Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

Who is the best Catholic apologist alive today?

  • Bishop Robert Barron

    Votes: 42 47.7%
  • Fr. Mike Schmitz

    Votes: 39 44.3%
  • Trent Horn

    Votes: 23 26.1%
  • Jimmy Akin

    Votes: 14 15.9%
  • Joe Heschmeyer

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Matt Fradd

    Votes: 6 6.8%
  • Scott Hahn

    Votes: 13 14.8%
  • Brayden Cook - TheCatechumen

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Taylor Marshall

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Christian Fagner

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • James White

    Votes: 7 8.0%

  • Total voters
    88
Well normally with "Folk Catholicism" I try to be charitable and look at the positives.

However santa muerte has been formally condemned by the Catholic Church so I will follow suit.

As for why it looks so creepy, it's a personification of death.
You would think an obvious demon like it would try to be more subtle and human in appearance like much of its unholy brethren. Same goes for the rest of the South American pantheons, who all just look extremely demonic and unholy.
 
You would think an obvious demon like it would try to be more subtle and human in appearance like much of its unholy brethren. Same goes for the rest of the South American pantheons, who all just look extremely demonic and unholy.
Part of that is the aesthetic borrowed from the dia de los muertos celebrations common in that part of the world.

There's nothing inherently demonic about skulls and bones, the Catholic Church has a rich history of skeletal relics.
 
Part of that is the aesthetic borrowed from the dia de los muertos celebrations common in that part of the world.

There's nothing inherently demonic about skulls and bones, the Catholic Church has a rich history of skeletal relics.
I know about Memento Mori, I just wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes with the Cartels, Santa Muerte, and Neo-Paganism as a whole over in Mexico.
 
I know about Memento Mori, I just wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes with the Cartels, Santa Muerte, and Neo-Paganism as a whole over in Mexico.
A whole lot of them legit believe in satanic/pagan rituals around human sacrifice and cannibalism. You have literal cult leaders like Adolfo Constanzo ritually murdering and eating people in satanic rituals, and who knows what else that goes on.
 
A whole lot of them legit believe in satanic/pagan rituals around human sacrifice and cannibalism. You have literal cult leaders like Adolfo Constanzo ritually murdering and eating people in satanic rituals, and who knows what else that goes on.
I did hear that the Santa Muerte shit might have been a secret holdover of the old barbaric Aztec Paganism shit, but I don't know if that's a fact.
 
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The little old Chinese lady that says a rosary every day after mass for world peace and then goes home to prepare food for her grandchildren will probably see the beatific vision then most online Christian debators
"I disliked very much their hymns, which I considered to be fifth-rate poems set to sixth-rate music. But as I went on I saw the great merit of it. I came up against different people of quite different outlooks and different education, and then gradually my conceit just began peeling off. I realized that the hymns (which were just sixth-rate music) were, nevertheless, being sung with devotion and benefit by an old saint in elastic-side boots in the opposite pew, and then you realize that you aren’t fit to clean those boots."

-C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology and Ethics

@Local Farmer @Preacher ✝ What's your guys opinions on the whole Santa Muerte shit? I just want to know why the fuck it looks so creepy with the skull face and shit.
The most charitable argument for Santa Muerte I ever heard was that she was the Angel of Death that God would send, like in Exodus, and the argument (presumably) would be that she is therefore at least worthy of the same respect as the other angels, like Michael, Gabriel and Raphael.

The other thing I remember hearing is the idea that even if all the saints were to turn their back on the person, Santa Muerte won't, because even the shittiest person will still one day die.

Maybe if it wasn't so wrapped up in the cartel, it probably could be viewed as some weird Memento Mori to an absurd extreme, however as it stands, it just seems like something that some people in a bad place came up with to add a flair of spirituality to their evil dealings. Especially, with the idea that she never abandons someone, it becomes a mess because in a certain sense it would mean that the person was holding her to be more loving than Christ, and if that weren't enough of an issue, I think it could very easily have an effect of preventing someone from realizing that they've hit their spiritual and moral rock bottom.

There's nothing inherently demonic about skulls and bones, the Catholic Church has a rich history of skeletal relics.
"In all you do, remember the end of your life,
and then you will never sin."
-Sirach 7:36

"It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of everyone; the living should take this to heart."
-Ecclesiastes 7:2

bone-chapels-v0-tym7qzwcz47d1 - Copy.webp
 
A whole lot of them legit believe in satanic/pagan rituals around human sacrifice and cannibalism. You have literal cult leaders like Adolfo Constanzo ritually murdering and eating people in satanic rituals, and who knows what else that goes on.
Extreme Catholicism devotion to mary+indios extreme morbid devotion to death+mestizo mommy issues as they view women as the reason aztecs fell (malinche)=Weird pagan celebration of death as their perfect and only mommy.
Catholics should not have used the pre-existing mary of Guadalupe as a substitute for an indio death mountain goddess.
Fun fact Tanathos (some greek death god) is the actal name of the death horsemen, the destroyer.
Sheol is hades the devourer whom follows death.
Hell is anoter name for some ishtarlike idol.
 
@Local Farmer @Preacher ✝ What's your guys opinions on the whole Santa Muerte shit? I just want to know why the fuck it looks so creepy with the skull face and shit.
For some fucking Reason the Mexicans of all people never really let go of their Aztec roots, they tend to have a litany of fake saints and customs that have no real connections to Catholic roots. If it was just a momento mori kind of thing then I guess it’s fine but they actually pray to it and treat it like a pseudo-deity.

they are kind like how the Church has never formerly tamed the Gypsy’s either, where gypsy’s have a saint that’s literally Shiva. The church explicitly condemns this kind of behavior but it’s always weird to see it pop up in the modern day
 
For some fucking Reason the Mexicans of all people never really let go of their Aztec roots, they tend to have a litany of fake saints and customs that have no real connections to Catholic roots. If it was just a momento mori kind of thing then I guess it’s fine but they actually pray to it and treat it like a pseudo-deity.

they are kind like how the Church has never formerly tamed the Gypsy’s either, where gypsy’s have a saint that’s literally Shiva. The church explicitly condemns this kind of behavior but it’s always weird to see it pop up in the modern day
I just wonder why the fuck their Aztec """gods""" look so fucking creepy and outwordly demonic.
 
I just wonder why the fuck their Aztec """gods""" look so fucking creepy and outwordly demonic.
Mainly because I believe they are, I really don’t understand as to why the Aztecs in particular were so bad compared to European or Dharmic Paganism.

This is the gypsy “”saint“” I was thinking about
 
Mainly because I believe they are, I really don’t understand as to why the Aztecs in particular were so bad compared to European or Dharmic Paganism.

This is the gypsy “”saint“” I was thinking about
Why are the Gypsies and Spics so stupid into believing this shit. If it looks so obviously demonic and otherworldly, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU BELIEVE IT??? Its not even TRYING to fool you retards.
 
Why are the Gypsies and Spics so stupid into believing this shit. If it looks so obviously demonic and otherworldly, WHY THE FUCK DO YOU BELIEVE IT??? Its not even TRYING to fool you retards.
I have no idea why Mexicans range from being the most saintly devout people on God’s green earth to borderline pagans, it seems to be a particular problem in the Mexican Church, I don’t really hear about this shit coming out of Brazil
 
I have no idea why Mexicans range from being the most saintly devout people on God’s green earth to borderline pagans, it seems to be a particular problem in the Mexican Church, I don’t really hear about this shit coming out of Brazil
They are probably the heart of the Cartels, who as @GeekUSA notes, are into actual satanic/paganistic cannabal ritualism. The cartels in turn, basically own the government, which is also not so coincidentally being run officially by a female jew, who are a subversive sort regardless. Combine this and the existing Pagan holdovers from the days of the Aztec Empire, and you have a VERY deep rabbit whole.
 
Mainly because I believe they are, I really don’t understand as to why the Aztecs in particular were so bad compared to European or Dharmic Paganism.

This is the gypsy “”saint“” I was thinking about
The history of the Aztec people in particular really frames their mythology as demonic. They were semi peaceful nomads living in the area that is now northern mexico/southern texas, until their patron god tells them to go pillaging, raping, and sacrificing until they reach what is tenotichtlan. The founding of their city is literally caused by them skinning alive a neighboring city's princess and the Aztecs high priest wearing her skin as a symbolic "marriage" to Huiztlilapochle. The Spaniards were completely justified in what they did to the Aztecs.
 
The history of the Aztec people in particular really frames their mythology as demonic. They were semi peaceful nomads living in the area that is now northern mexico/southern texas, until their patron god tells them to go pillaging, raping, and sacrificing until they reach what is tenotichtlan. The founding of their city is literally caused by them skinning alive a neighboring city's princess and the Aztecs high priest wearing her skin as a symbolic "marriage" to Huiztlilapochle. The Spaniards were completely justified in what they did to the Aztecs.
One of the funniest things learning about was how a Good portion of Cortez’s army was actually other Natives who fucking hated the Aztecs and would do anything to get rid of them.

Also I can’t remember a book but theirs a memoir written by one of the conquestadors about what they saw and Mexico and it’s one of the first accounts we have of PTSD
 
The history of the Aztec people in particular really frames their mythology as demonic. They were semi peaceful nomads living in the area that is now northern mexico/southern texas, until their patron god tells them to go pillaging, raping, and sacrificing until they reach what is tenotichtlan. The founding of their city is literally caused by them skinning alive a neighboring city's princess and the Aztecs high priest wearing her skin as a symbolic "marriage" to Huiztlilapochle. The Spaniards were completely justified in what they did to the Aztecs.
Genuine dumbest pagans in existence to believe a scary green dragon when it tells them to do shit.
 
One of the funniest things learning about was how a Good portion of Cortez’s army was actually other Natives who fucking hated the Aztecs and would do anything to get rid of them.

Also I can’t remember a book but theirs a memoir written by one of the conquestadors about what they saw and Mexico and it’s one of the first accounts we have of PTSD
In addition, some of the Aztec's atrocities were so bad, that the Europeans thought that Cortez was lying.
 
In addition, some of the Aztec's atrocities were so bad, that the Europeans thought that Cortez was lying.
I think this is the Memoir I was talking about, it’s by Bernal Diaz, who most certainly was not a fan of Cortez but does write about how he still wakes up in cold sweats and panic attacks
 
I cannot speak from personal experience, but I have seen long distance relationships work, but only if the couple has already met either before or during the relationship. My advice would be to continue to pray to God for a sign and also to reflect on if you can see yourself together long term.
Thank you for this! I ended up confessing to my crush. I don't think he's interested - he didn't say anything except that he wasn't surprised, so I'm taking it as a no. He is still down to remain friends though which is awesome! I would hate to lose him as a friend. Funnily enough, we both thought about dating a couple years ago, but didn't think we were compatible at the time. The more I talk with him, the more I think we are, but considering he said he had a gut feeling that things wouldn't work out a couple years ago, it probably won't work out. Nevertheless, I've been praying about it more and I'm at peace that God has someone planned for me, whether it's my friend or not.
Is act of Apostasy in catholic church a somewhat new thing? I know it exists for at least 30 years, but longer than that I do not know.
I officialy (at least according to my country) quit my confession and am without one (tax reasons). I am not believing either, so in my situation, why should I go to extreme lengths and officially get a stamp from the church I do not follow? Its not required by the state, and I am fine without it. I just dont see how it would work. I feel a little as if its the same situation as councilors in army boot camps. Trying to get you to change your opinion and try again, weasel you in.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but hasn't apostasy always been a thing in the Catholic Church? Weren't people who were around during the Early Church like Tertullian and Arius apostates? Or am I confusing apostasy and anathema?
I have no idea why Mexicans range from being the most saintly devout people on God’s green earth to borderline pagans, it seems to be a particular problem in the Mexican Church, I don’t really hear about this shit coming out of Brazil
I just learned that the first sedevacantists were part of a radical traditionalist Mexican group, so I agree with you, literally what is going on with the Mexican Church.
 
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