DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[AnsemSoD1]

The heckin' doggo scene was cut from the movie. Can't have villains committing fictional violence towards CGI animals, don'tchaknow.

You wouldn't be saying that if it was our dear feeder getting kicked, now would you?

 

[el bandito loco]

The 70s humour really works in the 78 film’s favor, it actually feels like Silver Age Supes is running around in our real-life 1978 and his mere presence is dialing up the wacky by a degree.

This is how I always describe why that movie works, it's Superman, dropped directly into real New York in 1978, the reason the humor works is it's entirely organic. this is why Superman 3 is not funny, and why GunnMan is going to be terrible. The movie doesnt stop for jokes, and although its sort of poking fun at Superman, it's not stopping the movie to go look how dumb this is, and make a snarky comment. It's characters reacting how they would not in a self aware way, and Clark just being Clark. This movie is going to be another capeshit movie stuffed with comic book shit for faggots to point and cheer at, while it stops the movie and goes lol this shit is retarded. it's talking down to the audience. I know it's fucking retarded. You don't have to add jokes and shit. I've said this before, but batman begins and Dark Knight are both pretty fucking funny in sections, because of organic character shit. Superman 78 is funny, organic character shit. Age of Ultron, is not funny. It stops to be self aware and laugh at the comic book shit it's doing.

her come be his live in girlfriend because she's as evil as he is

I remembered something I forgot. There is this completely asinine explanation for their relationship that is the same thing in Dark Knight Rises. So this lady used to work at a school, and Lex saw her at a fundraiser and they looked at each other and she knew, instinctively he was a criminal. Because she's one. She saw him and went yup, hes not actually the most for the people politician ever, I saw his face and he's a mob boss. Just like Robin looked at Bruce Wayne and said yup, I saw his eyes. He has to be Batman. Totally insane.

The heckin' doggo scene was cut from the movie. Can't have villains committing fictional violence towards CGI animals, don'tchaknow.

This type of shit makes me so irrationally angry. It's not fucking real. It's so gay to adjust your movie about magic space people to appeal to someone possibly being like oh no a guy kicked a super dog. fuck, ive been begging (lol) for krypto in a movie since I was like 4 years old but honestly, id be pissed if they had Superman take him out back and Ol' Yeller his ass with a Kryptonite bullet, but I'd be more pissed if they cut it to avoid hurting someone's feelings. At least that would still make sense to cut for a kid, but if your kid can't see an animal cartoon character get beat up in a movie where you know he's not going to possibly die in it, you need to stop coddling your kid.

 

[Incecticyder]

David Goyer and Christopher Nolan wrote Man of Steel. Snyder didn't write that one. I do remember around the time it came out, or maybe around the DVD release Snyder said somewhere his first cut of MoS was 3+ hours long.

I've always suspected it probably didn't have flashbacks and was more of a linear structure and they probably cut a bunch of other krypton and smallville shit. I'd assume that was probably a studio decision because Superman Returns biggest complaint was that it was boring and not enough violence and action.

Not that any of that stuff probably would have been necessarily any good but if I had to wager what the missing hour of footage was, I'd assume its that and they kept basically all the action they shot and kept bits of the first two acts but rearranged them into flashbacks instead of maybe going through Clark's life linear.

Snyder COULD have written a good Superman movie with some supervision. His biggest problem is that he is not optimistic enough to write a Superman story. A story about Superman should be uplifting, his belief in humanity unshakable, his parents should be those unrealistically goody-two-shoes that can take a god and make him human like us through good morals and life lessons.

Snyder fucked it up by choosing realism on a fantasy movie. Realism is supposed to ground a work not cripple it.

 

[el bandito loco]

Snyder COULD have written a good Superman movie with some supervision. His biggest problem is that he is not optimistic enough to write a Superman story. A story about Superman should be uplifting, his belief in humanity unshakable, his parents should be those unrealistically goody-two-shoes that can take a god and make him human like us through good morals and life lessons.

Snyder fucked it up by choosing realism on a fantasy movie. Realism is supposed to ground a work not cripple it.

His problem is he couldn't do it in a single movie. He needed like 5 or whatever. You remove the Batcuck shit and his JL sequels rule. post apocalyptic ruled by Superman a la Injustice but way of Mad Max, with a Superman who didn't go bad for any reason he could possibly control, but Anti Life which was only able to effect him because the moment it hit him is when he discovered his pregnant wife dead. Batman and the Suicide Squad leading a suicide mission to go back and save him for JLA 2, and then 3 is the preventing of that, Superman being the guy people wanted Cavill to be like from the beginning by them sidestepping that future, and wraps up with Superman leading the entire world's militaries (including the Atlanteans and Amazons) along with the Green Lantern Corps to destroy the devil and create world peace Miracle Monday style.

Unironically JLA 2 and 3 would have been the greatest superhero movies ever made, the problem is we had to sit through the other shit to get there, and nobody liked them so we didn't get to the good shit. Even the stupid little shit. The opening being Batman hunting riddler only for him to tell him he just solved the Ultimate Riddle and it's the anti life equation and him just blowing his brains out right in front of Batman is fucking perfect. and the batcuck shit wouldn't have been there because they vetoed that shit after the initial story planning shit, and thats really the only thing that sucked about it. (But sucked enough it would have flat out ruined the whole series)

I think the biggest problem was that when they made the second one, Superman wasn't more hopeful himself. They broke him down entirely in BvS. which, I dont hate that Clark. I'd be like that too everyone treats him like shit. BUT if that movie had him not let that shit get to him as much and been depressed, and they wouldn't have done Death of Superman in it, it would have went a long way.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

People seem to be very much "over" the shared cinematic universe thing. If you're going to start a cinematic universe for a dying movie genre, this movie (from everything I have heard) ain't it, dawg. Who in the fuck wants to see an MCU-style Superman? I sure as hell don't.

People would probably be more into a DC shared universe if anything Gunn has cooking made a lick of sense. His entire universe reads like a dart board of random D-listers that he clearly wants to use because no one cares about them so he can reform them into his edgy man-child capeshit formula.

A DC Universe is difficult in many areas, but I think at the very least we can all agree that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern should be getting solo trilogies that lead into a wider Justice League trilogy/quadrilogy. The fact that Gunn has no plans for Flash, is relegating Green Lantern to a low budget tv series, and seemingly has little ideas for Wonder Woman or even a Batman spells disaster.

These five should be the base that gets completed before anything else. If you want to add more, build up a classic Titans lineup as TT will obviously be the biggest moneymaker, which probably includes giving Aquaman and Green Arrow their own film trilogies. Expanding beyond that Zatanna (and the JL Dark), probably Supergirl/Powergirl, and maybe JL International as a means to include the fun D-list shitters would be the expansion.

Instead of this, we are getting Clayface and shit like the Authority. Ohh...and of course more Suicide Squad, because who doesn't love the Suicide Squad.

This type of shit makes me so irrationally angry. It's not fucking real. It's so gay to adjust your movie about magic space people to appeal to someone possibly being like oh no a guy kicked a super dog. fuck, ive been begging (lol) for krypto in a movie since I was like 4 years old but honestly, id be pissed if they had Superman take him out back and Ol' Yeller his ass with a Kryptonite bullet, but I'd be more pissed if they cut it to avoid hurting someone's feelings. At least that would still make sense to cut for a kid, but if your kid can't see an animal cartoon character get beat up in a movie where you know he's not going to possibly die in it, you need to stop coddling your kid.

It isn't for kids, its for women. They really need women to like this universe and the quickest way to set them off is to have someone punt the doggo on screen.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

David Goyer and Christopher Nolan wrote Man of Steel. Snyder didn't write that one. I do remember around the time it came out, or maybe around the DVD release Snyder said somewhere his first cut of MoS was 3+ hours long.

I've always suspected it probably didn't have flashbacks and was more of a linear structure and they probably cut a bunch of other krypton and smallville shit. I'd assume that was probably a studio decision because Superman Returns biggest complaint was that it was boring and not enough violence and action.

Yeah apparently the original cut was around 3 hours and 10 minutes: https://x.com/boomborks/status/1062655199204958208

Nolan and Goyer wanted more time to rewrite it even further but Snyder just said he'd shoot it as is which made WB execs happy so they gave him the go-ahead.

On the other hand a lot of the deleted scenes are supposedly pointless shit like Kelex transforming into some kind of mecha and fighting General Zod and his goons to give Jor-El time to launch Kal's baby ship (also Zod apparently had mutated war dogs as pets on Krypton) and another "comedic" scene where the Kents take baby Clark to a doctor to perform an ear exam and because his hearing is so sensitive the tests they perform hurt him and cause him to scream so loud that he blows out all the windows in the hospital.

 

[That Chris Guy]

For transparency's sake, I'm not the biggest fan of James Gunn. I've said before that I thought GotG was overrated shit, but I liked Brightburn and The Suicide Squad enough for what they were. Gunn has shown that he's good at having multiple characters in a film with them all getting a passing grade by the end, and he works best in films where he's allowed to be unabashedly violent.

That being said, I feel like his strengths are antithetical to a Superman film. I don't think this will be good because being overstuffed with like, 5 villains and 5 heroes is too much for a first film that should be focusing all its efforts on the characterisation of Superman. Remember the days when we chided Spider-man 3 for having 2 villains in one movie? I'd cut at least half of these characters out if not more, spend more time on Kal and Lex and their conflict, as well as Lois and Clark. Stuff all these villains into a sequel where Brainiac is fucking with everything behind the scenes and setting up the fights.

I didn't hate Man of Steel as much as others did, but I feel like this film is going to fail on the opposite end of the scale - too bright and heady optimism for the content, lacking gravitas when needed. It may be bias on my part, but the first Superman film (and the second) remain the best. Christopher Reeves nailed the character right away and in spite of the now-nonsensical plot resolution, you really got a sense that he was devastated at losing Lois in the moment. I don't expect this film to deliver anything near that level of competence, especially with Gunn trying to chase political trends and shoehorn the movie into that framework. What movie does he think he made? Barbie?

 

[el bandito loco]

I actually will say, I've always disagreed we need that many movies or movies for every character. I actually think structure wise, what Snyder wanted (not what happened) was actually really cool. where instead of multiple franchises it was one big story. and each installment is the next part. It's what I would probably want to do myself if I controlled that kind of thing, but it would take insane planning and no studio would actually allow it (they didn't)

where you had Man of Steel as the beginning, the next movie was death of superman, suicide squad was the world without superman, Wonder Woman was her backstory setting up the gods and all that shit so when they fight Darkseid in JLA 3 youre not like who the fuck? Aquaman was the epilogue to JLA, etc. And each character's movie not just being a standalone adding to the universe with small set up but the direct progression of the larger story and at the end of the day theres 12 or whatever movies telling one story, ending with it's own reboot to allow anyone else to come in and do whatever they want or franchise out from there.

That's the type of thing I always wanted to see done that people act like the MCU was doing but they never did at all. It also makes no financial sense to do that. It would require way too much work and planning and you couldn't have any reactionary changes.

I'd rather get something like that, over another shared universe of neverending shit. I like the idea they take like 30 characters and have a full beginning middle and end. You dont need trilogies or introductionary movies for anyone. that's such a weak complaint. They just have to be fleshed out in wherever we get them.

Im not opposed to getting a bunch of franchises or whatever, im just saying there's absolutely no reason I needed a flash or aquaman movie before justice league introduced them. they just need to be covered in it. I didn't need a cartoon of Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl before the JLA show even though Batman and Superman got one, etc.

I totally get the want of various franchises for each character, but its retarded for that to be necessary before a JLA movie. the dirty dozen didn't need 12 movies showing who they were before the war, beast boy didn't need a tv special before the teen titans pilot.

 

[The Nothingness]

Kid friendly when Lex beats the shit out of Krypto. Hm.....

The heckin' doggo scene was cut from the movie. Can't have villains committing fictional violence towards CGI animals, don'tchaknow.

But does it still have Lex being defeated by catfishing?

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I actually will say, I've always disagreed we need that many movies or movies for every character. I actually think structure wise, what Snyder wanted (not what happened) was actually really cool. where instead of multiple franchises it was one big story. and each installment is the next part. It's what I would probably want to do myself if I controlled that kind of thing, but it would take insane planning and no studio would actually allow it (they didn't)

It is a give and take, while Snyder had more connectivity, his world also felt small and like they hardly utilized any of the strengths of DC. Arguably, DC should have been the one to do solo films rather than Marvel as each of their big hitters has their own pocket within the wider universe with their own cast, locations and lore. Marvel characters are meant to be together, DC are way more individualistic and thus it always feels like they are missing cool things by just lumping them all in to the Batman/Superman narrative.

In an ideal world, you get a bit of both. There should be stages where each individual film adds to a broader theme and/or endpoint with the JL films. Set up the universe in three stages with a first phase build up where each film contributes a member of the JL and Legion of Doom for one big smack down. The second phase can be the fall - I personally like the idea of a Cadmus or New Frontier where the government gets weary of the Supers and each Super starts dealing with more repercussions for being vigilantes and inadvertently getting involved with politics. Final stage is the buildup to Darkseid as the more cosmic/magical side of DC goes full force, follow up from the last phase as now the JL are more accepted then ever, maybe to the point where their respective cities finally come together to take on the larger threats.

I totally get the want of various franchises for each character, but its retarded for that to be necessary before a JLA movie. the dirty dozen didn't need 12 movies showing who they were before the war, beast boy didn't need a tv special before the teen titans pilot.

It was a great chance for DC to hop off of Bats and Supes' dicks, which is why some (including me) see it as a disappointment. We may not need a Flash movie, but at the same time, Flash has a fleshed out world and villains up there with Bats and Supes, feels wasteful to have him but never have the Rogues, Gorilla Grodd or Reverse Flash. GL never even gets anything in the Snyderverse, which is incredibly sad given all the potential of giant alien worlds and the different lantern cores.

There is very much a difference between a Beast Boy, who is a side character in a bigger brand, and one of the main leaguers.

 

[Overly Serious]

Superman Returns biggest complaint was that it was boring and not enough violence and action.

The worst thing about that movie is that Superman is a horrible person in it. He is woefully lacking in morality, respect or compassion. Throughout.

This is how I always describe why that movie works, it's Superman, dropped directly into real New York in 1978, the reason the humor works is it's entirely organic

When that dude tells Superman he has a wild outfit or whatever the phrasing, that's funny and completely organic. It's also done without the director and writer winking at the camera saying: "aren't comic books silly? It's okay to like my movie because you're being ironic not childish".

ded. it's talking down to the audience. I know it's fucking retarded. You don't have to add jokes and shit. I've said this before, but batman begins and Dark Knight are both pretty fucking funny in sections, because of organic character shit.

Another organic line - Batman telling the vigilantes "I don't need help" and Crane in the background snarking "not my diagnosis."

Whereas the funniest line in Dark Knight Rises was when my mate leaned over in the finale and whispered "somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb".

As to Snyder? I like him. Watch his version of the Justice League movie compared with Whedon's. Immeasurably superior. Man of Steel should have had lighter moments and the pallete is too grim, but at least one of those problems I put mainly on the writers.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

Zatanna is quickly becoming another one of my waifus, cute raven like Robin and Hinata.

 

[el bandito loco]

There is very much a difference between a Beast Boy, who is a side character in a bigger brand, and one of the main leaguers.

In a perfect world, if they were smart what they'd do is what Justice League has done since the 1960s, and be in universe but entirely independent of anything going on the other books besides basic shit like whos under the masks or what costumes they're wearing, and be entirely watchable with 0 context other than the prior justice league movie.

I was talking about what Snyder wanted to do (but the studio didn't allow to happen at all after BvS) but I got into the weeds, my real point has nothing to do with each installment being a chapter in one story, and more so that setting up justice league movies and stuff is a waste of time and the worst thing they could possibly be doing.

Do your flash movies, your batmans, whatever. and then have your JL movies just happen somewhere in there regardless of if you've seen them or not. you could do justice league whenever. Don't do little plot threads to pick up in the JLA, keep that shit in the other movies, unless its from the last JLA thing. Just dont contradict whatever happened in Green Lantern 3 or Super Sons or whatever other shit is coming out.

Outside of major crossovers that typically are their own mini series, every justice league story worth a fuck since the beginning was entirely told in justice league and had absolutely nothing to do with that months superman or wonder woman. usually, it doesnt even make sense when the fuck they could have happened. and frankly if they want to have an actual alternative to Marvel, that's how you do it. Give enough from everyone so a guy who only watches the flash movies can follow along, but dont make any of it dependant on one another.

Marvel has made everyone doing franchises forget how crossovers and stuff should work. where they're for fans of each individual component and make sense to them regardless of how many other ones they know dick about. And setting shit up in other stuff is a big waste of time and a fuck you to your audience stringing them along because youre incapable of just telling a single story. if youre going to do a big story, do a big JL story, and then keep everything beyond name drops and companies or city names out of the solo stuff. stories have functioned without deep dicking every character and still understanding who they are for all of time, im not sure why now a days we think we have to do that and everything requires set up.

 

[The Token Ethnic]

But does it still have Lex being defeated by catfishing?

Apparently the Monkey social media scene is still in there.

 

[That Chris Guy]

Im not opposed to getting a bunch of franchises or whatever, im just saying there's absolutely no reason I needed a flash or aquaman movie before justice league introduced them. they just need to be covered in it. I didn't need a cartoon of Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl before the JLA show even though Batman and Superman got one, etc.

I think Black Panther is an example of an introductory movie not being needed, where his appearance in Civil War was enough on its own to establish the character. I haven't watched the standalone movie to its full completion yet, but from what I saw it was complete trite. Where previously I was interested in T'Challa, I found myself giving much less of a shit about him after I was shown his obnoxious family and the ridiculous culture he lives in.

Marvel feeling the need to make a standalone movie for every character is part of what brought the franchise to its knees, being stretched to breaking point by devoting too much of its time to characters that equate to nothing. By contrast, DC's movies didn't last long enough to reach that point, and all the sequels died after it was established the universe was being rebooted.

 

[el bandito loco]

The worst thing about that movie is that Superman is a horrible person in it. He is woefully lacking in morality, respect or compassion. Throughout.

Yeah, this has always been my problem with it too. that and the fact it hates him, remove superman from the equation and every character has positive growth and development. But he's a weird freak in the movie. he follows Lois around like a sad dog after he really did just fuck off and leave her pregnant ass with no goodbye, and then the whole movie is sad people have moved on. bro you left for years. the hell is wrong with you?

and then, in the end after he spent the whole movie trying to basically tease lois into cheating on or leaving her husband in a way he had plausible denability, finds out her kid is his, and his last words to her? "I'll see you around" what a fuckin prick. Directly before that he recites to the sleeping kid the same shit his dad said to him as he was rocketed away from him forever, but at least Jor had the decency to die before abandoning fatherhood. He even kept parenting after death! Superman's just a deadbeat. He came by once and then told the mom, later bitch.

It's hard not to read that scene as him saying goodbye forever to the kid before he ever has a chance to know him. It's even funnier because the sequel, was no shit, going to be about Braniac coming and taking over the kid and Superman was going to have to kill his son to save the Earth. what the fuck kind of plot is that? People complain about Man of Steel having him kill Zod, imagine if we got him murdering his elementary school age illegitimate son. Probably the only good decision related to the film franchise WB has had since 1980 was to cancel that.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I think Black Panther is an example of an introductory movie not being needed, where his appearance in Civil War was enough on its own to establish the character. I haven't watched the standalone movie to its full completion yet, but from what I saw it was complete trite. Where previously I was interested in T'Challa, I found myself giving much less of a shit about him after I was shown his obnoxious family and the ridiculous culture he lives in.

Marvel feeling the need to make a standalone movie for every character is part of what brought the franchise to its knees, being stretched to breaking point by devoting too much of its time to characters that equate to nothing. By contrast, DC's movies didn't last long enough to reach that point, and all the sequels died after it was established the universe was being rebooted.

What killed Marvel was just poor writing. Nothing in the universe mattered beyond the vague build up of Infinity Stones. The nothing feel extended to all corners, films that should have been world changing end up as nothingburgers - case in point Civil War which set up a huge split, only to resolve it in a half-assed manner within the same film. As individual trilogies, Marvel was stretching with so many of its heroes. I am not a massive Marvel fan, but you could tell they lacked content to go more than 1-2 solo films with their characters, they simply weren't built for it.

The other main critique was the lack of unique identity between films. Iron Man, Ant Man and Doctor strange all have the same basic set up and characterization, everyone needs to be the snarky funny guy. There is no change to tone between films, nor any kind of genre shakeup beyond maybe Guardians and its 80s space thing.

DC is unique in that their heavy hitters all have content to go through multiple films and take on a variety of genres. While you don't need to have individual films for every character, it does feel like missed potential not to. I can easily crank out a general outline for a trilogy for any of the main 5 and more, they have the characters and rogues to do it.

 

[Incecticyder]

His problem is he couldn't do it in a single movie.

HE couldn't do it but it could be done. It really does not take a lot to establish such.

 

[el bandito loco]

HE couldn't do it but it could be done. It really does not take a lot to establish such.

well yeah, someone could make one good Superman movie. I was just saying we would have gotten it from him eventually, but the fact was he specifically planned for the classic Superman people expected, to show up in the 5th one. which is absolutely retarded but hilarious. it wasn't a case of he couldn't, but he wasn't going to.

I don't even think he's not optimistic enough, I just think he's too long winded and obsessed with the idea of Epics. He didn't want to make a Superman movie, he wanted to make the 15 hour long Superman epic movie told in 5 parts costarring the justice league and the end of the world where we get hopeful superman for the last 3 hours of it after he's been beaten down and died and risen first.

I think as just a studio director with a good script and without huge say in control of it, he was and still is a good fit. they fucked up when they just let him do what he wanted and then told him to kick rocks, when they got the first half of that.

 

[The Nothingness]

Wait what? Who would make these accusations and why? Even in War for Cybertron, Optimus killed for necessity.

The "Optimus is a war criminal" narrative comes from the Bayformers version executing defeated enemies with no remorse like Sentinel Prime at the end of DOTM.

To stay on the thread topic, it's like people complaining about Superman killing Zod in MOS but not in the second Christopher Reeves film.