US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

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Current members of the House of Representatives
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Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
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You know what Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness means?

I only understood it very recently. Apparently Happiness meant, to the Age of Enlightenment, something much fuller than we usually mean it now, in its pure hedonic sense. It meant something very much like the Bible's "flourishing," the Greeks' "eudaimonia," the Orthodox's "theosis." A state of genuine, Godlike (Aristotle was a deist) well-being, or perfection, in which a person has met all of their basic needs (physiological, social, a more refined need for aesthetic beauty) but also has meaning in their life and virtue. They are at peace internally, they've achieved an ideal equilibrium in their personality. They've become what God meant for them as a little god in the sense of a being able to reckon with morality and yet responsible and mature enough in it to act rightly.

Pursuit didn't mean chasing after. It meant pursuit in the sense that we say someone has "a pursuit." A hobby, a career. A thing you work towards, continuously. Constant effort and struggle, like gardening a field, to become that person you were meant to be. The Pursuit of Happiness. Presbyterianism has a similar slogan, Burning but Flourishing, that draws on the visual motif of the Burning Bush for the same idea, but with a focus more on the suffering (burning) that purifies us than the toil (pursuit) we put in.

And since a person's actions can carry no moral weight - can MEAN nothing - without choice, you have Liberty. Coerced actions are dead. Only by our decisions do we shape who we are as people. And so Liberty exists to serve the Pursuit of Happiness. This isn't my own philosophizing; I'm very new to this, but there is a body of writing on how ancient Christianity (back to the Orthodox and Catholics) invented the concept as we know it. Edit: It goes back to the Greeks; Christianity is traditionally built off of virtue ethics, not consequentialism, not deontology.

And finally, you can't have Liberty either if you're not drawing breath.

Life to support Liberty to support the Pursuit of Happiness.

Death is a part of the natural world, but unnatural death - the death we inflict on each other - is an evil, because in taking that away it takes everything else with it. People will look back on our times, one day, and be horrified that we ever allowed a thing like this to happen. It is eviler than slavery. The world tried to take Liberty away; now it goes after Life instead.
Nail this quote to a wall.
 
One thing I always found interesting, is how exactly did he do that? I'd say most people agree with trump's view on abortion (rape, life of mom, incest personally, but should go to the states)
In addition to others' earlier replies to your post, I'll add that Trump also benefited from supporting the more realistic-minded factions among the pro-life movement against the absolutist hardliner activists who insisted on pushing for all (as in, total outlawing of abortion with no exceptions anywhere) or nothing, every time, and pretty much always end up with 'nothing'. I wouldn't necessarily classify the former as 'moderate' because a lot of their number - people like Kristan Hawkins and organizations like her Students For Life - generally also want to end abortion altogether (not all of them are that way, but many are), but they're less over-the-top militant about the issue and have a much more realistic approach where they'll settle for the earliest ban they can realistically get passed on a state-by-state basis.

What happened with the Florida abortion amendment last November is a pretty good example. Trump was originally going to vote for it and said as much, which got major backlash from the pro-life crowd; however instead of going full retard and screaming that they'd never vote for him again or something like that, people like Hawkins and Marjorie Dannenfelser (head of an older pro-life org, the Susan B. Anthony List) reached out to him. They eventually persuaded him to change his mind on that particular vote, even though he obviously never added a 'will ban abortion federally' plank to the Republican platform, and in return they helped shore up support on his right flank from the pro-life/social conservative camp as election day came ever closer.

As we know, the abortion amendment proceeded to lose in Florida; they got over 50% of the vote but still fell short of the 60% supermajority needed to amend Florida's state constitution - pro-life forces won more unambiguous victories with 50%+ of the vote in Nebraska and South Dakota, though (especially SD, which had and thanks to said referendum, still has probably the most restrictive ban on abortion in the country; it's banned from conception, no rape or incest exception, though there is a 'save the life of the mother' exception). It's a win-win: for Trump this vindicated his 'let the states decide' position, and for the pro-lifers obviously keeping/tightening abortion bans on a state level is a W too.

OTOH, more hardline activists like Lila Rose straight up declared that Trump being insufficiently zealous on the anti-abortion front meant they could not vote for him, no matter what else he did (including the above volte-face on Florida's abortion amendment). Nothing short of trying to pass a total federal ban on abortion ASAP, no matter how politically suicidal, would've been good enough for them. Rose actually backed down from her stance just before election day, after personally meeting and presumably getting buckbroken by Trump for two hours, but the damage was done and she's lost influence while the more realistically-minded pro-lifers enjoy having actual concrete successes to point to & build upon. As on many other issues, 2024 has made the line a lot clearer re: the grifters & perpetual activists vs. actual politicians among the pro-life camp, and Trump did well in identifying & aligning with the latter who actually have workable plans to fight and win as a functional part of his coalition, not just bitching about & fundraising off of babykillers for all time.
I thought that you were talking about abolitionism leading to the American civil war, and you probably are still talking about it in a more runabout fashion, but with that in mind, I'd really like to know if you're talking about Irish indentured servitude or if this was something more psychotic of the Democrat party's work. I'd also appreciate your literary source.
Something that's not talked about nearly enough re: the root causes of the ACW, I've found, is how Southern planter elite and pro-slavery ideologues went batshit insane as the years went ever closer to 1861. Early on in the nation's history Thomas Jefferson and his generation generally considered slavery a 'necessary evil' that would be abolished in time, and Jefferson himself favored the option of emancipating the slaves but then also punting them back to Africa. Then around the 1830s more radical types like John C. Calhoun started pushing the idea that slavery was not evil at all, but a positive good which benefited the niggers as much as their owners. This line of thought crossed over with the mudsill theory, which more generally held that society always needed a lower class to be exploited & bossed around by their betters in the upper class.

George Fitzhugh, as I see has already been brought up, took those ideas to their logical conclusion by pitching the concept of enslaving everyone regardless of race to the master class. After all, if slavery is so awesome for the darkies, then why would it not suit the poor white farmhand (who in all likelihood works with the slaves already!) or factory worker, or so the basic logic went. Also the aristocratic planters generally disdained poor whites, who they dubbed 'white trash' 'sandhillers' 'pineys' 'hillbillies' etc. and viewed as barely a step up over the blacks (the feeling was mutual, hence the existence of West Virginia and there being 100,000 or so Southerners who signed up with the Union Army), so enslaving them outright would not have been a terribly big logical leap for the plantocracy. And skin color was already a thin defense against slavery before the war: 'high yellows' who looked most like whites were prized as pleasure slaves (the 'Yellow Rose' in 'Yellow Rose of Texas' for instance was a 'high yellow' woman), and Union propaganda made absolute hay out of the white-looking slaves (especially the kids) they freed on the march, pointing to those as examples of why a Confederate victory would be a danger to the liberty of whites in addition to blacks.

Also, the Southern fire-eaters (the most extreme pro-slavery and secession types) were so deranged that they wanted to re-legalize the slave trade (which was outlawed by the US in 1807) even though that would've meant an unwinnable war with Britain (whose West Africa Squadron was seizing & blowing up slaver ships with no regard for ownership or sovereignty at this time, also the CSA was banking on the British helping them out once it became clear that they couldn't easily vanquish the damnyankees themselves). This faction was damn influential too, they weren't just some kooks with no power - they helped spearhead the fracturing of the Democrat Party in the 1860 election because Stephen Douglas wouldn't suck them off sufficiently and then engineered the early secessions, they only really started losing influence after the Civil War had started (thanks in no small part to their actions) and proved it would neither be short, easily won nor mostly bloodless. These niggers were so ratfuck insane that Jefferson Davis himself was unironically considered a moderate compared to them.
In broader society, the hard Medievalist (which was part of Romanticism as a whole) shift in Southern culture includes prioritizing the memory of Merry England over Greece and Rome (both of which were slave societies, but the point is the increasing comfort with authoritarianism and the identification of slaveowners with a caste of nobility), the revival of pageantry like jousts, profusion of honorary titles, the entire concept of "Southern knights" and "Southern chivalry," the retarded practice of calling Southerners "Southron" (a word cribbed from Sir Walter Scott), and so on. Our Man in Charleston dives (as a side topic to its story about a British diplomatic agent) into how fucking insane the Charlestonians (as the vanguard of Fire Eaters) were getting by this point, including wanting to reopen the Atlantic Slave Trade and possibly colonize Africa and romanticizing the idea of restoring the monarchy.

https://mises.org/mises-wire/george-fitzhugh-honest-socialist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fitzhugh https://harpers.org/2007/07/how-walter-scott-started-the-american-civil-war/
To your impressive post I'll just add that the Southerners in particular identified with the Normans who conquered England, and the damnyankees as the Saxons who were conquered. The Norman Conquest, of course, was a brutal affair in which the Saxons were reduced to serfdom, robbed of their land and any meaningful political representation, leaving them under the boot of a new all-Norman nobility; the Normans further centralized power in England (into their hands, of course), abolished the Witanegamot (the Saxon proto-Parliament, England wouldn't have anything resembling representative government again until the Magna Carta) and even effectively abolished private ownership of land in theory (all land in England was henceforth held to be the King's property, all the nobles were technically just renting it & the attached Saxon serfs from him). And that's when they weren't outright genocided and their territories reduced to wasteland.

Suffice to say, this did not bode well for any poor white (Yankee or otherwise) - or 'Saxon' - who fell under the increasingly deranged planter aristocracy's power as time went on.
 
Does this include Deepfake NON PORN? Like making deepfake videos of a president saying that they should bomb detroit or something?
Come on nigga we all know it’s going to be the ladder. Jersh is gonna have to deal with a lot of shit with DMCA 2 electric boogaloo.
 
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Apparently Happiness meant, to the Age of Enlightenment, something much fuller than we usually mean it now, in its pure hedonic sense. It meant something very much like the Bible's "flourishing," the Greeks' "eudaimonia," the Orthodox's "theosis." A state of genuine, Godlike (Aristotle was a deist) well-being, or perfection, in which a person has met all of their basic needs (physiological, social, a more refined need for aesthetic beauty) but also has meaning in their life and virtue. They are at peace internally, they've achieved an ideal equilibrium in their personality. They've become what God meant for them as a little god in the sense of a being able to reckon with morality and yet responsible and mature enough in it to act rightly.
I apologize in advance for sniffing my own ass, but this is what term happiness always meant to me, I knew from a very young age the difference between happiness and pleasure, and I learned the hard way that they weren't always correlated... there were some moments I was in pure tears but I felt that greater sense of being and purity because I knew I had done the right thing, or it felt "real" or came at a time when i was just generally well calibrated. And of course the inverse is true, if you're in a bad mindset pleasure feels like coal. I'm not sure why this came to me so early, I'll chalk it up to being raised right and having a really good childhood with great parents who guided me properly.

I was in 12th grade before I realized that a lot of people don't care about that and only care about surface level pleasures. It was really disturbing the first time I had a conversation with a close friend and realized this about him. But it made a lot of things make sense.
 
Most significantly, again, Fitzhugh wants to enslave Whites as well as Blacks, because his slavery ideology is not racial in character.
I'm just happy that there were some people in the South who just wanted to enslave poor people
Absolutely. In my opinion, I think he's fascinating and frightening because I do think that although he wasn't even close to the majority position of his day, I think he was the majority position of tomorrow, if you get what I mean? There's a clear strand from escalation to escalation. It's stuff that schools don't teach anymore, since half of them outright lie that the Founders were pro-slavery and write out all of the early abolitionism (like Jefferson's banning of the slave trade, or how exactly the North came to be free in the first place). Likewise, there used to be this (wrong) consensus that slavery was on the way out, but it wasn't, it was getting more intense economically and ideologically with time.
Which is why we need to have good media that depicts this take on history.
Jefferson Davis himself was unironically considered a moderate compared to them
Any good books on this stuff?
 
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To your impressive post
I'm flattered but I also feel like you just touched my pee-pee.

I'll just add that the Southerners in particular identified with the Normans who conquered England, and the damnyankees as the Saxons who were conquered. The Norman Conquest, of course, was a brutal affair in which the Saxons were reduced to serfdom, robbed of their land and any meaningful political representation, leaving them under the boot of a new all-Norman nobility; the Normans further centralized power in England (into their hands, of course), abolished the Witanegamot (the Saxon proto-Parliament, England wouldn't have anything resembling representative government again until the Magna Carta) and even effectively abolished private ownership of land in theory (all land in England was henceforth held to be the King's property, all the nobles were technically just renting it & the attached Saxon serfs from him). And that's when they weren't outright genocided and their territories reduced to wasteland.

Suffice to say, this did not bode well for any poor white (Yankee or otherwise) - or 'Saxon' - who fell under the increasingly deranged planter aristocracy's power as time went on.
This is excellent to bring up. You yourself probably know this for sure, but for the benefit of everyone else:
There was this big shift in the South from a Norman-Celtic rivalry to the bullshit "Celtic" ideal that took hold and is propagated today. And it was a cynical move. Can't prove (because I don't know that much about it) that it was conscious, a conspiracy, but in the early Republic the Backcountry/Appalachia/Upper South tended to be on opposite sides as the Lowland South, or at least the Deep South. Mountains were the hardest Patriots in the country (fighting even long before Lexington and Concord: look up the Watauga Association and the War of the Regulation for North Carolina/Tennessee as an alternative birth of America); South Carolina and Georgia, on the other hand, leaned hard Tory, were only stirred out of their torpor when Lord Dunmore threatened to take their Negro away, and it still was fought like a vicious civil war within the states. Where is America arguably won in the lead-up to Yorktown? Kings Mountain, a battle fought entirely by Americans (Loyalist and Patriot).

(Jimmy Carter tried to write a novel of it, The Hornet's Nest, but it sucked and I couldn't get far into it.)

The ethnic sectarianism continued on through Jeffersonianism, Jacksonianism (Calhoun was Scots-Irish Mountaineer, but he aligned heavily with Charleston, and his rivalry with Jackson was vicious).

It's basically in the immediate lead-up to the war that suddenly the planters start caring so much about their "Celtic" heritage that they used to despise. Around the time they need hordes of Appalachians to do their dying for them. And of course you get the whole story of Appalachian Southern Unionism and on and on it goes, but just like the Lost Cause shit, the planters win the long game because they manage to convince the Appalachians themselves (through spin on the textbooks, monuments and Yankees preferring to think they did everything alone) that they were uber-Confederates fighting some kind of Jeffersonian war for their glorious Celtic freedom.

It pisses me off.
 
I apologize in advance for sniffing my own ass, but this is what term happiness always meant to me,
Then you just got it earlier than me! I've had that happen with lots of things, particularly where Christianity is concerned, that I just didn't get it when other people got it effortlessly. I didn't get the Garden of Eden's full significance as allegory, for example, until I read The Plague Dogs by Richard Adams (which reinterprets the story to make a point about animal cruelty). I didn't get the Book of Job until I learned the economic calculation problem and that big hurricane happened, and then I understood how this narrow lesson (that no man can understand the economy, and woe befall you were you to try to run it yourself) is just a small slice of a bigger moral truth (no man is in any position to tell God how the world should be).

I knew from a very young age the difference between happiness and pleasure,
Pretty much. Happiness being conflated in the wider culture with a specific emotion that... well, I don't know what else to call it but happiness, for it's more than pleasure, but you know exactly what I mean. Joy, enjoyment, the warmth inside that attends pleasure. Maybe it is just pleasure.

and I learned the hard way that they weren't always correlated... there were some moments I was in pure tears but I felt that greater sense of being and purity because I knew I had done the right thing, or it felt "real" or came at a time when i was just generally well calibrated. And of course the inverse is true, if you're in a bad mindset pleasure feels like coal. I'm not sure why this came to me so early, I'll chalk it up to being raised right and having a really good childhood with great parents who guided me properly.
My folks were pretty wise, but I think they struggled for the vocabulary for it. My Pa would often say, for example, that it's wrong to seek happiness but fine to seek contentment. But then it turned out that his conception of contentment was basically the same as Epicurus' happiness, which is far from a hedonistic mindset.

I was in 12th grade before I realized that a lot of people don't care about that and only care about surface level pleasures. It was really disturbing the first time I had a conversation with a close friend and realized this about him. But it made a lot of things make sense.
You know the meme about people being hylics? It's an ugly idea, but one I'm often drawn to.
I don't think hylics are real in the sense that Gnostics believe in them, but I think they're real enough in that many people choose to live like they're a hylic. We make ourselves into animals.

Any good books on this stuff?
Unfortunately, most of what I know about the era comes from bits and pieces in different places. I've read a lot about the Old South, including books, but it's hard much of the time to pin down a specific source, if one even exists. If I can think up some (I'll be honest, I'll totally forget this) I'll share.

For Jefferson specifically, some points I want to make about him are that he banned the Atlantic Slave Trade, banned slavery in the Northwest Territory (what becomes the Great Lakes states), put an anti-slavery rant in the Declaration of Independence that was later removed, and the obstacle to emancipation was his severe, inherited debt (you could inherit debt in those days against your will). On his deathbed they were supposed to raise money in a lottery (Monticello was the prize), but some fuckery happened that meant they never got the money they expected and his slaves were fucked over. Keep in mind, Jefferson has had this huge libtard smear campaign run on him for decades, so if the (in the retarded libtard worldview) Arch Prince of the Confederacy was a fairly good guy, what does that say about the others? But an interesting novel exploring the contradiction of the Revolutionary generation is Thomas Jefferson Dreams of Sally Hemmings, about his hot teen rape slave affair with Sally Hemmings.

Those are normal socialist opinions, alright. Just, what the fuck did 'socialist' mean before they had their Council of Nicea?
Whatever the fuck you wanted! He was a genuine socialist in that he believed, essentially, in the rule of some people by others, in artificial communities, for the purpose of saving them from evil capitalism. He was his own branch. Socialists cope and seethe all the time today about him not being a socialist because <words words words>, like they do with National Socialist Superstar Adolf Hitler.

Their Council of Nicaea would probably be the Second International? There's several big strands in the Western world. Utopian socialism was what got it started with Charles Fourier (also the guy who coins the word "feminist" and was a literal cuck fetishist). They're basically Victorian hippies. Then Marx starts his branch, "scientific socialism," Marxism. Meanwhile, anarchism and related retard ideologies were common, Bakunin being the big guy there. Finally, liberalism had its retarded movement and split into (in America) libertarianism and progressivism and (in Europe) classical liberalism and social liberalism/Fabianism/gradualist socialism.

So, you've got:
Utopians
Marxists
Anarchists
Christian socialists and distributists
Progressives/boring everyday "socialists"

And Fascism and its offshoots (Nazism, Arab socialism, etc.) were also genuinely branches of socialism too, but like a socialism that tried to build a bridge back to conservative/reactionary values.
 
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Those are normal socialist opinions, alright. Just, what the fuck did 'socialist' mean before they had their Council of Nicea?
George Fitzhugh was kind of strange when it came to socialism.

Here are some of his quotes about it:
We treat the Abolitionists and Socialists as identical, because they are notoriously the same people, employing the same arguments and bent on the same schemes. Abolition is the first step in Socialism: the former proposes to abolish negro slavery, the latter all kinds of slavery – religion, government, marriage, families, property – nay, human nature itself. Yet the former contains the germ of the latter, and very soon ripens into it; Abolition is Socialism in its infancy
We entirely agree with the socialists, that free competition is the bane of modern society. We also agree with them, that it is right and necessary to establish in some modified degree, a community of property. We agree with them in the end they propose to attain, and only differ as to the means. [...] What madness and folly, at this late day, to form society for human beings regardless of human nature. Yet the Socialists are guilty of this folly, and gravely propose to change man's nature to fit him for their new institutions. How much more wise, prudent and philosophical it would be to recur to some old tried forms of society, especially as we shall presently show that such forms of society have existed, and do now exist, as will remove all the evils they complain of, and attain all the ends they propose.
Land Monopoly, or the private ownership of lands by the few, civilizes the landless, by making them quasi-slaves- that is, slaves to capital. 'The land owners, would not produce luxuries, fine houses, fine furniture, fine clothes and fine equipage for themselves; nay, they would live, as savages, on the barest necessaries of life, had they to support themselves by manual labor. But desiring the luxuries of life, they say to the landless, we will permit you to live on ourlands and cultivate them, provided you will furnish us, not only with the necessaries, but also with whatever is beautiful or ornamental in architecture, in dress, furniture, equipage, etc., and with all the luxuries of the table. This is an inestimable blessing to the laboring landless millions, for it habituates them to labor, system, economy and provident habits, and leaves them, from the results of their own labor, after paying the taxes or' rents to the land owners, twice as much of the comforts and necessaries of life as the best conditioned savages enjoy. Thus begins civilization, and thus only can it begin. Where there is no slavery to capital there cannot possibly be any civilization.
 
Happiness being conflated in the wider culture with a specific emotion that... well, I don't know what else to call it but happiness, for it's more than pleasure, but you know exactly what I mean. Joy, enjoyment, the warmth inside that attends pleasure. Maybe it is just pleasure.
Reminds me of, I think it was Eric Weinstein, saying something to the effect of "we lost an emotion" when gay became another word for homos.
 
My folks were pretty wise, but I think they struggled for the vocabulary for it.
This is very common among boomer parents. To them it's all common sense because it was the norm back then, they never really had to articulate it or understand why it worked or why the alternative didn't because they never experienced the alternative.
I didn't get the Garden of Eden's full significance as allegory, for example, until I read The Plague Dogs by Richard Adams (which reinterprets the story to make a point about animal cruelty). I didn't get the Book of Job until I learned the economic
The amount of near perfect allegories in the Old and New Testament continues to amaze me as I get older, one of the most interesting ones is the degree to which the voice in your head fucks with you. You will notice at no point do demons or even satan directly harm people on earth. They just talk to them and convince them to fall for their worst instincts and fears, and lean them towards the worst course of action. That voice is the thing that always fucks you, usually more than the thing itself does.

There are loads of stories touching on this, but I actually think the most interesting interpretation is the gollum/smeagol dynamic from tolkein, and that's not a coincidence given tolkein's beliefs.
https://youtu.be/k1U1c5hdKGU?t=14
This is exactly how self destructive thoughts play out, anxiety, depression, confusion, anger, greed, all of it.

>Tells you not to trust or depend on others
>Tells you you're unlovable
>reminds you of the worst things you've done, "this is what you are to everyone"
>it Tells you it's the only thing keeping you safe "we survived because of ME" (anxiety, worry, greed, addiction, all have staying power because they convince you they're doing you a favor).
>When you stand up to it it just disappears, you realize it was never even really there to begin with. All in your head.

This also shows up in the bible where demons like people to engage with their ideas and rhetoric but demons do not like to be named directly. Once they're known they lose much of their power.

It's talking about what we now call mental disorders.
 
Any good books on this stuff?
James Abrahamson's The Men of Secession (2000) would be a good place to start for these not-so-lovable lunatics, the fire-eaters. For further reading you could also check out their individual biographies, such as The Life and Times of William Lowndes Yancey by John Witherspoon DuBose (2007) or A Fire-Eater Remembers: The Confederate Memoir of Robert Barnwell Rhett (written by Rhett himself, the 2000 edition was edited by William C. Davis I do believe).
 
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