Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

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R.I.P. universe 13. DBM ruined a cool thing.
>DBM ruined a cool thing
I know this was posted a while ago, but fuck it, they're doing dogshit with their story again anyway, so I want to post this shit somewhere, and nowhere else would I really be able to post this stuff.

What can you expect from a story written by the CTO of some scammy Bulgarian microtransaction infested game company?
This is what Salagir does as a dayjob, and I will warn you, the ""games"" this company has produced are fucking nightmares beyond my comprehension.
He's Laurent Gomez, btw.

I did something of a deepdive into him after the whole debacle with his main artist drawing what effectively amounts to nude loli art from the back and him hosting it on his website. (No, it doesn't matter that the character is a 'chibi' version of another character, you drew them with the realistic proportions of a child naked, it also doesn't matter if she's 5353 years old.) (I'm not gonna post it here, but a version of it (the original had no banner, which was added as some sort of pedoflex at the outrage) can be seen if you just look at the final page of "Chibi Son Bra" if for some reason you need proof.
Tldr, kill the french.
 
I plan to make my own manga or fan one of DBZ is there something I should NEVER do?
 
I plan to make my own manga or fan one of DBZ is there something I should NEVER do?
DBM is actually a good case study for what you shouldn't do for a DB Fan Manga, actually.
It's infested with outright retarded shit such as

>DBZ Broly is literally completely invulnerable to everyone ever except when he isn't (He can tank Vegito Super Saiyan 3, Supermassive Black Holes, but he dies when he gets hit by some grey goo goop.)
>Vegito is actually an arrogant insane psychopath who would become something akin to a tyrant if he remained fused, despite being made up of a post Character Development Vegeta (Like half an hour away from accepting Goku is better than him once and for all) and fucking Goku himself.
>Everything about the fucking cringe overload mary sue version of Buu who has no real weaknesses whatsoever.
>Magic users absolutely fucking pounding Ki specialists beyond belief. (Super Saiyan 3 Vegito got insta-disabled by one)
>Timestop actually allows you to effortlessly kill everyone, no matter how strong (Vegito was used as the story's bitch for this one)
>Literally everything about "Son Bra" (Never fucking start waifuing a character in your own story like Salagir did with DBM)
>Ki users no matter how strong getting sliced with ease by monomolecular blades
>Gohan allowing Pan to fight Bojack in a fight to the death. Even though Pan is only a Super Saiyan. This ends with Pan getting her neck snapped.
>Constant main story interruptions for flashback chapters of the universes in the story that nobody gives a fuck about. (I hope you enjoy finding out the backstory of Bojack and his gang, even though you already saw them not just get sent home from the tournament already, but were literally all murdered for good upon going back home)
>Deus Ex Machina through the ass, including one which was literally just "HECKIN SCIENCE! YEAH!"

But the worst offender of all in DBM that no other fan manga should ever want to replicate is the 'Racial Power Caps'
Where characters have a literal limit to their power that when reached can never ever be surpassed, no matter what you do. So this story takes place roughly 20 years after the Buu Saga, and despite having been training for that entire time, neither Goku or Vegeta have surpassed the level of strength Gohan had when he fought Buu, despite having unlocked a "brand new" form (that is just Full Power Super Saiyan that looks like UI Omen) they call "Normal Super Saiyan"
Gohan hasn't lifted a finger to train for all that time and is still superior to Goku and Vegeta.
This is genuinely Goku's fucking personal hell.
That no matter what he does, he'll never be able to break his limits and get any stronger.

I could say a lot about this fucking "Fan"comic.
 
>DBZ Broly is literally completely invulnerable to everyone ever except when he isn't (He can tank Vegito Super Saiyan 3, Supermassive Black Holes, but he dies when he gets hit by some grey goo goop.)
>Vegito is actually an arrogant insane psychopath who would become something akin to a tyrant if he remained fused, despite being made up of a post Character Development Vegeta (Like half an hour away from accepting Goku is better than him once and for all) and fucking Goku himself.
>Everything about the fucking cringe overload mary sue version of Buu who has no real weaknesses whatsoever.
>Magic users absolutely fucking pounding Ki specialists beyond belief. (Super Saiyan 3 Vegito got insta-disabled by one)
>Timestop actually allows you to effortlessly kill everyone, no matter how strong (Vegito was used as the story's bitch for this one)
>Literally everything about "Son Bra" (Never fucking start waifuing a character in your own story like Salagir did with DBM)
>Ki users no matter how strong getting sliced with ease by monomolecular blades
>Gohan allowing Pan to fight Bojack in a fight to the death. Even though Pan is only a Super Saiyan. This ends with Pan getting her neck snapped.
>Constant main story interruptions for flashback chapters of the universes in the story that nobody gives a fuck about. (I hope you enjoy finding out the backstory of Bojack and his gang, even though you already saw them not just get sent home from the tournament already, but were literally all murdered for good upon going back home)
>Deus Ex Machina through the ass, including one which was literally just "HECKIN SCIENCE! YEAH!"
OH MY AIDS.

Son Bra is universely hated, I saw a panel off of Pinterest and this is what happens when you don't give your characters canonical development. I always strayed from actually giving any of the canon kids stories because in canon who the fuck care4s about them when I can use OCs?
 
OH MY AIDS.

Son Bra is universely hated, I saw a panel off of Pinterest and this is what happens when you don't give your characters canonical development. I always strayed from actually giving any of the canon kids stories because in canon who the fuck care4s about them when I can use OCs?
And the ironic thing is, the only characters in DBM who are near universally liked are either "basically" OCs or are just OCs.
People like the OC girl from the tech user universe, and they like the "what-if all the Namekians fused together" guy.

Ironically enough, you might think that DBM is the sort of story giving the canon kids stuff to do, but it's literally just Bra.
Pan... well, despite being Gohan's daughter and theoretically having a tremendous amount of potential has actually died on screen no less than three times in what would as a manga series equate to about... 100 chapters?
There was also that one time where the evil version of Goku had some weird implied rape bullshit when she fought him, too.

The Essencia of Dragonball.webp
Least Punished Gohan.
This is just one of many reasons why People hate Bra (who has died 0 times).
 
The thing is, I do like the concept of secret badass Bra, but only when it's wrapped up in her still being the "princess of all saiyans" spoiled rich girl that only throws down when it just personally affects her.
...and Vegeta not being around her.
 
I fucking forgot Evil Goku was an implied Pedofork :story: I'm tempted to reread this horseshit for the lulz.
I wouldn't recommend it, but having somebody else about to shit on it with might be fun.

-Caution, exceedingly autistic powerscale/powerlevelfaggotry to point out how retarded Salagir is ahead-

There's also another bit of absolutely RETARDED headcanon brought about through Salagir first experiencing Dragonball through Subpar French Translations. (and in some cases, guidebooks.)
In DBM, Freeza's max Powerlevel (at 100%) is 530,000 and Goku on Namek had a Power Level of 560,000 as a Super Saiyan.
Salagir went into great detail about this on his autistic blog once (https://www.dragon-ball-z.eu/these/comptage.php) (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/r4ksi) (it's in French, but you can just translate), the page does technically post something akin to a retraction but in the same paragraph includes what is effectively a "fuck you I'm right anyway" but the proof that it still applies in DBM is one of the few examples in Salagir's story where he actually shows a Power Level, the fucking terrible first Bojack Special. (It's bad enough that Kaioken isn't even used as multipliers, characters just say "Kaioken next level!" or "Maximum Kaioken!" or "Transcendant Kaioken!")

retardation.webp
Note the Power of 780,000 and how the generic alien is saying the literal who might be "stronger than Cold already"
In DBM, Cold's "second" form is as strong as Freeza's 100%, and he can transform all the way up to a 4th form at the start where his 100% is as strong as Android 16, and he can even transform twice more after getting a powerup that makes him Perfect Cell level! Notably, the alien is probably only talking about his "second" form here though.
(French sources are also why King Cold can transform, as one French non-canon Guidebook says that King Cold has all the abilities of his sons, and the same guidebook also says that Broly is stronger than "Goku 4" or "Gogeta 2" which is likely the source of the insane Brolywank in DBM)

Slight tangent, rule of cool is nice and all, but not when it fucks up a story, if King Cold was truly as strong as 16 at 100%, then his DNA ought to have allowed Imperfect Cell to literally kill everyone effortlessly from the get go.
Anyway, the point is that the characters in DBM are astronomically weaker than the canon characters going off of the official provided numbers from the Daizenshuu, where Goku's Powerlevel as a Super Saiyan for the first time is 150,000,000.
Salagir likes to outright ignore the story when people outright state things like when Vegeta says the Great Ape form is a 10x multiplier. It's a 2x Multiplier in DBM, for no reason.

Sure, power levels are cringe either way, but I have autism, and I just like pointing out that not only wouldn't "Son" Bra in her Super Saiyan 2 be able to compare to a character like Kefla from DBS in her Legendary 2 (seriously wtf lmao) like some fans believe, but she'd probably get killed by Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, if not Full Power Super Saiyan Gohan.

This is to say, Goku (Mid) clears Dragon Ball Multiverse, was there ever any doubt?


The thing is, I do like the concept of secret badass Bra, but only when it's wrapped up in her still being the "princess of all saiyans" spoiled rich girl that only throws down when it just personally affects her.
...and Vegeta not being around her.
See, that's a fun take on Bra, but you have to remember, this isn't Bra. This is "Son" Bra, a doppelganger psychopath that has managed to kill her two half-brothers 4 times in total, as well as billions of innocents after blowing up a planet one time, but remember, she's the victim.
Actual Bra is also in the story, and she's relegated to basically standing around and being useless except one time where she talk-no-jutsu'd her doppelganger.
This is the same story where Uub is basically treated like a joke who keeps getting his arm cut off early on and needs to overspam Kaioken to have a chance against anybody, and his final fight with Goku was just a fucking slugfest where Goku sandbagged for 12 pages before Uub fell over unconscious.
But that's honestly fair, nobody fucking likes Uub.
 
The only OC me and my friend made together is when he added another Briefs daughter to the mix. She's supposedly the heiress to Capsule Corp who never fightw
 
The only OC me and my friend made together is when he added another Briefs daughter to the mix. She's supposedly the heiress to Capsule Corp who never fightw
The surname "Briefs" is actually fanon, btw.
It's a notable thing in Dragonball that family names are extremely rare. With only Goku and his family having them, and even that dies off by the time of Pan, who is just Pan and not Son Pan.
Dr. Briefs is just called Briefs.
Bulma is just called Bulma.

Nobody goes around calling Dr. Gero's family stuff like Hedo Gero, Vomi Gero, or Gevo Gero.
 
The surname "Briefs" is actually fanon, btw.
It's a notable thing in Dragonball that family names are extremely rare. With only Goku and his family having them, and even that dies off by the time of Pan, who is just Pan and not Son Pan.
Dr. Briefs is just called Briefs.
Bulma is just called Bulma.

Nobody goes around calling Dr. Gero's family stuff like Hedo Gero, Vomi Gero, or Gevo Gero.
I swear they were called that in the dub. Oh that explains that.
 
Where characters have a literal limit to their power that when reached can never ever be surpassed,
Gohan hasn't lifted a finger to train for all that time and is still superior to Goku and Vegeta.
Doesn't that literally go against EVERYTHING Dragon Ball as a series is about? I hate when people treat it like an RPG, because it's so antithetical to a franchise that's all about self improvement and constantly surpassing your limits with the knowledge that there's always someone stronger right around the corner if you're just gonna have a hard level cap that you can never break past.
 
Doesn't that literally go against EVERYTHING Dragon Ball as a series is about? I hate when people treat it like an RPG, because it's so antithetical to a franchise that's all about self improvement and constantly surpassing your limits with the knowledge that there's always someone stronger right around the corner if you're just gonna have a hard level cap that you can never break past.
To be fair, Super tried to do something similar IIRC. That's not saying much, since Super is complete shit, but I seem to remember the show implying, if not outright stating, that Goku got sick because he was finally reaching the limit of what his body was capable of. Vegeta suggests something similar when Goku wants to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

It didn't last because Super can't be consistent for more than two episodes (at best). Still, though, it's something that appeared in a Canon Series™, albeit very briefly.
 
Doesn't that literally go against EVERYTHING Dragon Ball as a series is about? I hate when people treat it like an RPG, because it's so antithetical to a franchise that's all about self improvement and constantly surpassing your limits with the knowledge that there's always someone stronger right around the corner if you're just gonna have a hard level cap that you can never break past.
Dragon Ball has quite literally pretty much always been about that, yes.
It's what makes it so fucking jarring to read a story that the takeaway is literally "you will never surpass the eugenics superbeings no matter what, and even trying is basically pointless".

There's also this weird thing where Salagir tries to claim that the series is manga canon only, but then he adds shit like Broly, Bojack, Tapion, and some nigga from an OVA nobody watched.
It's also something that humorously makes the "Zen Buu" character (where Buu absorbed everyone and became some sort of omnipotent chaotic god with all of their memories and techniques) complete fanon bullshit, because Buu was only ever shown to copy some traits (Fat Kaioshin's Good Nature and Piccolo's intellect) and the raw power of the people he absorbed. Every time he uses one of their techniques in the manga, it's a technique that he had seen before (Majin Buu was established extremely early on to be able to copy any technique he saw). Not to mention that there's literal evidence against Buu getting memories from the people he absorbs, because he doesn't recognize Goku as anybody other than "That guy with the weird transformations" despite having absorbed both Piccolo, Goten and Trunks at that point.
Toriyama might've been a gag loving shitlord, but as a storyteller, he was remarkably consistent about details like this sometimes.

There's also that time where Salagir made Broly: Second Coming canon to his story but rewrote it so that Goku appears at the very end by teleporting in Super Saiyan 3, in front of Vegeta and Gohan pre-Buu Saga and blasts Broly into the sun with them. This alone completely destroys the Buu Saga because it would've meant Vegeta should've already known about Goku having 3 and wouldn't have even bothered with the Majin Vegeta shit because it wouldn't have been enough.
Luckily, somehow Vegeta didn't notice the fucking world shaking overwhelming surge of power next to him, and neither did Gohan.

But one of the biggest smoothbrain moments of all was his interpretation of Bardock: The Father of Goku.
Where the average intelligence watcher will watch it and have the takeaway of "Damn, despite having been shown the future, it was a future that Bardock couldn't avert, and perhaps even contributed towards, a fitting punishment from the aliens who Bardock's group just got done genociding."
Salagir's response was "???? sacre bleu! Why didn't Monseiur Baddick use his future telling power to change the future?!"
So in his telling of Bardock's story, the alien that gives Bardock the future telling ability despite having had his entire race genocided at Bardock's hand goes "Ayy, I gotchu bro! Here's the ability to see the future, change it and kill the tyrant of the universe so you guys can be the new tyrants!"
and the future telling stuff only happens in that universe alone and no other.

Fuck it's such a poorly done story, yet it first came about in the time of the Dragon Ball drought where there was no content whatsoever, so it got some people to read it (Though the readership has mostly disappeared over the years, from what I can tell. Though Salagir lies and says that the reader number has stayed static for the past 20 years, lol). It had enough cultural sway at some point that a few official dubs even started calling Freeza's Race "Frost Demons", which is all Salagir.

To be fair, Super tried to do something similar IIRC. That's not saying much, since Super is complete shit, but I seem to remember the show implying, if not outright stating, that Goku got sick because he was finally reaching the limit of what his body was capable of. Vegeta suggests something similar when Goku wants to train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

It didn't last because Super can't be consistent for more than two episodes (at best). Still, though, it's something that appeared in a Canon Series™, albeit very briefly.
I can't quite recall what you're talking about, it sounds like you might be talking about when Goku got Delayed Onset Ki Disorder? But that wasn't from training his body to his limit or anything, that was because he used fucking Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10 and pushed himself way past his current limit.
 
I can't quite recall what you're talking about, it sounds like you might be talking about when Goku got Delayed Onset Ki Disorder? But that wasn't from training his body to his limit or anything, that was because he used fucking Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10 and pushed himself way past his current limit.
I must be misremembering that part, and I can't find a clip of the checkup in isolation to check. Vegeta definitely talks about being close to their natural limits, though.

Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdN1GeQGKE&t=71
 
I think hearing that combination of words a long time ago was when I realized how stupid Super was. It was either that or fuckin "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan".
Heroes still got that beat.
Introducing
Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker

Yet somehow, for as retarded as Heroes is with the fanservice wank getting outrageous, it did actually have some villains who were conceptually quite cool.
Hearts and Mechikabura (As in Mechikabura, Salagadoola, Bibbidi, Bobbidi Boo) are both superior villains to anything Super did.
Hearts being a guy who has devoted his existence to killing the gods because they're incompetent, callous retards.
and Mechikabura is just a DB version of MegaSatan, expanding on the Demon Realm before Daima made it all goofy.

Compare that to Super's frankly bland selection
Lazy Catman with sliding powerscale
Freeza (Again, Again)
Penis Head Assassin Man
School Shooter Kaioshin and Evil Goku
Man with one personality trait, which is that he's strong
Broly (Again)
Cell if he was a furry
Guy who wishes to be stronger than anyone else alive.
Guy who wishes to be stronger than that guy that made the wish.
Cell (Again)
Freeza (Again, Again, Again)
 
I've been watching the original DB and really enjoying it but it's really boring that everyone jobs so that Goku can come in and effortlessly win. Best fight in the series so far has been Tien vs Yamcha, what a damn show.

I wish I could delete Bulma from the show. She's insufferable.
 
I've been watching the original DB and really enjoying it but it's really boring that everyone jobs so that Goku can come in and effortlessly win. Best fight in the series so far has been Tien vs Yamcha, what a damn show.

I wish I could delete Bulma from the show. She's insufferable.
Eh, Goku does his fair share of jobbing in Dragon Ball too. Though usually he just jobs so he can be given a vaguely justified powerup almost immediately afterwards (except the "I've written myself into a corner" water, which isn't at all justified)

As for Bulma, well you sorta get your wish granted when it switches over to the Z era, where she's just reduced to glorified tech support.
 
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