DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

The theater cut for Superman is allegedly still being patched together, they know they have a disaster and I really want Gunn to get treatment his predecessors got
If these reports are accurate, it suggests that there may be concerns within Warner Bros. regarding the level of trust placed in James Gunn's handling of Batman. A prevailing rumor is that investors are becoming increasingly cautious about entrusting Gunn with the Batman franchise, especially considering that "The Penguin" remains the only successful DC HBO Max series with broad mainstream appeal. Additionally, the broader WB focus appears to be less interested in projects like "Peacemaker." Investors are expressing a preference for more movies and series set within the Batman universe. Heck rumors of WB wanting Robert Patterson Batman be the DCU Batman won’t die.
 
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If true. It means WB has less faith in Superman compared to the Minecraft movie.
 
I so want this to happen, that happening means the whole thing is deader than dead and Gunn gets humiliated.
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What’s the consensus here on the direction a Superman movie should have? From what I can gather, the Snyder thing was a disappointment but now it seems like they’ve overcorrected and we’re heading into Silverado-ass, aw-shucks, lunchpail Superman. I don’t really have a dog (lol)
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in this fight, I just find it fascinating watching this character get culturally assblasted every decade.
 
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If true. It means WB has less faith in Superman compared to the Minecraft movie.
This decision is based on the belief that the movie won't be able to compete with other blockbusters releasing the same month
Like what?

Fantastic 4? Happy Gilmore 2? Tyler Perry's Madea's Destination Wedding? Bambi: The Reckoning? 40 Acres?

Fuck's sake.

Anyway: is it just me or is Nicholas Hoult not allowed to play competent characters? I haven't seen him in a ton of movies but every single one I have seen -- X-Mens, Mad Max, The Menu, The Order, Nosferatu -- he's either a dork who gets cucked or an unlikeable coward or a joke. Doesn't bode well for his Luthor.
 
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If true. It means WB has less faith in Superman compared to the Minecraft movie.
I went to Twitter to check out the original post because it's from February. The guy posting this is some kind of Zack Snyder superfan, the link he inserted for the Hollywood Reporter does not go to to a specific story, the Hollywood Reporter Twitter does not have any story like this in their archives. I seriously doubt this is true.
 
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What’s the consensus here on the direction a Superman movie should have? From what I can gather, the Snyder thing was a disappointment but now it seems like they’ve overcorrected and we’re heading into Silverado-ass, aw-shucks, lunchpail Superman. I don’t really have a dog (lol) View attachment 7606005in this fight, I just find it fascinating watching this character get culturally assblasted every decade.
I know that Snyder gets clowned for his decision to have Supes kill Zod but to me that made sense: Clark would do it but he would not be happy for it. Honestly, having Pa Kent tell him not to save someone is the one thing that should be mocked the most. It is almost sacrilegious.
 
The guy who posted this on Twitter actually had the word fake in his username. Why do people want Superman to fail so badly anyway?
Gunn

We like Superman here, I like Superman, he’s my favorite, but I’d rather see him never get a film again, than be whatever Gunn has bastardized him into.
 
What’s the consensus here on the direction a Superman movie should have?

I don't know if it's consensus, but to me, first and foremost it should be a Superman story, not a zany introduction to your supposed cinematic multiverse with ten other heroes iand 5 villains.

Don't necessarily need the origin story, everyone already knows it, and whatever your totally unique subverting expectations spin on it isn't going to make a good movie.

The important thing is that by the end, Supes figures out his place as a hero. Most likely this involves him trying to get too involved in shaping human events and learning that that's the wrong thing. Alternatively you could do it the other way where he is too aloof and learns he needs to get involved.

Stakes should be fairly low, no fucking space lasers, and really whatever threat there is shouldn't be a threat to Superman - only to the peolle he cares about (or to Metropolis in general, but not along the lines of destroying the whole city).

With the end result being that he is now a known quantity that villains will, in the future, have to account for, or ignore at their peril. Essentially that's his sacrifice - his anonymity and chance at a normal life. He beats the baddies by outsmarting them, not by punching them and smashing them through a building - although obviously he can use his abilities in their defeat. He doesn't just show up where the bad guys want him and beat them by being stronger. I, for one, am fucking sick of retarded Superman who takes nothing into account and reacts to every situation lile a 15 year old nigger.

It's really not that hard. Hire a charismatic actor and take one of the thousands of decent comic stories and adapt it. Everything is literally already in place.
 
Like what?

Fantastic 4? Happy Gilmore 2? Tyler Perry's Madea's Destination Wedding? Bambi: The Reckoning? 40 Acres?

Fuck's sake.

Anyway: is it just me or is Nicholas Hoult not allowed to play competent characters? I haven't seen him in a ton of movies but every single one I have seen -- X-Mens, Mad Max, The Menu, The Order, Nosferatu -- he's either a dork who gets cucked or an unlikeable coward or a joke. Doesn't bode well for his Luthor.
I first saw him in Warm Bodies, and I rather liked him in it. He’s a good actor and deserves a chance.
 
Why do people want Superman to fail so badly anyway?
Why do you suck off James Gunn and a multibillion dollar corporation with a handful of circle jerk accounts that do nothing but upvote James Gunn like it’s Reddit? Same shit that happens when people are still defending Saberspark and India on this site. Same thing people noticing YouTube James Gunn defense using the same talking points.
 
Why do you suck off James Gunn and a multibillion dollar corporation with a handful of circle jerk accounts that do nothing but upvote James Gunn like it’s Reddit? Same shit that happens when people are still defending Saberspark and India on this site. Same thing people noticing YouTube James Gunn defense using the same talking points.
Who do you think I am exactly? Also how the hell can I have an opinion on a movie I haven't actually seen? For all I know it could be crap and your right.
 
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What’s the consensus here on the direction a Superman movie should have? From what I can gather, the Snyder thing was a disappointment but now it seems like they’ve overcorrected and we’re heading into Silverado-ass, aw-shucks, lunchpail Superman. I don’t really have a dog (lol)
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in this fight, I just find it fascinating watching this character get culturally assblasted every decade.
Already sort of posted prior, but we already have great Superman adaptations that should work as a functional base for the character without needing to do a comics deep dive. STAS and JL are the most obvious candidates for the exact type of Superman people look for in current year. Superman is kind, but not a pushover, he is prone to being hot headed and playing by a “my way or the highway” mindset. Clark Kent is actually very competent and has a tendency to fuck with people, be it Lois or Luthor.

Other Superman adaptations to follow would be stuff like All-Star Superman, The Batman & Superman duology, vs The Elite, and LEGO (unironically he is pretty entertaining). A lot of these ones have very similar masculine traits as the DCAU, maybe giving Superman just a touch more humor in the cases of The Batman & Superman films. When doing humor, it should be Superman/Clark having a good amount of quick wit, something like below where he always feels on top, even if he is literally dying.


Controversial section - and long posting a film idea.

Now if I were to have to write a first Superman film and the base of a wider DC universe, the goal would be to portray these traits in a way that is digestible and likable to an audience. Superman needs some bases to where the average moviegoer can relate to him, which is where Synder constantly having a foot up his ass to show any levity killed him, and Gunn making him into a perpetual punchline will kill him. In the case of Synder, this scene of Superman being charming was really the only “human” moment we truly got, hence why people couldn’t get into Man of Steel despite it having the structure of a decent Superman origin:

Personally, and probably controversially, I would suggest making Kara the focus of the first film. The reasoning for this is that I believe she could be a good launching point to provide a Superman the means to really display his personality, and because in the context of wider DC, she is one of the most important characters next to Superman, Batman and Robin if her numerous adaptations and importance in major stories (Crisis on Infinite Earths) is anything to go by.

Make the story one of identity, playing up the themes of the American migrant story that form the basis of Superman. Superman can be a form of second generation migrant given he has known Earth his whole life and fully sees himself as a Kent. At best Clark has curiosity regarding his heritage as a Kryptonian, but it does not overpower his Earth identity. Kara is a first generation migrant/refugee trying to adjust to a new home and carve out an identity for herself. She is Clark’s tether to his heritage and can work as a guide to both him and the audience regarding what Krypton was like. Through Kara, Clark has a choice in how much of his heritage he wants to make parts of his identity.

With Kara around, you can build up the traits of Superman, who in this adaptation should already be a few years in. We can get Clark training her to avoid damages to civilians, fixing her reckless behavior. Given she is his cousin, he’d probably f’ with her just a bit, while also being very protective, giving the audience a family bond they can use as an attachment point to Superman. We can also see Clark’s people skills as Kara is a troubled teen in a world she doesn’t understand that needs the guidance only someone like Superman can give. If Kara is Clark’s outlet for Krypton, then Clark is Kara’s for humanity.

As for villains, would argue Bizarro would be great obstacle for a first movie. Bizarro is a confused clone of Superman where Superman’s kindness and brains are a much better means of defeating him than strength. Bizarro can be trying to figure out his creation and purpose, tying him into the Krypton identity portion of the film as Superman educates him into being a hero. I think Metallo would also be a good villain for this film. He is a man who had his identity stripped to be a weapon for Lex and his, let’s say, anti-immigrant stance when it comes to the aliens. The man is a sadist who embodies the opposite ideals of Clark making him a perfect final boss when Bizarro is obviously shown to be incompetent. Would given Bizarro the final blow on Corben giving him an Iron Giant style “I’m Superman moment” saving the two Kryptonians by suiciding himself. I choose these two villains fit given they fit the theme, introduce Lex, and avoid doing the millionth Zod film.

Other characters like Lois can be incorporated as needed, but I feel the family relationship between Clark and Kara should be the focal point to give this Superman film a little bit of its own identity. Lois and Clark should already be in a relationship and maybe they can give Kara a crush on Jimmy.

Ending should have Kara taking up the new identity of Powergirl to separate herself a bit from her cousin and begin her own narrative.
 
I say fuck the immigrant shit, the best version of Superman is American by birth, do Rebirth, chad dad Superman, Karen Lois and All-American boy Jon.

You ever seen Sky High? Well I think it’s a great idea for reintroducing Superman.
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No other Kryptonians, if they’re not Zod or his crew, they’re a bad idea. Because the crux of my idea for Superman is that, privately, he wants nothing more than for Jon’s powers to kick in, to have someone else who can see it all like he does, even though it risks Jon’s childhood ending prematurely, he’s being selfish. Lois on the other hand, would be fine if Jon didn’t get his dad’s lineage. It’s the kryptonian vs human argument, Clark’s human, no doubt, but he’s lonely on his pedestal and wants to share his world with his son.

Superman is seen as old and outdated? Make it a plot point, that he is getting old and is scared by it, Clark’s mid-life crisis is that he’s not at mid-life, while they’re getting ready for work, Lois says, “Oh no…….. found a grey.” And that freaks Clark out because he’s not finding grey hairs or wrinkles. Make him vulnerable but in a private, manly way, like most dads are and that makes his stubbornness worse because he’s constantly on the watch for Jon’s powers.
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Then do the family road trip arc (except with supervillains) and essentially do the superhero version of National Lampoon’s Vacation. None of this “Superman in a third-world shithole” nonsense. Hell, have Clark do the, “When I was your age, my dad shared a beer with me,” bit because he’s testing to see if it has some affect on Jon, except Lois swoops in and takes the beer.
 
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Superman-as-immigrant is the easiest rhetorical alley oop, and whatever, fine, let them have that.

But if they turn Lex into yet another Trump stand-in, that’s it. The final bullet in the brain. Every reboot manages to find a new way to misunderstand the character. Thankfully, he’s not president in this one, so odds of that are lower than usual.
 
Superman-as-immigrant is the easiest rhetorical alley oop, and whatever, fine, let them have that.
I mean, it is sort of hard to ignore especially when the central conflict between Lex and Superman in the modern era is due to him hating him for being an alien. The Clark is alien, but more human than anyone is such a big part of the character.
I want to include Supergirl in the universe, in which the immigrant thing is a large aspect of her that it needs to be there. She was old enough to actually know her home in comparison to Clark.

As much as I want to avoid woke, I also see the story potential in playing into it as long as the writer doesn’t beat you over the head. Superman stories at least usually portray Clark as being respectful and doing everything to be a member of his new home, seeing himself as more American than his alien roots. Hell, there is even a panel where he directly asks some aliens looking for refuge what they will give back. The man of two worlds is an interesting dynamic and I hate how modern politics have basically poisoned it.

But if they turn Lex into yet another Trump stand-in, that’s it. The final bullet in the brain. Every reboot manages to find a new way to misunderstand the character. Thankfully, he’s not president in this one, so odds of that are lower than usual.
Yeah, this is the biggest problem at this point. Inevitably, there will probably be some crossover if you want to do the more fleshed out Luthor, but you can still portray him as his own character. For me, DCAU is the Lex one should strive for, and while I am sure you can probably make some connections, he is very much his own thing.
 
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I know that Snyder gets clowned for his decision to have Supes kill Zod but to me that made sense: Clark would do it but he would not be happy for it. Honestly, having Pa Kent tell him not to save someone is the one thing that should be mocked the most. It is almost sacrilegious.
Man of Steel had a decent foundation but Snyder fucked it up because he was trying to do Batman Begins without understanding what made that movie work.

A bit more exploration of Kal-El's alien heritage? Excellent except Snyder doesn't really do that, it is surface level at best. We never see Clark being lonely over being the only one of his kind and happy when he finally meets some other Kryptonians only to be torn when it turns out they don't view Earth like he does. Zod and company are just dicks from the get-go and Clark has absolutely no reason to be conflicted about killing Zod because a) he never gets that value instilled in him to begin with and b) he is never shown in the slightest to give two fucks about Krypton and Zod or even given any reason to.

Seeing Superman do cool shit and be proactive in his attempt to save the world? Nope, he is essentially just a robot being herded from one fight to another. He is being told what to do by Jonathan Kent, by Jor-El, by Lois, you never get a sense of what Clark wants, what are HIS motivations (I mean besides Lois)?

Witnessing Clark's childhood and growing up, seeing his past influencing his present through flashbacks? Yeah right, instead we just get a bunch of godawful speeches by Jonathan because once again the script does not understand what made Batman Begins' usage of flashbacks work.

It's what makes Man of Steel so frustrating because the potential is there and the work put in by the VFX and costume/set design teams is spectacular but its all wasted.
Superman-as-immigrant is the easiest rhetorical alley oop, and whatever, fine, let them have that.

But if they turn Lex into yet another Trump stand-in, that’s it. The final bullet in the brain. Every reboot manages to find a new way to misunderstand the character. Thankfully, he’s not president in this one, so odds of that are lower than usual.
Superman as an immigrant is a core part of his character. He is a man of two worlds but fully belonging to neither, he is always going to be at least a little out of place among other aliens like Kryptonians and also a bit out of place on Earth among regular humans. You ignore that, you destroy one of the most compelling parts of the character.
 
The guy who posted this on Twitter actually had the word fake in his username. Why do people want Superman to fail so badly anyway?
We do not want it to fail, we have no faith in him delivering something as hopeful and honest as a Superman movie. He just strikes me as someone who has to cover his story in cynicism and "irony".

As for Luthor i'd honestly make him more of an indian or black sterrotype than a trump stand-in. Supergirl has Lex give this amazing speech about how "i'm supposed to be the Man of Tomorrow, not Superman!" and i'd really enjoy that sort of conflict. Lex is the dirty brown immigrant who thinks he succeeded in life when it was really government handouts and DEI and nepotism that got him to where he was, he'd never be able to succeed if he was a regular white dude from the midwest. Luthor absolutely hates truth, justice, and the american way, in a way only a brown person can.

Clark is the "man of tomorrow" that republicans believe in a midwest kid turned journalist , while Lex is the "man of tomorrow" for democrats, a brown nepo baby with a hatred of police and a love for communism

I don't mind Clark being moody, but when he's superman he should be everything someone can believe in. I actually had a cousin recently talk about how some black guy came up to him on July 4th and thank him because he did something years ago that saved the life of one of his family members and the guy talked about how up until my cousin showed up, the entire family was in complete turmoil but by the time he left they were laughing and joking with him. What the black guy didn't know is that my cousin is probably one of the biggest white supremacists i've ever met, and a big reason for that is because of working in such a ghetto area as a first responder. And thats sort of what i want Clark to be, even he doesn't realize how different he acts when he's superman, but for some reason once he's "in the zone" he's exactly who you want to be there when you need your life saved. The guy with a cheerful demeanor and a helpful attitude who's saving the day and kicking ass.
You have Lex wrong. Lex does not hate America or the world. He looks down upon everyone because of him looking at everyone as chess pieces for him to control. He does not hate the police, he manipulates them to look the other way. He does not like communism. He would use it if he had to but if he was born in a high ranking family but he would dismantle it if he had to toil the fields as a commie peasant. If a system gets in his way, he will destroy it. He does not hate justice, he worked to get himself in high places and that is justice for him. He does not hate truth, he thinks he has it on his side because he is the smartest. He does not hate the American way. In his eyes, he personifies it. He was a nobody who conquered the world with whit, brains and skill. In his own mind, he is the ONLY TRUE AMERICAN!

Man of Steel had a decent foundation but Snyder fucked it up because he was trying to do Batman Begins without understanding what made that movie work.

A bit more exploration of Kal-El's alien heritage? Excellent except Snyder doesn't really do that, it is surface level at best. We never see Clark being lonely over being the only one of his kind and happy when he finally meets some other Kryptonians only to be torn when it turns out they don't view Earth like he does. Zod and company are just dicks from the get-go and Clark has absolutely no reason to be conflicted about killing Zod because a) he never gets that value instilled in him to begin with and b) he is never shown in the slightest to give two fucks about Krypton and Zod or even given any reason to.

Seeing Superman do cool shit and be proactive in his attempt to save the world? Nope, he is essentially just a robot being herded from one fight to another. He is being told what to do by Jonathan Kent, by Jor-El, by Lois, you never get a sense of what Clark wants, what are HIS motivations (I mean besides Lois)?

Witnessing Clark's childhood and growing up, seeing his past influencing his present through flashbacks? Yeah right, instead we just get a bunch of godawful speeches by Jonathan because once again the script does not understand what made Batman Begins' usage of flashbacks work.

It's what makes Man of Steel so frustrating because the potential is there and the work put in by the VFX and costume/set design teams is spectacular but its all wasted.
Exactly, there were a lot of problems. Snyder does not write non combat situations well.
 
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