US US Politics General 2 - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
https://www.senate.gov/senators/

Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
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Getting rid of them is more important than dying for Israel
I understand why you think that. You're probably an actual American without any hyphen. Remember though, you're talking to Jews. They have their own calculus. Endless death in a pathetic desert is something that activates them. They vitally thrive off it.
 
I would move to Geeenland the second it became America.

Yes, but you're probably unaware that Greenland was on the technocrat's wish list before 2024. There's one in Honduras and a few other places too. These won't be "America" any more than Musk or Thiel give two shits about America. These will probably act more like rich enclaves where they can do whatever they want, retreating here to pay zero taxes or not be accountable to any laws. Unless you're somehow connected, you're not invited to the party.
 
Wait a second: why can't Trump accomplish his goals without boots on the ground? You say that as a given, but you have to explain that first. I understand the urge to jump to "OMG BOOTS ON THE GROUND AAAAHHH!!!!" but you have to explain that part to me.
Airstrikes are the new gunboats for nations without shorelines. He doesn't need boots on the ground for any of it. Send in the B-2's, the Iranians radars are shit from the stone age so they can't get a lock, drop the bunker busters, and go home. Let Israel deal with the rest. World saved from nuclear weapons
 
Wait a second: why can't Trump accomplish his goals without boots on the ground? You say that as a given, but you have to explain that first. I understand the urge to jump to "OMG BOOTS ON THE GROUND AAAAHHH!!!!" but you have to explain that part to me.
First of all, the real goal is regime change. That’s impossible without boots on the ground. And highly unlikely even then.

But let’s just assume that it’s JUST about the nukes, because neocons never lie and are 100% hahnest when they say it’s the nukes.

Well, their nuclear program is literally under a goddamn mountain that even bunker busters likely won’t touch. (Strategic bombings have a pretty shitty track record when it comes to taking out industry. Look at WW2 where German production only increased despite a strategic bombing campaign with resources magnitudes higher than those available today.)

But hey, let’s just pretend I’m totally wrong. The bombing will go off without a hitch, no B2 shot down, Fordo totally destroyed. What’s to stop Iran from just starting over like they did before? But this time bury it even deeper or compartmentalized?

And we get right back to the only solution being either boots on the ground or a diplomatic deal.
 
But hey, let’s just pretend I’m totally wrong. The bombing will go off without a hitch, no B2 shot down, Fordo totally destroyed. What’s to stop Iran from just starting over like they did before? But this time bury it even deeper or compartmentalized?

And we get right back to the only solution being either boots on the ground or a diplomatic deal.
I think the hope is if we bomb them
Enough the Iranians will do regime change for us, I could see it happening, I could also see it turning into a brutal civil war. Honestly both work in the case, I just don’t think bombing alone will do it
 
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Wait a second: why can't Trump accomplish his goals without boots on the ground? You say that as a given, but you have to explain that first. I understand the urge to jump to "OMG BOOTS ON THE GROUND AAAAHHH!!!!" but you have to explain that part to me.
You can bomb a country from the sky, but you can't rule it from the sky. You need men on the ground to topple the current regime, set up one of your own, and patrol the streets/wipe out any resistance.

I think the hope is if we bomb them
Enough the Iranians will do regime change for us, I could see it happening, I could also see it turning into a brutal civil war. Honestly both work
There's no locus of resistance against the current Iranian regime. There's scattered pockets of resistance, but it's highly unlikely they can unite and topple Iran's government, especially when the bombing will probably kill more than a fair share of Iran's civilians, which will make them less likely to rise up against the Supreme Leader.
 
You can bomb a country from the sky, but you can't rule it from the sky. You need men on the ground to topple the current regime, set up one of your own, and patrol the streets/wipe out any resistance.


There's no locus of resistance against the current Iranian regime. There's scattered pockets of resistance, but it's highly unlikely they can unite and topple Iran's government, especially when the bombing will probably kill more than a fair share of Iran's civilians, which will make them less likely to rise up against the Supreme Leader.
You’d think that lesson was learned in Vietnam.
 
There's no locus of resistance against the current Iranian regime. There's scattered pockets of resistance, but it's highly unlikely they can unite and topple Iran's government, especially when the bombing will probably kill more than a fair share of Iran's civilians, which will make them less likely to rise up against the Supreme Leader.
What’s the demographic of these pockets why are they unlikely to unite? Are they just too different?
 
You’d think that lesson was learned in Vietnam.
Sometimes, a lesson must be learnt twice or thrice before the person learns something. I've seen it myself.

What’s the demographic of these pockets why are they unlikely to unite? Are they just too different?
Around a few of them are Christians who don't like the Ayatollah; most are just people living in squalor looking for something different. None of them are armed, and even fewer are willing to die for America. Especially if American bombs kill Iranian civilians. At that point, they'll just drive more people into the Ayatollah's arms.
 
When Trump orders the invasion of Iran, which is looking more and more likely, you will never see the right win anything ever again.
Let's be real, if Trump really does launch us into another forever war, it'll only take people about a decade to forget and vote Republican again, just like with Bush.
 
From what I see, he starts running because they fire at him. He was walking calmly, barrel down, when they were already aiming at him and appear to start firing. He wouldn't have reason to run otherwise, he wasn't looking at the shooters at all.
I was right in that the leftists were probably lying.

You were exactly on the nose in that he did not raise his rifle nose up until the 5150 people in vests started shooting at him, so he was running away.

 
I think the hope is if we bomb them
Enough the Iranians will do regime change for us, I could see it happening, I could also see it turning into a brutal civil war. Honestly both work in the case, I just don’t think bombing alone will do it
Is there any historical precedence for something like this ever happening outside of the neocohenservatives delusions? How young (or old and senile) are some of the people here? This didn't even work in the 20th century with any of the WWII air campaigns or Vietnam, it didn't work in Iraq, and it isn't going to work on a country in the 21st century whose people are far more educated on average than either of the former two cases. Iranians have had access to the internet for decades the same as anyone else here, they're well aware of the fact that Israel/ZOG want them dead. In what world would they want to side with the people who are responsible for creating economic hardship for them through sanctions and are now literally trying to kill them?
 
Everybody chants death to America. A bigger problem Americans actually face are the hordes of foreigners with their own enclaves that actively kill Americans and do organized crime smuggling drugs and weaponry. That's more important than dying for Israel. Massive portions of the Southwest have pretty much been given to Mexico all in but name. There hasn't been a President ballsy enough to just hand it to them officially in the name of decolonization. We have hordes of muslims here right now that were mass imported over the past couple of decades and groups of them are trying to secede by setting up Sharia Law zones like in Europe. Getting rid of them is more important than dying for Israel to import more muslims into the US once we bomb them out of Iran.
>dying for Israel
Again, where are the boots on the ground? Nowhere? Okay, then stop catastrophizing.
First of all, the real goal is regime change. That’s impossible without boots on the ground. And highly unlikely even then.

But let’s just assume that it’s JUST about the nukes, because neocons never lie and are 100% hahnest when they say it’s the nukes.

Well, their nuclear program is literally under a goddamn mountain that even bunker busters likely won’t touch. (Strategic bombings have a pretty shitty track record when it comes to taking out industry. Look at WW2 where German production only increased despite a strategic bombing campaign with resources magnitudes higher than those available today.)

But hey, let’s just pretend I’m totally wrong. The bombing will go off without a hitch, no B2 shot down, Fordo totally destroyed. What’s to stop Iran from just starting over like they did before? But this time bury it even deeper or compartmentalized?

And we get right back to the only solution being either boots on the ground or a diplomatic deal.
If regime change is the goal, then why aren't we sending troops?

Strategic bombing as a pressure tactic does not have a good track record, but striking critical industrial targets does. What's to stop Iran from starting over is they will get bombed again. That's the point: if we demonstrate that we're gonna keep blowing up their anthill every time, they only have two options: keep pursuing a stupid goal they can't accomplish, or cooperate. Also, your point about it being "too deep underground" underestimates the US military's ability to make conventional bombs that penetrate better. Furthermore, the complex still needs the surrounding infrastructure and cannot operate 100% independently.
You can bomb a country from the sky, but you can't rule it from the sky. You need men on the ground to topple the current regime, set up one of your own, and patrol the streets/wipe out any resistance.
Then don't these recent actions by Trump make you think regime change isn't the goal?

I agree with you guys that I do not want soldiers sent to Iran, but all you're doing is screaming that the sky is falling because Iran is getting bombed. It comes across as simping for Muslims.
 
You know it, we know it, the people defending it know it. The whole debate is just superficial kabuki. Some people want America to be a strip mall and some people want it to be a nation. The positions are incompatible and the tensions are rising.
If i was being generous to Thiel and Elon. They also want a strip mall. But have thought through that strip malls need supply chains and security and parking lots and people actually buying from them and what do you know? Sounds like alot of annoying nation stuff.

And after the example made of Jack Ma they all know the next host they were getting ready to move too either wont work or isnt ready.

Elon and Thiel are extending the planned EOL that globohomo had for America. They are allies of convenience only. That said you are a fool not to take their help so long as you are willing to do to them what they would do to you in the future.
 
If regime change is the goal, then why aren't we sending troops?
Because it isn't, apparently.
Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the fall of the Iranian regime is not the goal but could be the result of the Iran-Israel conflict. His comment comes as US President Donald Trump said he would decide about an attack on Iran in two weeks.

"The matter of changing the regime or the fall of this regime is first and foremost a matter for the Iranian people. There is no substitute for this. And that's why I didn't present it as a goal. It could be a result, but it's not a stated or formal goal that we have,” he said in an interview, adding that Israel alone had the power to remove all of Iran’s nuclear facilities whether Trump decides to join them or not.
I think Netanyahu telling Iranians that "now was the time to rise up" gave the implication of such. Similar to why the likes of Cruz is espousing regime change, it's an easy way to argue the moral necessity of the strikes/intervention even without the presence of a nuke-making capability. That's not to say Iran isn't capable or making progress towards making a nuke to warrant these strikes, but it allows you to cover multiple bases when justifying the conflict rather than just 1 (a claim of WMDs), which the US public has a negative history with, especially when said fact is communicated from the government. If you can foster the idea that attacking Iran is the right thing to do, then it justifies the US's policy of supporting Israel, and if push come to shove, the direct US involvement via air strikes or something else.
 
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