Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
Every now and again I'm reminded of that tertiary canon story "That Time I Reincarnated as Yamcha" (And it is tertiary canon because you could actually play as Yamcha (Reincarnated) in Dragon Ball Heroes) and I am upset by the fact that apparently, a Dragonball superfan with knowledge of everything up to Super couldn't even get to a level where he could easily defeat Saiyan Saga Vegeta without help from Goku. He even has the opportunity to kill Vegeta once and for all so he gets to keep Bulma, but he cucks out.
And then after Vegeta he just falls off forever. (Because the power of the main antagonist goes from 18,000/180,000 to 120,000,000)
Later on in a bonus chapter, he attempts to challenge Vegeta to a fight for Bulma after already giving her up for Trunks' sake(???), and he gets destroyed.

God, I can't imagine finding myself in a world I know just about everything about, where I can make wishes on a magic dragon, and where training gives me superpowers, and if I die I can go train and learn overpowered techniques before getting wished back, and just fucking giving up.
Then again, I'd probably want to fucking give up if I cheated with Guru's power unlock prior to Vegeta arriving and still found myself weaker than Vegeta, even though I had always managed to remain on par with Goku up to that point.
 
God of Nothing said:
lol what the fuck
Click to expand...
If that's to me, this isn't some shit I just made up: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball:_That_Time_I_Got_Reincarnated_as_Yamcha
It's a real thing that Shueisha approved of during the height of the Isekai Craze, but fuck man, way to make Yamcha cuck out.I guess it was inevitable, what with him being a Japanese guy.

As he makes his way towards the Gravity Room where she is located, he hides around the corner as he sees Bulma tossing an exhausted Vegeta a drink. Yamcha follows Vegeta outside where he challenges him to a fight. Before Vegeta can respond, Yamcha leaps at him though he is effortlessly defeated. As Vegeta walks away, Yamcha laying beaten on the ground talks aloud, saying that he can finally get over Bulma and for Vegeta to take good care of her.
Click to expand...
I'm supposed to believe that even with all the advantages in the world, Yamcha gets fucking pulverized and cucked.
 
  • Lunacy
  • Horrifying
Reactions: Pina Colada, Prophetic Spirit and God of Nothing
Symbol of the Chud said:
If that's to me, this isn't some shit I just made up: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball:_That_Time_I_Got_Reincarnated_as_Yamcha
It's a real thing that Shueisha approved of during the height of the Isekai Craze, but fuck man, way to make Yamcha cuck out.I guess it was inevitable, what with him being a Japanese guy.


I'm supposed to believe that even with all the advantages in the world, Yamcha gets fucking pulverized and cucked.
Click to expand...
This was at the height of people making fun of Yamcha/"The Yamcha Pose". IIRC that terrible baseball episode of Super aired around the same time. It was basically:
1748888787226.webp
 
  • Feels
Reactions: Pina Colada, Cave Fisher, Rick The Stick and 1 other person
I can't say it's not a little sad knowing that these characters I'm growing to love are going to basically vanish from the series/become completely irrelevant. I really like Launch's little character arc where her blonde form goes from a violent psychopath that attacks at the slightest provocation to actually being protective/helpful to the team. The fact that she's just allowed to carry real firearms everywhere (even to crowded tournaments) is really funny. Then, to my understanding, she basically completely disappears after the switch to Z. :(

I get that there are only so many useless characters you can have cheer the "real" characters on but I think she deserves a little better than like one cameo.

That aside, I'm really glad I started with DB instead of jumping straight into Z. It's really charming, though I do wish characters other than Goku got more screentime. It has a fantastic supporting cast of really lovable characters (and Bulma) but it's very rare they ever get to do anything. I'm kind of surprised they even allowed Krillin to beat Chiaotzu after that embarrassing throw against the funny vampire guy.
 
Last edited:
  • Feels
  • Like
Reactions: Pina Colada, Echinacea, The Lawgiver and 1 other person
Chin of Campbell said:
I can't say it's not a little sad knowing that these characters I'm growing to love are going to basically vanish from the series/become completely irrelevant. I really like Launch's little character arc where her blonde form goes from a violent psychopath that attacks at the slightest provocation to actually being protective/helpful to the team. The fact that she's just allowed to carry real firearms everywhere (even to crowded tournaments) is really funny. Then, to my understanding, she basically completely disappears after the switch to Z. :(

I get that there are only so many useless characters you can have cheer the "real" characters on but I think she deserves a little better than like one cameo.

That aside, I'm really glad I started with DB instead of jumping straight into Z. It's really charming, though I do wish characters other than Goku got more screentime. It has a fantastic supporting cast of really lovable characters (and Bulma) but it's very rare they ever get to do anything. I'm kind of surprised they even allowed Krillin to beat Chiaotzu after that embarrassing throw against the funny vampire guy.
Click to expand...
If you've never actually watched DBZ before, you're going to be disappointed by the whole "everyone jobs so Goku can win" problem you were having earlier, because after a certain point, Goku's presence in fights basically goes from a character who fights to a walking plot device who everyone basically spends waiting for so he can fight after he's dealt with some time-consuming circumstances that prevent him from getting to the fight quicker.
It's literally in every single fucking major arc of DBZ and was easily Toriyama's worst habit as a writer.
Still, he makes up for it with sick ass fight scenes and character designs.
 
  • Horrifying
Reactions: Xenomorphs Are Cute and Chin of Campbell
Symbol of the Chud said:
Later on in a bonus chapter, he attempts to challenge Vegeta to a fight for Bulma after already giving her up for Trunks' sake(???), and he gets destroyed.
Click to expand...
Fucking lmao even a reincarnated fan (or "fan") doesn't want Yamcha to win at anything. I think I get why Toriyama was more than happy to just die and leave it behind; yeah, he got rich off of it and so his family's gonna be living comfy, but there is no way he was actually 100% okay with this.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Rick The Stick
Kari Kamiya said:
Fucking lmao even a reincarnated fan (or "fan") doesn't want Yamcha to win at anything. I think I get why Toriyama was more than happy to just die and leave it behind; yeah, he got rich off of it and so his family's gonna be living comfy, but there is no way he was actually 100% okay with this.
Click to expand...
It wasn't that he didn't want to win, he actually had second thoughts by that point about letting himself get cucked for the sake of Trunks as this was after Trunks had arrived from the future (I think) (and nobody cares about Kid Trunks). So he tried to challenge Vegeta for Bulma and got no-diffed as a result.
You'd think that a Dragonball Fan would immediately lock on to the easiest way to get retardedly powerful at no real cost to yourself by figuring out a way to get in communication with the Supreme Kai (North Kai or Grand Kai, I guess) so you can tell him about Old Kai sealed in the sword which Shin should be able to breaak if that's the goal.
Then just bribe Old Kai with the means to get an unlimited amount of pictures of naked women by telling him about the internet or something, and voila, Potential Unleashed Yamcha.
There's so much that the story could do.

It even starts off pretty good, too! Where he goes to train with Roshi with Goku in Early DB, he drinks the Ultra Divine Water, and he even goes to Namek early to train with Nail and get his potential unlocked by Guru! But then his "goal" of not dying to a Saibaman is fulfilled and he just... stops? The story doesn't get to Buu before it abruptly ends, but I guess Yamcha forgot Gero impales his ass in the Android Saga, and Super Buu turns him into fucking chocolate.

But of course, Yamcha has to be a cuck loser.
It's such a frustrating story because you could easily do so much more with it if it wasn't just a "haha, Yamcha is loser" story.
Instant Transmission, Kaioken, God Ki, the Fusion Dance, the Potara, there's even a bonus chapter where he asks Bulma to make the EX Fusion rings from a videogame so he can fuse with Chaitzou (Who was also reincarnated) and they say they might be able to beat a Cell Junior, but that goes fucking nowhere either.
Fuck, you could even be extremely cringe and ask Shenron to make you into a Saiyan or something.
 
It feels like the Yamcha joke is as old as the internet itself. I wish the fanbase would just let it the fuck go already, it stopped being funny over a decade ago at the very least.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Pina Colada
Symbol of the Chud said:
If you've never actually watched DBZ before, you're going to be disappointed by the whole "everyone jobs so Goku can win" problem you were having earlier, because after a certain point, Goku's presence in fights basically goes from a character who fights to a walking plot device who everyone basically spends waiting for so he can fight after he's dealt with some time-consuming circumstances that prevent him from getting to the fight quicker.
It's literally in every single fucking major arc of DBZ and was easily Toriyama's worst habit as a writer.
Still, he makes up for it with sick ass fight scenes and character designs.
Click to expand...
Oh. :( I was hoping it'd get better when more "serious" characters get introduced.

Would you guys recommend that Kakarot game? I was kind of thinking of playing that. The only DB games I've played are the first and third Budokai games.
 
Chin of Campbell said:
I can't say it's not a little sad knowing that these characters I'm growing to love are going to basically vanish from the series/become completely irrelevant. I really like Launch's little character arc where her blonde form goes from a violent psychopath that attacks at the slightest provocation to actually being protective/helpful to the team. The fact that she's just allowed to carry real firearms everywhere (even to crowded tournaments) is really funny. Then, to my understanding, she basically completely disappears after the switch to Z. :(

I get that there are only so many useless characters you can have cheer the "real" characters on but I think she deserves a little better than like one cameo.

That aside, I'm really glad I started with DB instead of jumping straight into Z. It's really charming, though I do wish characters other than Goku got more screentime. It has a fantastic supporting cast of really lovable characters (and Bulma) but it's very rare they ever get to do anything. I'm kind of surprised they even allowed Krillin to beat Chiaotzu after that embarrassing throw against the funny vampire guy.
Click to expand...
Become completely irrelevant? Launch was worthless as soon as she was introduced. She doesn't actually go to the tournament and stays on the island while everyone else catches their flight. Meaning she gets written out of the arc she's introduced in within a handful of chapters, and she literally never does anything even remotely significant.

It's baffling why she was added to the cast in the first place. Even completely worthless characters like Oolong have a purpose in their initial arc, but not her.

Pretty much every legacy character people decry Z for mistreating were shat on in DB. Characters are meant to be utilized in the arcs they are introduced in and after that they're usually just leftovers to put over the new rival/big bad. Case in point, Yamcha is a loser of the highest order in DB even though he technically beat Goku in the first arc, twice. He lost to everybody after that. Roshi, the mummy, Tien, Kami. His only win is against the invisible man after an assist from Roshi gawking at his girlfriend's tits. He spends the entirety of King Piccolo doing dickall because his leg was broken by Tien an arc prior.

His death in Z was the closest he got to relevance post-arc 1. You can do similar writeups for nearly all of the characters in DB, like Tien. After his big showdown with Goku, he gets punked out by a spray can, gets his shit pushed in by King Piccolo's lamest minion (who Goku one taps) and then gets pantsed by Goku in their rematch who beats him without breaking a sweat this time.

The only person who doesn't get jobbed out like a shitter is Roshi. Even when he loses he gets some kind of out. He quits against Tien after being evenly matched with him and he dies without King Piccolo ever touching him (and he nearly won).

Chiaotzu is a complete shitter whose only purpose was to give Krillin a W and give Tien a sidekick to parallel Goku&Krillin. Crane School is just meant to be an evil version of Turtle School, with each character corresponding to a Turtle School member. Him losing to Krillin is not all that surprising even if Krillin was still in his shitter phase. The most surprising development with Krillin was him getting rehabbed in the last DB arc against Piccolo, which carried over into Z.
 
Last edited:
Lone Star said:
Remember, Dragon Ball was still just a gag series for the most part at this time. She was there for some jokes and that's all that she was really needed for, not any sort of deeper arc.
Click to expand...
Every main character in the first story arc had a purpose or character arc with some kind of payoff.

Oolong's a pervert who saves the day with his perverted wish.
Bulma is a horny teenager who wants to collect the dragonballs to wish for a boyfriend, which gets paid off with Yamcha.
Yamcha is an asshole bandit that's afraid of girls, who turns face, defeats a giant monster (with Puar) and gets the girl at the end in Bulma.
Goku's a retard who stays retarded. It turns out he was the monster that killed his grandfather so Yamcha cuts off his tail, paying off that storyline.
He also finds his grampa's old master and decides to go join him to become a martial artist too.

Again, this is the very first arc of Dragonball. "Gag manga" is an all too common copout when talking about DB. DB was an adventure story from a guy who until then only made gag series. So it retained a lot of his style going from Dr Slump, but it was already way more structured when it came to characters and it being centered around story arcs.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Cave Fisher
capitalBBustard said:
Every main character in the first story arc had a purpose or character arc with some kind of payoff.

Oolong's a pervert who saves the day with his perverted wish.
Bulma is a horny teenager who wants to collect the dragonballs to wish for a boyfriend, which gets paid off with Yamcha.
Yamcha is an asshole bandit that's afraid of girls, who turns face, defeats a giant monster (with Puar) and gets the girl at the end in Bulma.
Goku's a retard who stays retarded. It turns out he was the monster that killed his grandfather so Yamcha cuts off his tail, paying off that storyline.
He also finds his grampa's old master and decides to go join him to become a martial artist too.

Again, this is the very first arc of Dragonball. "Gag manga" is an all too common copout when talking about DB. DB was an adventure story from a guy who until then only made gag series. So it retained a lot of his style going from Dr Slump, but it was already way more structured when it came to characters and it being centered around story arcs.
Click to expand...
My general view of Dragonball is that the Pilaf Arc has a lot of Gag Manga influence (Oolong, the PP Candy, Monster Carrot, Pilaf openly breaking the fourth wall, the legendary Yamcha being bounced off the manga panel), but it slowly gets wrung out of it by Toriyama's editor until by the time of King Piccolo, the gag element is dead (It's at the time where Krillin gets his neck snapped that I'd say that the gag element is gone for good as a major influence until like, Buu). A lot of people who think that DB is ALL Gag never manage to get past the first arc for the slow toning down of the gag elements.
Launch has the unfortunate circumstances of being a character brought in just as Dragonball was transitioned from a more comedic adventure story to a martial arts adventure story, as the World Tournament Arc was clearly where Dragonball found its feet, and the place of a character who had the gimmick of being a woman who changed from a demure beauty to a violent firecracker every time she sneezed was dubious at best in the story that Toriyama ended up writing.
Launch's purpose as a character started and ended at "finding a woman for Roshi to coom to so he would train Goku and Krillin."

It's funny, because you can tell that Toriyama just wanted to write gag bullshit the entire time based on the fucking fierce comeback of super gag bullshit that is the Buu Arc where Toriyama had enough clout to basically write whatever the fuck he wanted because Dragonball was the most popular manga that literally every existed (and debatably, still has yet to be surpassed) and no editor could really control him any longer, where characters openly act retarded for no reason other than "funny" and to keep the plot going, and Buu himself is basically a weaponized gag character.
Hell, he even got to write the arc where the main villain was an old man and his rotund clownish sidekick like he wanted from the Androids Arc, lmao.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pina Colada, Cave Fisher and Rick The Stick
Symbol of the Chud said:
you can tell that Toriyama just wanted to write gag bullshit the entire time
Click to expand...
More like Toriyama is prone to write gag bullshit when left without proper supervision. It's just his natural writing style and humor. He needed editors like Torishima to focus his creative efforts, whose input Toriyama valued greatly. The idea that Toriyama was forced to make Dragonball the way it was against his will is ludicrous, Toriyama was the person pushing to make DB while everyone else wanted him to continue Dr. Slump.

He wasn't held back by his editors, they kept him from making mistakes. They told him if he was making something shit and he would course correct, like the Android 19&20 situation you mentioned. Torishima wasn't even his editor anymore, he just called Toriyama and told him he thought those two designs sucked as villains. Toriyama immediately pivoted to 17&18 because he valued Torishima's input that much.

With Buu, there's more going on than just gag bullshit too. The whole point of Buu at first was that he was subverting the big ominous villain build up by having him be a giant gumball monster. His personality was meant to be a dark mirror of Goku as a kid really, a childlike retard with a penchant for fighting and bouts of extreme violence. It wasn't gagshit for the sake of gagshit now that he's free of his evil editors. The whole story was a giant full circle, Buu learning Goku's moves just by seeing him perform them the same way Goku learned the kamehameha from Roshi just by seeing it once. Goku ends up mentoring Uub much the same way Roshi ended up mentoring Goku.

A lot of the gag elements are there just to differentiate Buu as a villain and to draw parallels between him and early DB Goku for the final story arc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Prof. Chaos
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back