Honestly, the best way to describe it is if someone took a softcore porn and told you to make a drama series out of it. Actually, not just a drama series, but an epic drama series with multiple worlds and incredibly high stakes.

Viv is very much a coffeshop style of writer. More specifically, a teen coffeshop style of writer. I think if Viv initially leaned into that/marketed her shows as such, they'd do a lot better. I mean, that's basically the audience she has right now to begin with. But I think a lot of people tuned in for what was being advertised, a hellish hitmen agency or soul rehabiliation. I'd say it's the marketing teams fault if anything, but it feels like Viv herself was always pushing that narrative, and still makes vague attempts at having these bigger premises but they just always fall short because nobody on the writing team really seems to care about telling those stories.
 
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And her likes courtesy of bskyviewer
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Imagine being such a reddit atheist, that you make a show about Heaven and Hell yet still refuse to put God in it.
Out of all the criticism directed at Viv this is the one that I agree with most. If Viv is going to make 2 shows that say divine beings suck she should at least have the common courtesy to use fucking God.
 
It can't be that these people who watch these "bad video essays" couldn't already have disliked the piece of media, but just couldn't figure out what exactly what went wrong. Or they want to see a different perspective from. No, everything is done in bad faith. And we are being gaslighted into disliking these shows.

Why is it that everyone is disliking your shows Viv? Are they all just being brainwashed? Or could it be that perhaps the direction of the shows have changed from what the people expected? Could old writers being replaced with new writers have anything to do with it? Nooooo, we're all just being swayed by video essays from haters. These shows are actually great and we're all just petty and jealous.
 
It can't be that these people who watch these "bad video essays" couldn't already have disliked the piece of media, but just couldn't figure out what exactly what went wrong. Or they want to see a different perspective from. No, everything is done in bad faith. And we are being gaslighted into disliking these shows.
Viv and her fans should know better than anyone that people often watch videos to hear their own opinions repeated to them.
 
Imagine being such a reddit atheist, that you make a show about Heaven and Hell yet still refuse to put God in it.
The official explanation is because Viv and I quote "Doesn't want to offend people" well ya did it Viv, you managed to offend other people FOR OTHER REASONS. It's just a cop out so she won't cause more issues. Real shame since fanon God is made by two of her supporters as well as the ArchAngels. It'll be best if she didn't she'll probably make God a Tranny since with Adam she whitewashed him.
 
Out of all the criticism directed at Viv this is the one that I agree with most. If Viv is going to make 2 shows that say divine beings suck she should at least have the common courtesy to use fucking God.
I think in a more mature and nuanced take of Hazbin and Helluva, it would actually make sense to never show god and only have characters, mainly ones in heaven, speak of him, never have him speak to the viewers or be shown. I think this is mainly because God is such a divine entity, that it simply wouldn't make sense for anyone outside of his closest Angels to be able to even comprehend him. I'm not christian, I'm agnostic myself, but I think an entity such as god should be treated with such divine respect and grandeur since in this universe he is the creator of quite literally everything. incomprehensible to even most angels, he is all, he sees all.

I have tons of ideas for my own take on Hazbin Hotel, specifically regarding the handling of Heaven and it's angels such as Adam, but I doubt many want to read that and + this isn't the dedicated show thread, I just thought I'd give my input.
 
I have tons of ideas for my own take on Hazbin Hotel, specifically regarding the handling of Heaven and it's angels such as Adam, but I doubt many want to read that and + this isn't the dedicated show thread, I just thought I'd give my input.
I say give it a shot, at least a portion of what you have in mind. I'm sure plenty of us would be interested to see a different approach to this hell of a mess of a story.
 
I say give it a shot, at least a portion of what you have in mind. I'm sure plenty of us would be interested to see a different approach to this hell of a mess of a story.
Okay.

Most of my thoughts so far have been regarding heaven, as I'm really not a fan of how Heaven was portrayed in the show in terms of it's denizens (Adam) or the way it looks. Heaven shouldn't look like just another regular city, it should be an entirely different kind of civilization alltogether, with it's own constructions, infrastructure, way of life, and more. it shouldn't look anything like hell. The way the show presents it makes comparing heaven and hell look like comparing California and New York, which just isn't how an otherworldly civilization built on virtues and faith should look like.

Secondly, Adam. Here's how I would rewrite him and some events surrounding him because I do not like how he's written or portrayed in the show.

So Adam was there with Eve when they got kicked out of Heaven right? he wandered the lands forever guilty of his inability to stop Eve from breaking the one rule God had set for them. Eventually he would die, and where would he end up? hell. Adam wasn't a bad person, but because he was banished from the Garden of Eden by God himself, he wasn't able to go to heaven. He fell into hell and saw Hell in a more primitive state, Lucifer was still developing his Palace with Lilith and the entire systems of hell had not been established. Lucifer was thrilled to have Adam with him, it meant there was going to be more, more sinners, more inhabitants, he could have the world he wanted, he could truly be a ruler. However Adam and Lucifer had two very different ideas on what hell should be like, to Lucifer, hell should be it's own crooked paradise, a place where people sent to hell could indulge in all of the sin they wanted forever instead of be punished for their wrong-doings. Adam however had a different idea in mind, he wanted hell to be an eternal punishment for sinners, or at the very least, a place where they are doomed to wander as he did, he still felt incredibly guilty and never really agreed or followed in Lucifers footsteps, he knew he was bad, and he knew the people arriving down here would be just as bad if not worse, and he didn't want them to indulge, but rather to repent. (This is meant to address the criticism of hell in the show not really being a hell, rather a kind of sandbox paradise for it's sinners, the reason it's like that is because Lucifer himself built it that way, he's Lucifer. He's got an ego, why should he punish the souls who fell down here? why should he do what God and his butt-buddies supposedly wanted? God had banished him, stripped him of his wings simply for daring to question him and try something new, why should he adhere to what they want?)

Despite these differences, Adam would stay by Lucifers and Lilliths side, attempting in vain to convince him to do things his way, Lucifer never got rid of him because having someone who had directly interacted with god and had invaluable insight was simply too important of a person to disregard, and it stayed that way up until a long while later, at this point Pentagram city was being developed, and far more people had fallen into hell and were helping build it, the systems and hierarchies of hell were being built and sin ran rampant. Adam still tried to convince Lucifer, offering a compromise of entrapping people who had done particularly awful acts into a dungeon, Lucifer said he would consider it, but every time Adam inquired, he said he was still thinking about it. Fast-forward another long while later and Pentagram city is "thriving", and Adam was distraught. He thought that, despite his grievances, perhaps some sinners and some fallen would feel the same regret and guilt he did, that it was possible that he wouldn't be alone, but once he took a good look at the city, he knew he was so dearly wrong. Even the people who did genuinely feel guilty for their actions and wanted to repent were typically beaten in the streets, their skulls smashed open and killed over and over again until they just stopped appearing (for context, in this rewrite, you can die and come back in hell, but you get just a bit weaker every time you die, whether it be your mind, your skin, your flesh or your blood. You get a tad bit slower, you can't remember things how you used to, you aren't as smart as you used to be, your magic/muscles are a bit weaker, stuff like that. Once you die enough times, you enter Limbo, which is an entirely different thing I'll save for another time)

Adam, finally fed up with this, went up to Lucifer and his council ( the seven deadly sins, who I haven't fully thought out yet but what I'm going with now is they're basically incarnations of mankinds worst aspects come to life) and had a massive argument with them, saying that if he didn't start punishing the sinners, he would start punishing them, and for every sinner he punished, he would carve a piece of flesh off himself and force-feed it to the sinners, forcing them to eat their well-earned retribution physically and mentally. after the confrontation grew physical, Lucifer entrapped him in a stone dungeon at the very bottom of his palace, just like he always wanted. Adam is kept here, being tortured in all kinds of brutal and awful ways, barely fed, barely watered, alone, at the bottom of hell.

Fast forward to when Jesus sacrifices himself for his sins, I don't think this would bring all of the sinners down from hell into heaven, however the one man that would be saved from eternal agony was Adam. God himself interfered, offering Adam a way to rejoin his kingdom up above, Adam was confused, and initially refused, still feeling he was guilty, however as he was weeping for his existance, he closed his eyes, and found himself in Heaven with a new body, a towering body, atleast 12 inches tall, with 2 sets of arms, 4 wings, and one eye in the middle of his head, he was able to speak without a mouth, able to hear without ears, and able to cry without tearducts. He thanked God, he thanked and thanked and thanked him, accepting his new position as an Arch-angel with a promise of redemption and honor, cementing himself as one of Gods closest Angels.

THIS. Is why Adam doesn't believe in redemption, it's not that he doesn't want to, it's because he's SEEN hell himself, and what Lucifer has turned it into, and that was Hundreds of centuries ago, he KNOWS how corrupt hell is and what happens to the actual remorseful people, he's SEEN how people indulge in sin, he's been at Lucifers side himself and saw what he turned hell into, he was there for all of it. And if it was that bad back then, who knows how bad it is now, it's a place of sin, a place of unrepentance, and a place, of hell.

However, Adam offers Charlie an olive branch. You see, over the endless amount of time Heaven and Hell have been things, there HAVE been some fallen angels, they are few and far between, but they do exist. These angels are escorted down into hell in secret for fear of them being instantly cannibalized if it were known that they were angels, and it's treated as a tragedy when it happens. Adam thinks of his fallen bretheren with sorrow, knowing where they ended up, and turns to Charlie and offers her a chance to prove herself, if she can find one, just one, singular fallen angel, bring them to the hotel, and properly, 100%, rehabilitates them, he will consider taking it up with the council. Adam knows it's a long shot, after all, if they could not be helped in gods kingdom, a place that rewards virtues, how could they hope to get better or redeem themselves in a place that actively harbors and encourages sin? Despite this, he doesn't want to shoot down the idea, he can see that Charlie is nothing like her father, he can see the genuine optimism and glee, an optimism he wishes he could have experienced for himself, so he offers this one chance at true redemption. he WANTS it to happen, but he just doesn't think it can. Adam gives Charlie a list of fallen angels, what they last looked like, and where they were dropped off, and bids her farewell, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

What do you think? Do you like it?
 
What do you think? Do you like it?
Story-wise, this Adam does make a lot more sense; but I can't help but prefer the one we have in canon. Sure, the show attempts to portray him as a one-dimensional bad guy, but he's undeniably entertaining as fuck in every scene. Making him a goofy rockstar type was definitely one of Hazbin's better ideas.
 
I came back to tell you I searched through the playlist and found two gems (and others) some of which seems to be Smosh videos and Dick Figures, what I did not anticipate was the fact she added not only Rebecca Sugar stuff but also TEAMFOURSTAR. Literally what the fuck is this.
 
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