Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[CrunkLord420]

These seem at odds with each other if he's infamous for gratuitous compatibility breakage. Also could you point out some bugfixes? I was looking for them earlier and legitimately couldn't find any, but maybe they were just buried under the heap of minor cleanup crap.

At a glance most of the bugfixes are other contributors. Metux seems mostly focused on moving to XCB and culling lines of code. It's rather ironic that people who say "you can't fix X11, it's TOO OLD AND CRUSTY". Now suddenly "ohnonono you can't clean up the codebase, it's too much churn!". Now we have a fork where metux can chop decades of technical debt that Red Hat has refused to even look at. I support his efforts and path. If I were to fork X11, having never worked on the codebase, the very first thing I'd do would be to start deleting code. Searching for dead #ifdef's and unused variables. That's exactly what metux is doing.

His efforts are clearly inspiring others to start looking at the X11 codebase, knowing they're not just going to be blown off by some Red Hat pozlord trying to prevent anyone from reviving the codebase they've desperately attempted to mothball. It's already happening.

Bugfixes

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/f397039d654e7ac8e0da19ab7ab86a0ee701472f

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/8c3c20f3fe1777f7971f5c07925492449da52637

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/c5f63fa138d8ba4ceb700f37f94563155467473a

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/9acf6a4b630ce6f9df2101960600507d90be788f

Code Removal/Simplification

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/9a82f5c30b9dcbc6ceb9b47c79136326b7d8404e

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/8c701832ea5bd2a8dbc2782a85f46867ab7e2187

Moving to xcb (there's a lot of these)

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/5038b4e4133c7e687ef442b2200e5e98fe64c90b

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/43b225c28cc43d07d6dd427474d18279bfee34fb

 

[DavidS877]

the very first thing I'd do would be to start deleting code. Searching for dead #ifdef's and unused variables. That's exactly what metux is doing.

Looking at the driver list I have to expect quite a few of them to get pruned. Is there really anything with any flavor of SunCG card that can run an OS that the new Xlibre will run on?

Honestly if I had spare time I'd love to help with the project, vintage C is about the only language I'm good at.

 

[CEO of Gay]

The goal is basically to rewrite the program to make it a cohesive piece of software that is easier to develop and maintain, breakage is inevitable and he has already proven his ability to fix breakage. Some users have expressed optimism about how quickly it will develop, but I would be surprised if he manages to get out of beta within a year, although people have said it's already usable.

Two important factors will be his ability to persist through the harder bits of the project, and his ability to inspire the same in his collaborators.

Starting a project is easy. Starting a project is fun. The world is exciting and full of possibility. You're going to make all the features and fix all the bugs and make the coolest thing. You start with great inertia and enthusiasm. Then the bugs, the feature development, and just keeping all the complexity managed gets harder. Even if you thrive on solving weird, bizarre bugs, you start encountering ones that cross your threshold from fun puzzle to mentally abusive. Even in a well organized codebase, coordinating a feature change or fixing a bug can involve touching things all over the codebase, and the process can turn into an un-fun slog.

This is where his ability to endure and persist will be essential. The Internet is littered with abandoned open source software projects where the author abandoned the project after the fun work of starting ended and the hard work of maintaining began. Jamie Zawinski of Mozilla née Netscape called this the Cascade of Attention Deficit Teenagers or CADT Model (Archive) for short.

Will Metux fall prey to CADT? Only time will tell.

I hope he succeeds. The seething from Wayland partisans would be hilarious.

 

[volatile puar]

Will Metux fall prey to CADT? Only time will tell.

I posted an interview he did a little earlier in this thread, and he didn't start working on X11 because he thought it would be fun, he believes X11 is a very important part of the free software ecosystem and it needs to be developed/maintained. Also, he's already been working on this for a few years so it's not likely he will stop until he's confident the project is in good shape without him.

 

[Betonhaus]

At a glance most of the bugfixes are other contributors. Metux seems mostly focused on moving to XCB and culling lines of code. It's rather ironic that people who say "you can't fix X11, it's TOO OLD AND CRUSTY". Now suddenly "ohnonono you can't clean up the codebase, it's too much churn!". Now we have a fork where metux can chop decades of technical debt that Red Hat has refused to even look at. I support his efforts and path. If I were to fork X11, having never worked on the codebase, the very first thing I'd do would be to start deleting code. Searching for dead #ifdef's and unused variables. That's exactly what metux is doing.

His efforts are clearly inspiring others to start looking at the X11 codebase, knowing they're not just going to be blown off by some Red Hat pozlord trying to prevent anyone from reviving the codebase they've desperately attempted to mothball. It's already happening.

Cleaning up the code is definitely the first step, as then it makes it easier to add new features and make it stable.

 

[botrix_fan]

I won't be moving over, it needs some more time to cook. Plus from what I can tell nvidia drivers might not be working due to ABI changes. Obviously this is a non-starter that must be resolved. Adults use NVIDIA cards, I'm sorry.

According to the README

Proprietary Nvidia drivers might break: they still haven't managed to do do even simple cleanups to catch up with Xorg master for about a year. All attempts to get into direct mail contact have failed. We're trying to work around this, but cannot give any guarantees.

Good luck getting anyone from Nvidia on on board.

 

[babaisyou]

Crossposting from the XLibre A&N thread, Phoronix has finally chimed in (Archive)

 

[SCV]

Analogous to conservatives obsessing over the "cultural Marxism" boogeyman, the reactionary programmers obsess over "computational Marxism". They essentially accuse Rust of bringing a flavor of Marxism into programming, by both the restrictiveness of Rust as compared to C and the cancerous Rust community.

Attached is the "ANTIOXIDANT MANIFESTO", written by a /g/-schizo.

He mis-spelled System76 as "Systen76".

 

[BigGuyOS 6 : Jovial Janny]

Crossposting from the XLibre A&N thread, Phoronix has finally chimed in (Archive)

The new plan to kill X11 is to roll back to X10.

 

[HalHalliday]

Crossposting from the XLibre A&N thread, Phoronix has finally chimed in (Archive)

Summary:
The guy is incompetent, evil nazi, that hurt copyright holders feelings. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT look at "XLibre". Don't have anything to do with "XLibre", "XLibre" is not a thing. Don't think for even a second that you can just fork stuff and work on it. That's only for competent people to do! Do you have a PhD from Harvard or 5 years at RedHat? And when was your last anal probing done by enlightened folx of X.org foundation? Never happened? Then know your place and stay in your lane! You incompetent swine, you broke the sacred Nvidia drivers, how dare you, I say! That sacred ceremony is only for Wayland people to do!

Fuck all this faggots.
I don't care if the guy isn't fucking perfect 100x rockstar engineer meme. The whole field is now filled with pajeets and trannies or worse corpo pajeets and trannies, or even worse: vibe coders. Even an average guy, if he stays humble and works on shit, will, in time, outcompete all of them. That's why everyone is running cover for them. I say, let the guy try. Who is he hurting? Not me. But the squicks are coming from the right places.

 

[Kola]

XLibrecuck lost. He's being unpersoned in real time

 

[CrunkLord420]

Crossposting from the XLibre A&N thread, Phoronix has finally chimed in (Archive)

Bad post from Michael. I know he's a Wayland fanboy, he's said as much before, gloating on the "death" of Xorg. But he's completely ignoring all efforts being made, no mention of migrating from Xlib to XCB. No mention of bugfixes. Just a misleading complaint about a revert. Genuinely misrepresenting the situation. I mean, he's putting his finger on the scale by saying "vote of no confidence" along with admitting to avoiding coverage. Bad "reporting", Michael.

We see the cycle in the forums. Oh no, you can't do any major changes to Xorg, it might break things. Immediately cease attempting to alter Xorg, please continue stagnation. Alternatively, please understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE to fix Xorg. Trust me, "developers" and "maintainers" (not actually) of Xorg said it, so it must be true! This is of course, repeated over and over on every forum forever. A constant cycle intended to prevent anything from happening ever. Metux has destroyed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of propaganda effort by Red Hat simply by showing everyone you can just fork the codebase and continue without the obstructionism and naysayers. The angry reaction really does say something.

Below encapsulates every X11 discussion that isn't talking about how metux needs to stop doing the thing that's supposedly impossible.

Good luck getting anyone from Nvidia on on board.

Yeah, not going to happen. There's discussion in the issues regarding workarounds. They're cooking.

 

[JustSomeDong]

Genuinely misrepresenting the situation. I mean, he's putting his finger on the scale by saying "vote of no confidence" along with admitting to avoiding coverage. Bad "reporting", Michael.

He's more a Commissar than an honest broker of information. What did you actually expect?

 

[Ferryman]

>that screencap

"I know of no person who could reasonably debug it- even as a user, and the code itself has become incredibly complex over time, accumulating a vast array of workarounds."
"That design (I'm told) was gloriously inefficient but hacked over time to be performant - often violating the principles in which it existed in the first place."

They apply this reasoning to X11, but draw the obvious parallel to systemd and they all start kvetching. Curious! Also that "we have no right to complain" faggot is peak sheeple. "I'm being fed shit, but since the cows are working very hard to produce that shit for free, I shouldn't complain." Gotta love the lack of self awareness.

 

[CrunkLord420]

He's more a Commissar than an honest broker of information. What did you actually expect?

Michael does a good job most of the time and I like how he lets people fight in the comments. But he's let it slip that he's Wayland biased. Maybe all that beer he drinks means he doesn't notice the 33ms of soupy cursor latency. (BUT AT LEAST IT NEVER TEARS!!!!)

t. gaming with vsync off since fucking forever

 

[JustSomeDong]

Michael does a good job most of the time

He ballwashes for "establishment" nix a little more than I'd like. The state of 'nix, and the entire OSS ecosystem, would probably be a hell of a lot better if these charlatans actually lived up to the principles they espouse.

 

[Zoosadist sadist]

XLibrecuck lost. He's being unpersoned in real time

The fact you actually have people getting unpersoned in the so called open source community over starting a fucking fork is the main reason why my ideal computer set up is shifting away from linux and towards Uncle Ted's cabin. If this guy persists in spite of all the ghouls trying to bully him into submission he's got my respect.

 

[HootersMcBoobies]

One of the Fedora package maintainers has started a Wiki page on migrating to XLibre:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/X11Libre

Archive

 

[CrunkLord420]

One of the Fedora package maintainers has started a Wiki page on migrating to XLibre:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/X11Libre

Archive

What an absolute mad man. I can't wait to see what type of drama evolves from providing options to users.

This is unacceptable, doesn't he know that the maintainer is critical of mRNA prophylactics? Let's all hear it, Safe & Effective™. We're gonna need to add another person to the un-personing list. In Red Hat controlled territory no less, tisk tisk.

 

[volatile puar]

What an absolute mad man. I can't wait to see what type of drama evolves from providing options to users.

This is unacceptable, doesn't he know that the maintainer is critical of mRNA prophylactics? Let's all hear it, Safe & Effective™. We're gonna need to add another person to the un-personing list. In Red Hat controlled territory no less, tisk tisk.

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they banned him from contributing solely because he's OK with X11 being forked.