Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Corn Flakes]

One of the dumber takes was that the Storyteller System and the World of Darkness was simulationist. Which means that it leans more on the mechanics and design than it does the character.

That demonstrates what kind of "person" (and I use the term loosely) would favor PbtA. If you think Storyteller is simulationist, I don't think you're qualified to understand the rules of tic-tac-toe, much less an RPG.

 

[Brain Problems]

Not super related, but have any of you played Caylus? Can you tell me a bit about it?

The board game or something else? The board game is tremendous and had its main beats stolen by the shittier, dumber, more popular Lords of Waterdeep euro game. It's kinda dry though but that's par for the course for that era/style of game but like most of the classics it still holds up enormously especially with the fact players have to interact with each other as opposed to sticking their heads down and playing multiplayer solitaire.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

The board game or something else? The board game is tremendous and had its main beats stolen by the shittier, dumber, more popular Lords of Waterdeep euro game. It's kinda dry though but that's par for the course for that era/style of game but like most of the classics it still holds up enormously especially with the fact players have to interact with each other as opposed to sticking their heads down and playing multiplayer solitaire.

Yeah the board game. Thanks for the recommendation. Caylus looked really interesting.

 

[Ghostse]

The HP Lovecraft Historical Society do an entire props bundle for that campaign. It's really insanely above and beyond but it sells (and is very impressive).

https://store.hplhs.org/collections/games-props/products/masks-of-nyarlathotep-gamer-prop-set

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Honestly, the hundred odd dollars it costs is quite reasonable for what you get. And they re-did the scroll to fix some errors in the Chinese!
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I think this has to be the End Boss of all table top prop efforts.

that's some high effort shit right there

I've never understood people issue with flyers if you have a setting that has winged races the world will account for it unless they are a rarity. Though then i'm working in a group of slavers that are tracking the group down specially tuned to bring down the birdy and drag them away.

I also add things like leadened arrows that make you roll an end check and if you fall you become heavier thus losing the ability to fly for a few turns.

My issue is this:
Flying creatures the size of humans have been almost all thermal-riding gliders with windspans near that of a cesna because of the caloric requirments of flight. Bones would be hollow. INT would be low because a large brain is heavy and doesn't aid in flight.
Bird-people would have d0 hitdie, heavy int penalties, and the flight would be nearly unusable in combat.
addding to that:

Because we actually have no intuition at all for what the world would look like if random people could just take off and fly. The Grand Canyon is an impassible barrier to humans and just nice scenery to a hawk. At-will flying is fundamentally intuition-breaking, trivializing all kind of barriers and designs, makes hash out of lots of premade dungeons, and generally makes running the game world more a pain the ass, because now I have to rethink things, and I can't just pull a module out of a sheaf and run it.

And yet, the players would probably object if I redesigned the game world on the fly so that things like security made sense, e.g. every walled city having tall watchtowers throughout with sharpshooters who shoot airspace violators on sight, so you can't just bypass the gate guards.

This right here. Flight breaks so much shit because of the unrealisticness of flight.

I saw this headline this morning and had myself a good laugh. "Highly Anticipated"

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I made some shitty memes

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Won't deny I lol'ed but that takes away zero of your other points.
I guess if D&D is joke now...

Silvery Barbs

I'd ban it because its from the Gay Prom book.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

That demonstrates what kind of "person" (and I use the term loosely) would favor PbtA. If you think Storyteller is simulationist, I don't think you're qualified to understand the rules of tic-tac-toe, much less an RPG.

The Forge appears to have been patient zero of the problems with indie rpgs. Lots of talk about trying to breakdown rpg mechanics in an academic sense, trying to understand why these nerds love to play rpgs.

I get wanting to find some essential truth that would make rpgs important, but at the end of the day, it’s playing pretend but with rules. Instead of picking up a stick and slashing at imaginary goblins, we get statistics and dice rolls to demonstrate combat. We get detailed worlds to explore and develop unique characters to escape reality for a moment. It’s entertainment.

The other big issue the Forge had was how to get people (often women) into rpgs. Discussions on rules being complex and trying to explain settings to audiences not engaged with such fantastical universes. It seems that is how we got the solution of rules-lite, GM-less (or GM-full as they called it), bare bones lore rpgs.

 

[Adamska]

The other big issue the Forge had was how to get people (often women) into rpgs. Discussions on rules being complex and trying to explain settings to audiences not engaged with such fantastical universes. It seems that is how we got the solution of rules-lite, GM-less (or GM-full as they called it), bare bones lore rpgs.

I love how they unironically all say without realizing how it comes off "yeah, women are too fucking retarded to play simple rules based games. We need to dumb it down for them because their brains are too smooth to hold the crunchy numbers.."

So progressive and insightful, and not a statement of why they were the ones who didn't get the concept as simple as rolling a few D10s or doing a hand gesture to denote an act in a LARP.

 

[AnOminous]

The other big issue the Forge had was how to get people (often women) into rpgs.

Women aren't into that shit because they're vastly less likely to be autistic like us!

I love how they unironically all say without realizing how it comes off "yeah, women are too fucking retarded to play simple rules based games. We need to dumb it down for them because their brains are too smooth to hold the crunchy numbers.."

So progressive and insightful, and not a statement of why they were the ones who didn't get the concept as simple as rolling a few D10s or doing a hand gesture to denote an act in a LARP.

And other than the obvious misoggyknees, they can't cope with the fact women don't WANT to sit around pretending to kill gobbos and kobolds and orcs and shit while rolling dice because they're NOT AUTISTIC.

Quit trying to force them to play RPGs they DO NOT WANT TO PLAY anyway. If you're a dude, and you have a significant other, you playing RPGs is something they TOLERATE (like 90% of the time). They do not want to join in and if they do it's because they love you enough they put up with what an idiot you are.

 

[The Ugly One]

And other than the obvious misoggyknees, they can't cope with the fact women don't WANT to sit around pretending to kill gobbos and kobolds and orcs and shit while rolling dice because they're NOT AUTISTIC.

Quit trying to force them to play RPGs they DO NOT WANT TO PLAY anyway. If you're a dude, and you have a significant other, you playing RPGs is something they TOLERATE (like 90% of the time). They do not want to join in and if they do it's because they love you enough they put up with what an idiot you are.

They're all ultra-lefty retards, so a core part of their worldview is that if women don't like something, that thing is intrinsically oppressing them just by being the way it is, and thus needs to radically change. Not that anyone should actually know anything about what women like, of course, girls have cooties.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

I love how they unironically all say without realizing how it comes off "yeah, women are too fucking retarded to play simple rules based games. We need to dumb it down for them because their brains are too smooth to hold the crunchy numbers.."

So progressive and insightful, and not a statement of why they were the ones who didn't get the concept as simple as rolling a few D10s or doing a hand gesture to denote an act in a LARP.

The posters in the Forge did not suggest that women were incapable of playing rpgs. Just recognizing that women often played differently.

The complaints about complexity were regarding what they considered “gamist” rpgs. Min-maxing, heavy crunch, and the like.

The Forge Archives are a fascinating trove of rpg discussion, especially the RPG Theory section. But there’s more, like a whole subsection on Evilhat games. We’ve got a goldmine of high-brow rpg nerds here.

Edit: I have to add this. There’s another forum that is without the archives, but includes some stuff on Apocalyse World. A thread titled ‘Sex and the Battlebabe’ has one of the creators of Apocalypse World, Vincent Baker, saying that the sex moves aren’t optional.

Then why the fuck did you that the sex mechanic was optional, you greasy, shy coomer? Might as well come out and say that the players are supposed to routinely have sex!

 

[Hikaru86]

Meanwhile, I trying to reclycle some ideas from old d20 modern setting, mostly Genetech and throwing thing at wall with chatgtp to see what sticks, but the results... I just don't liking it, I just want to play beastman ex-soldiers maybe doing odd jobs in some 3rd World Country and living a normal-ish life, because the whole "well, someone really go nuts with genetic manipulation in the 70s" is out and everyone know about it for almost 20 decades in my idea for setting. But Chatgtp keep bring "social comentary" and all kinda of tired cyberpunk cliches, and "you probably have PTSD and shit, and need to trauma dump every 5 seconds". Its annoying.

 

[AnOminous]

They're all ultra-lefty retards, so a core part of their worldview is that if women don't like something, that thing is intrinsically oppressing them just by being the way it is, and thus needs to radically change. Not that anyone should actually know anything about what women like, of course, girls have cooties.

That's not true though. There is a stereotype, and it is correct, of females being healsluts, who only heal their dumbass boyfriend who brought them in.

This stereotype is not entirely inaccurate. However, one of the best healer stereotypes, who was actually the girlfriend of a regular in a game I played in, had no such preference and basically told her boyfriend if he wanted heals, he'd best get some kills, and based her heal strategy on maximizing kills.

You want those heal spells? You'd best be putting out some damage.

She literally called him a bitch because she let him get killed when he was being useless.

She dumped him later. Too bad. She was a better addition to the party than he was.

 

[Adamska]

and if they do it's because they love you enough they put up with what an idiot you are.

Or they too have some of the tism and like it. But yeah, it's rare due to the sort of game this is.

Then why the fuck did you that the sex mechanic was optional, you greasy, shy coomer? Might as well come out and say that the players are supposed to routinely have sex!

I fucking hate this little rat being so scared of being cancelled. Darrick Dishaw, or Venger Satanis at least knew his nature. And the biggest and most damning thing of all is Cha'alt is more of a setting and has more per value than this shit.

You have to really fuck up to make me say I'd rather deal with Cat Milk than you.

 

[Ghostse]

I fucking hate this little rat being so scared of being cancelled. Darrick Dishaw, or Venger Satanis at least knew his nature. And the biggest and most damning thing of all is Cha'alt is more of a setting and has more per value than this shit.

I hate Derrick and his Coomer Clownslime World, and I also completely agree:
Derrick wanted to make "sleazy gonzo" world to have a wank fantasy and I cannot deny that he did just that and completely owns it.

I thought it would be impossible to make something worse than Cha'alt but that faggot found a way by making a gonzo sleasy world to have a wank fantasy but the trying to walk it back so he isn't canceled for being the monumental coomer that he is.

Additionally, reminder that Dogs in the Vineyard was allowed to go out of print because this faggot was concerned about a game justifying the colonization of America.

 

[Adamska]

Additionally, reminder that Dogs in the Vineyard was allowed to go out of print because this faggot was concerned about a game justifying the colonization of America.

Did this dude fry his brain on weed, or did he get punched to having a CTE? Because I can't believe he wrote that after what the fuck Apocalypse World was.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

The Forge was full of faggots and no revisionism will ever change that.

 

[Henri Barbusse]

I think the only PbTA game that took the sex move mechanic from Apocalypse World is Monsterhearts and that's for simulating Twilight/Buffy/urban fantasy where it fits the genre a lot more. Plus the playbook that has hypnosis powers in Monsterhearts is the Vampire whose sex move triggers when they refuse to have sex.

 

[Adamska]

I think the only PbTA game that took the sex move mechanic from Apocalypse World is Monsterhearts and that's for simulating Twilight/Buffy/urban fantasy where it fits the genre a lot more. Plus the playbook that has hypnosis powers in Monsterhearts is the Vampire whose sex move triggers when they refuse to have sex.

Well that's a downsell for that book for me, since it sounds like they didn't even bother to seriously tinker with it. It's less BAD per say, but the system intrinsically needing fucking is still a big fat failure to me.

Just gonna be blunt: RVMA and Flying Circus are the best of the bunch, and it's because both were smart enough to cut out the sex mostly. Admittedly Flying Circus did still mention it, but it was in reference to the wild characters you often saw in WWI era air corps, since you tended to be essentially cheating death all the time. Even then it was just a nod to the idea; it wasn't a key mechanic. The key mechanics were in dogfighting and air missions, as well as just going about on the town or trying to leg it back if you got shot down.

The ones who were smart enough to change it from a fucking mechanic to an interaction mechanics already are consistently less shit.

 

[Henri Barbusse]

Well that's a downsell for that book for me, since it sounds like they didn't even bother to seriously tinker with it. It's less BAD per say, but the system intrinsically needing fucking is still a big fat failure to me.

Just gonna be blunt: RVMA and Flying Circus are the best of the bunch, and it's because both were smart enough to cut out the sex mostly. Admittedly Flying Circus did still mention it, but it was in reference to the wild characters you often saw in WWI era air corps, since you tended to be essentially cheating death all the time. Even then it was just a nod to the idea; it wasn't a key mechanic. The key mechanics were in dogfighting and air missions, as well as just going about on the town or trying to leg it back if you got shot down.

The ones who were smart enough to change it from a fucking mechanic to an interaction mechanics already are consistently less shit.

That's fair and I won't hold not liking the game that's supernatural teen drama with fucking against anyone. It's still a lot better than original Apocalypse World just by the virtue of being honest about what it is and using all the few mechanics base PbTA offers to push the game into what it's intended to be.

Your only base mechanical options in Monsterhearts are being a piece of shit. There's no pretending the sex moves are about character relationships, they're all about manipulating others to show vulnerability and taking advantage of that. You joked that Thirsty Sword Lesbians playbooks are abusers and abuse victims, but that's an actual intended mechanic in Monsterhearts. The Mortal gets xp by ignoring or excusing blatant problems with whoever they're dating and the Mortal's sex move is to turn the partner into an abuser. If you get multiple level ups (and the game specifies you can only get xp from the a source once per session), you can pick up moves that are about helping someone and being nice, but by that point, the game is likely over. It's a kind of gross and sleazy game about teenagers being monsters both literally and figuratively and that's what it wants to be. At least until 2e changed the game to make it less uncomfortable.

I have fond memories of the game, though I'll never play it again for two reasons a) it's limited in what it can do and I got all I want from it and b) the older I get, the weirder it is to play a game about teenagers abusing each others, sexually or otherwise.

 

[The Ugly One]

I like games about killing orcs with swords.

 

[Gingervitis]

It’s a shame about the TTRPG space being made almost entirely of communists, degenerates and a few normal guys like Macris, because I would love to see a Dick Tracy-esque game where you crack some eccentric criminal heads.