Subnautica - Undah Dah Sea (you die)

[Time of Space]

No matter where one stands on this whole debacle one thing should be easily agreed upon by everyone:

Fewer people that worked on Below Zero working on Subnautica 2 can only be good for the game.
Now it has a very slight chance of being made by people who understand what made the first game good. Not a great chance but better than none.

 

[ZipDisk]

I just realized why Dirtnaut is impossible. You'd be building construction equipment and oil towers to fuel the contstruction equipment. And that wouldn't be allowed now.

 

[Hermiöne Granger]

Fewer people that worked on Below Zero working on Subnautica 2 can only be good for the game.
Now it has a very slight chance of being made by people who understand what made the first game good. Not a great chance but better than none.

Now if Subnautica2 get released and suddenly all the characters are white, while all the women are sexy stellar blade asian babes. Then you know it will be good.

 

[Shartavius]

To echo many of the previously expressed sentiments: I was a fan of the original Subnautica, and observed Below Zero's botched development and execution directly resulting from Unknown Worlds deciding they cared more about pandering to the reddit troon religion than making a worthy sequel/DLC to something non-reddit troons enjoyed. Once I saw the continued I NIGGUR emphasis teased in 2, I lost all interest in playing more than modded versions of the original. I'm guilty of hoping there will someday be a mod that makes Below Zero's story and progression less shit.

 

[Drama keen]

I have only played Subnautica 1, I haven't managed to get Below Zero, yet.

Wasn't the first game just crutching forward? They had tons of issues in the development process, I believe it was another of the early access trash. Literally the only thing the game ever had has been its unique theme.
I remember reading they wanted randomly generated worlds, but they concluded to the static map. Was that really a design choice or a technical limitation, i.e. they couldn't get things to work? When the game released I think it had mid performance at best, and it had stuff missing. Hell, the game still has an "unstuck" option in the pause menu. There are mods to unload Aurora, because, apparently, the shipwreck is always loaded, regardless of where you are on the map (PirateSoftware approves?). Still if you spin the camera around you will get a nice spike on your fans.
Nothing I have seen or vaguely remember has shown that this was a team of extreme competency. They are good, but that is all. Many quality of life things were added after the release.
And then Below Zero. The DLC that became standalone... The main complaint I remember is the size. And maybe some retconing, yeah. But I do not have any real opinion for that, not having played it yet.
To their credit, when Steam Deck came out they rushed to make the game verified. That is the latest update of Subnautica 1 on Steam.

So, how would Subnautica 2 be any better? If people didn't love the rather unique theme of the game, Subnautica 1 would have probably never been finished. And they were just lucky to be competent, in contrast to many other games.
From the "gameplay teaser" it feel like they got all the good components of the (first?) game and improved them, made them... cooler. Maybe even better. But separately. They might or might not make a good result when put together.

 

[Shartavius]

Wasn't the first game just crutching forward?

Unknown Worlds continued implementing QOL improvements into the game until Dec 2022 (the "Living Large" 2.0 update) based on player feedback. Whether they did so purely in good faith or not, their Early Access development model of using the game's end-consumers as testers leading up to Full Release state over the course of years did (in my meager opinion, of course) result in a solid product by time I was willing to purchase it.

Below Zero was the result of UW abandoning their own refinement process and forsaking their own standards, simply because they desperately needed the injection of cash from releasing a DLC as a full price, standalone, download-only title to stay afloat during the pandemic. That they did so knowing the product was an undercooked turd (their protagonist even resembles one), and tried to foster good will by saying "Hey...it's been a rough road - But we'll make it up to you all with Subnautica 2" (instead of continuing to patch content into BZ) was enough to get me to swear off ever giving them another cent. I can't get hyped for another brown-washed, "inclusive" sequel when they still owe me the Below Zero I paid for.

 

[OutInTheRain]

Subnautica was lightning in a bottle. A cozy exploration/building game that occasionally terrified you with a leviathan. BZ was by all accounts trash. Subnautica at it's core is a mystery game. That is what drove you forward. Finding the ruins, exploring, building new things was what kept you interested. How would you go forward with a sequel? What would you do to expand upon the gameplay? These are the questions they should have asked before launching into a sequel.

From what it sounds like the company has always been dysfunctional and now there is an overlord to punish said dysfunction. Subnautica was supposed to hit early access last year. The former studio head said they were ready now. But with a quarter billion payday in the balance. I will assume he might not be the most partial of people.

This whole saga sounds like Krafton made a bad purchase, not realizing how dysfunctional the studio is. The studio's dysfunction getting even worse because the founders got their bag when they sold and don't feel any pressure.

I hope the lolsuit goes through. Because it's gonna be a wild one. Nerds getting hoodrich is always a good time. I'm just shocked one of them hasn't claimed to be a woman yet.

 

[Coon Cheese]

I couldn't finish the second game, the jeet voice was fucking disgusting to hear, and the fact the characters spoke turned me off. the first game had a silent protagonist. why do these niggers ruin their own games? the first game was lightning in a bottle. I'm not even going to pirate the new slop they force out their asshole. Happy to see the game already get ruined by corporate trannies. Suffah game devs

 

[Time of Space]

I have only played Subnautica 1, I haven't managed to get Below Zero, yet.

Wasn't the first game just crutching forward? They had tons of issues in the development process, I believe it was another of the early access trash. Literally the only thing the game ever had has been its unique theme.
I remember reading they wanted randomly generated worlds, but they concluded to the static map. Was that really a design choice or a technical limitation, i.e. they couldn't get things to work? When the game released I think it had mid performance at best, and it had stuff missing. Hell, the game still has an "unstuck" option in the pause menu. There are mods to unload Aurora, because, apparently, the shipwreck is always loaded, regardless of where you are on the map (PirateSoftware approves?). Still if you spin the camera around you will get a nice spike on your fans.
Nothing I have seen or vaguely remember has shown that this was a team of extreme competency. They are good, but that is all. Many quality of life things were added after the release.
And then Below Zero. The DLC that became standalone... The main complaint I remember is the size. And maybe some retconing, yeah. But I do not have any real opinion for that, not having played it yet.
To their credit, when Steam Deck came out they rushed to make the game verified. That is the latest update of Subnautica 1 on Steam.

So, how would Subnautica 2 be any better? If people didn't love the rather unique theme of the game, Subnautica 1 would have probably never been finished. And they were just lucky to be competent, in contrast to many other games.
From the "gameplay teaser" it feel like they got all the good components of the (first?) game and improved them, made them... cooler. Maybe even better. But separately. They might or might not make a good result when put together.

After BZ I'm generally of the mind that most, if not all, good aspects of 1 were primarily accidental.

For example: exploration. The map worked exceedingly well in organically pushing the player out of the starting zone because even if the player is apprehensive to go deeper, you need food at a higher rate than fish populations naturally respawn. And since the Safe Shallows is the local peak, any direction you explore towards forces you down without a pop-up going "RAMIREZ YOU GOTTA DIVE DEEPER".

They also seemingly un-learned 1's tactful use of waypoints.
There *are* waypoints that come in over time but even then they more nudging you in the general area than telling you exactly where to go. For example, one of the later markers that comes in is placed nearby one entrance to a cave system which you'll have to explore to progress in the game without pointing much attention to it.

I could go on and on because there is something deeply wrong with me but from the game/world design side of things 1 is, IMO, a positive standout in the genre. Which makes the fact that NONE of those qualities saw a return in BZ all the more jarring.

 

[Not Funny]

So the guy who directed Callisto protocol is now directing this game? Yeah, pass.

 

[p1138]

And then Below Zero. The DLC that became standalone... The main complaint I remember is the size. And maybe some retconing, yeah. But I do not have any real opinion for that, not having played it yet.

It's a dumpster fire of a game that relies on a fucking computer voice constantly nagging the player into doing a bunch of stupid puzzles, exploration is basically non-existent, you spend half the game out of the water so that bit of dread is gone and replaced with just cold which is much easier to avoid because of the thermal plants(as in actual plants everywhere that generate heat for you conveniently), the vehicle progression is simplified to the point of making base building damn near pointless compared to the first game(just get the aquarium car for your underwater train and you pretty much never need to do anything else). Basically everything the first game got right, BZ threw out... including the audio engineer apparently.

Sure, the first game basically has no replay value due to the world being static. But it's fine, and as long as you didn't buy it during early access you didn't have to put up with the slow trickle of content over the course of 4 years, but that's just a problem with early access bullshit in general when they aren't simply abandoned.

 

[Tuna Sandwich]

Wasn't the first game just crutching forward? They had tons of issues in the development process, I believe it was another of the early access trash. Literally the only thing the game ever had has been its unique theme.

Yeah, people remember only the time when this game actually became good. It was just another buggy unfinished mess for a long time on Steam. Now that these devs are saying they totally have an early access version they can release now (it's not because they want that money bag, what would give you that idea?), you can imagine what standard they have for early access, just by looking back. No wonder the publisher didn't like that idea and the leaks only confirm this.

 

[Bear Powers]

I know the political/racial/etcetc angle has been pointed out numerous times already but I feel the need to directly illustrate just how flagrantly in your face the advertising and signage for this series became:

Subnautica 1 steam graphics - store page thumbnail and library top splash screen:





Just a guy, and with a diving mask on, something you'd expect to see in the circumstances. You can't tell anything about the guy in the steam thumbnail. A little clearer in the splash screen.

And then you've got BZ.





Look at meeeeeeeeeeee! Look at my melanated skin!!!!!! Why am I not wearing any kind of mask despite being potentially dozens to hundreds of feet underwater? Because you must see and respect my black skin, that's why!

Yeah I know it's all advertising, can't take it too seriously, or personally at least, but putting the two side to side says just so much about so much, and I think it's revolting.

Also, lol. lmao. This bitch ain't the selling point for either of these games, but sure, put her front and center, whatever.



Though perhaps they may be learning a bit (ahahah fuck no just watch the trailers)

 

[A Sentient Cloud]

Indie devs capture lightning in a bottle on their first foray and fail to iterate on the concept with a bigger budget and greater oversight; many such cases.

I did always have a soft spot for this game, it gave me enough of a sense of dread that I couldn't finish it; deep water is very, very scary to me. That said, I'd like to share my hot take that the creature design in this game is kind of lacking, the "extra eyes and/or eyes in weird places" school of alien design. I think the leviathans in Below Zero were an improvement over the ones in the original game, which were just cartoony looking.

Anyway, this is all very funny, and I will be following the drama. Nice to see a CH that isn't about pedos, troons, or Nick Rekieter.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

It's a dumpster fire of a game that relies on a fucking computer voice constantly nagging the player into doing a bunch of stupid puzzles, exploration is basically non-existent, you spend half the game out of the water so that bit of dread is gone and replaced with just cold which is much easier to avoid because of the thermal plants(as in actual plants everywhere that generate heat for you conveniently), the vehicle progression is simplified to the point of making base building damn near pointless compared to the first game(just get the aquarium car for your underwater train and you pretty much never need to do anything else). Basically everything the first game got right, BZ threw out... including the audio engineer apparently.

Sure, the first game basically has no replay value due to the world being static. But it's fine, and as long as you didn't buy it during early access you didn't have to put up with the slow trickle of content over the course of 4 years, but that's just a problem with early access bullshit in general when they aren't simply abandoned.

Subnautica soundtrack was instant classic, they're fucking idiots for throwing out composer over some tweets

Yeah, people remember only the time when this game actually became good. It was just another buggy unfinished mess for a long time on Steam. Now that these devs are saying they totally have an early access version they can release now (it's not because they want that money bag, what would give you that idea?), you can imagine what standard they have for early access, just by looking back. No wonder the publisher didn't like that idea and the leaks only confirm this.

I followed early access development, probably the first game where I did that. They had Trello board open for everyone where their mostly remote team coordinated, where players could see the progress and make suggestions on various platforms. The progress was steady IMO, they did a good job for a first project at this scale.

 

[Morrowind: GOTY Edition]

This whole saga sounds like Krafton made a bad purchase, not realizing how dysfunctional the studio is. The studio's dysfunction getting even worse because the founders got their bag when they sold and don't feel any pressure.

The founders haven't received their $250 million bonus. It was an earn-out compensation, meaning they were to receive it from the profits of the game (to my knowledge, but it's definitely worded in the release and stated in the lolsuit tweet that the money has not been received.) Which would explain why they're so zealous about the game now, despite it being in development hell for four years now.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

I remember reading they wanted randomly generated worlds, but they concluded to the static map. Was that really a design choice or a technical limitation,

I really wish I could find the documentary again, but from what I remember they chose to make it static. The prototype was much more procedural, they initially tried to put submarine building, you started with only one module (command bay) and you added modules like storage or motors as you got resources, but they couldn't make it interesting so they scrapped it. For map generation, they scrapped it both for technical and design decisions, they couldn't make interesting procedural maps but when they dropped the players into random spots in the shallows, they had the impression it was a new map each time so that was good enough for them. The static map also made it easier to indirectly guide the player through the story having them go deeper.

But with a quarter billion payday in the balance.

$250 million bonus

I haven't tracked down the original article for that, but I've seen online people speculate that the original bonus would actually have been 250 million won, which is about $180k and the currency got lost in translation somewhere. Which would make much more sense than devs getting a quarter billion.

 

[OutInTheRain]

The founders haven't received their $250 million bonus. It was an earn-out compensation, meaning they were to receive it from the profits of the game (to my knowledge, but it's definitely worded in the release and stated in the lolsuit tweet that the money has not been received.) Which would explain why they're so zealous about the game now, despite it being in development hell for four years now.

I thought they got 500 million upfront in the initial sale. The 250 million was an incentive bonus if they hit a certain number of sales figures by the end of 2025. If the company believes that they may get a initial rush of sales if Subnautica 2 hits early access which put them over that milestone. However, if the early access is poor and buggy, it could jepordize future sales and the reputation of the company and the Subnautica brand.

I haven't tracked down the original article for that, but I've seen online people speculate that the original bonus would actually have been 250 million won, which is about $180k and the currency got lost in translation somewhere. Which would make much more sense than devs getting a quarter billion.

250 Million is a lot, and that's one of the questions I have. If it's only 180k US dollars, then that is basically fuck all for most corps. Which, if that is true, then it's not about the money and more about the state Subnautica 2 finds itself in at the moment.

 

[Null]

Why would they pay them $250m upfront???

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Why would they pay them $250m upfront???

Because American Corporate Culture is no longer about providing a product to the customer, it's about providing a product to the investor to make the Stocks go up.

"We are making a second of the Indy Game that was a Fad 2 years ago BUY OUR STONKS!"