What conspiracy theories do you believe in? - Put your tinfoil hats on

Comp0site Specter said:
A lot of conspiracy theories (flat earth, lizard people, moon landing) are astroturfed to discredit other conspiracies by association such as "hey maybe the government killed that guy"
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Even things like Pizzagate and Epstein are convenient distractions that divert you from the real deal that nobody speaks of. They target individuals and not ideas.

Note how nobody is mentioning the possibility of a Communist Revolution -- A rehash of 1917 Russia or 1911 China -- occuring right inside the United States. This is the real catastrophic development required to usher upon the New World Order where everything related to the "olds" will be annihilated and even the slightest bit of sucpicion that you hold free will can lead to the most brutal torture and death imaginable.
 
Whoopsie Daisy said:
How did the black death of Europe end? Did the plague just get tired of killing everyone and give up?
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Better hygiene, better sanitation, and slum clearances. Turns out you're much less likely to catch a bacterial infection if you keep yourself clean, don't shit where you eat, and don't live cheek by jowel with thirty people in a single hovel.
 
teriyakiburns said:
Better hygiene, better sanitation, and slum clearances. Turns out you're much less likely to catch a bacterial infection if you keep yourself clean, don't shit where you eat, and don't live cheek by jowel with thirty people in a single hovel.
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Killed everyone susceptible too.
There’s a fun theory that the Black Death wasn’t a bacterium at all, but repeated waves of an haemorrhagic fever. The evidence put forward to support this is quite interesting. There were none of the type of rats that carry the fleas for example in Iceland, yet they got hit hard, even away from the docks where a few rats might disembark. The pattern of spread is traceable through parish death records and it seems to indicate an incubation period of a few weeks. And people at the time knew it spread person to person - and that gives a few hints it wasn’t a bacterium spread by fleas.
Bubonic plague is the main form, and it’s really only easily transmissible person to person through very close nursing or when it turns into pneumonic plague. Nobody is walking around with pneumonic plague. So then you have known documented cases like Eyam in Derbyshire:
- small village. Plague free.
-tailor arrives in town, only outsider arriving
-dies of plague
-plague outbreak begins.
So how does this happen? Fleas in the cloth is the accepted one but that makes no sense either. He was clearly Infected with something on arrival. Eyam is famous for Th e villagers enforcing their own quarantines - they stopped anyone leaving or coming in and you can still see the plague stones where they left money for people who brought food, in a hollow filled with vinegar.
But hang on:
-they knew it was spread by close contact. They knew vinegar on the money cleaned it.
-they realised a distance stopped the spread (there were stories of lovers meeting at opposite sides of a dell.) But the idea that the fleas were infected then infected the local rats doesn’t hold up. Rats don’t care about a ten metre distance, they will spread throughout a terrace or village. But the spread is only within households and documented contacts, it’s person to person, you can literally trace it through the death records, and that wouldn’t happen if it was rats and fleas. Quarantine worked. That wouldn’t happen if it was rats, rats go next door. It has a clearly defined incubation that doesn’t match y pestis. It can’t be pneumonic plague, once you’re in that state you’re a dead person and not walking around. It very clearly had a non symptomatic incubation stage where it was transmissible (the word quarantine comes from this and was forty days of isolation applied to the ships.)
Waves of plague happened, and then it just disappeared, and nobody really knows why. Y pestis does NOT fit the way it spread,
It’s possible it was an ancient version if y pestis of course, and it was knocking around at the time and it did cause outbreaks, but I personally am not convinced it was responsible for that amount of death. Something like CCHF (Crimean Congo haemorrhagic fever) fits the bill pretty well, possibly introduced from the levant and echoing around Europe for a while.
 
teriyakiburns said:
Better hygiene, better sanitation, and slum clearances. Turns out you're much less likely to catch a bacterial infection if you keep yourself clean, don't shit where you eat, and don't live cheek by jowel with thirty people in a single hovel.
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That's not the bit that is a theory. This bit is: (The formatting will suck, I'm copying and pasting things to make it easier)

Pneumonic plague, however, is highly contagious and can spread through respiratory droplets when an infected person coughs or sneezes.
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Pneumonic plague can be fatal within 18 to 24 hours of symptom onset if left untreated. However, with prompt antibiotic treatment, the disease is curable.
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  • Untreated: Pneumonic plague is almost always fatal without treatment.
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The pneumonic plague, while still present, is no longer the widespread, devastating epidemic it once was due to a combination of factors. Improved sanitation, public health measures like quarantine, and the use of antibiotics
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The first antibiotic, salvarsan, was developed in 1910.
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Britain began a significant transition towards improved sanitation in the 1830s and 40s
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The first quarantine regulations in Britain were introduced in 1663
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Plague pandemics hit the world in three waves from the 1300s to the 1900s and killed millions of people. The first wave, called the Black Death in Europe, was from 1347 to 1351. The second wave in the 1500s saw the emergence of a new virulent strain of the disease
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A highly infectious disease, spread by water droplets from breathe, sneezing and sweat, with a nigh-on 100% mortality rate within 24 hours of infection appearing - unless the sufferer receives antibiotics that weren't invented for another 570 years, prevented from spreading using quarantine that wasn't understood for another 300 years and removed entirely using sanitation that wasn't widely introduced for another 450 years. Due to the lack of these preventatives, a second, more virulent wave of black death hit 150 years after the first, both disappearing without the use of antibiotics, sanitation or quarantine.

bit weird, init?
 
Whoopsie Daisy said:
A highly infectious disease, spread by water droplets from breathe, sneezing and sweat, with a nigh-on 100% mortality rate within 24 hours of infection appearing
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It’s also so nasty that nobody is walking around in an infectious state -neither are you with transmissible bubonic plague yet in Eyam, a tailor is supposed to have arrived on horseback from London to a village near to Sheffield (a fair ride ) and then got sick. It doesn’t fit the disease.
Pneumonic plague doesn’t tend to cause huge outbreaks outside of circumstances like refugee camps. It’s sporadic introductions that burn out fast. We don’t know what it was, and we don’t know why it stopped. Same as the English sweat.
 
I would like to add that the population during the Great Mortality was uniquely vulnerable as thirty years before there had been flooding and crop failure, leading to poor nutrition for the then children population resulting a weakened adult population when it hit.
 
Otterly said:
It’s also so nasty that nobody is walking around in an infectious state -neither are you with transmissible bubonic plague yet in Eyam, a tailor is supposed to have arrived on horseback from London to a village near to Sheffield (a fair ride ) and then got sick. It doesn’t fit the disease.
Pneumonic plague doesn’t tend to cause huge outbreaks outside of circumstances like refugee camps. It’s sporadic introductions that burn out fast. We don’t know what it was, and we don’t know why it stopped. Same as the English sweat.
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Could a virus, which only attacks certain attributes, cause the outbreak?
Forgive my nursery-level understanding of biology, as it isn't my wheelhouse, but could a virus attack a certain type of blood, for example? Could it kill anyone who was O- and leave the rest alive? Or could it wipe out all people with a higher % of dormant DNA/genetic material, like is a population was more Neanderthal than Human? (Those questions are "put something like bleach in the blood to kill COVID" levels of "right idea, wrong language").
 
Purgatory isn't real and if it is, we are all in it right now, sitting in between heaven and hell, waiting out our due time for judgement.
 
Whoopsie Daisy said:
Could a virus, which only attacks certain attributes, cause the outbreak?
Forgive my nursery-level understanding of biology, as it isn't my wheelhouse, but could a virus attack a certain type of blood, for example? Could it kill anyone who was O- and leave the rest alive? Or could it wipe out all people with a higher % of dormant DNA/genetic material, like is a population was more Neanderthal than Human? (Those questions are "put something like bleach in the blood to kill COVID" levels of "right idea, wrong language").
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Sort of. A virus needs an entry point Into the cell and so it can be easier to get into cells from people with certain antigens. That receptor for Y pestis in people is probably a molecule called FRP1. People have looked for other areas that have been apparently selected for in the past and linked them to past selection pressures from unknown diseases. The ones in humans ironically are probably the cause of some autoimmune disorders. So the gene ERAP2 is highly protective against plague, and probably enriched because of selection for it, but it’s also associated with crohn’s disease. The alleles that cause cystic fibrosis are at a far higher frequency in Western Europe than they should be and this indicates a past event that selected for them (it gives resistance to bad diarrhoeal diseases) and one of the CC alleles that protects us against HIV (Europeans aren’t as susceptible) is also thought to be enriched due to plague.
We don’t really have ‘dormant’ DNA in the way some people talk about it, like it’s something that might get turned on and give us superpowers, but we do have a lot of stuff we have no idea what it does. Now I say that, and yet chickens retain the gene for teeth from their lizardy ancestors and you can actually tweak one of those genes and give hens teeth, so I get where it comes from :)
We seem to use our Neanderthals DNA and yes, some of the genes that came from them and persist in us are immune system genes.
As for blood types, yes they certainly do affect how susceptible you are to various infections, although it’s a mixed bag - Covid and malaria you’re LESS likely to get if type O and also if Rh-. But type O blood means you’re MORE likely to get cholera, and lo and behold type O is rarer in India. B seems to provide protection against cholera. Note it’s not all or nothing - it’s a higher or lower chance, but it’s generally agreed that blood type distribution across the world is a mix of the founder effect and random drift and then the selective pressure of diseases on top.
 
Otterly said:
We don’t really have ‘dormant’ DNA in the way some people talk about it, like it’s something that might get turned on and give us superpowers, but we do have a lot of stuff we have no idea what it does
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I want you to watch the season 7 episode of TNG Genesis just to see you laugh hysterically at how the crew "de-evolves" when the doctor activates everyone's "junk DNA" with a synthetic T-cell accidentally. The episode is over thirty years old but I'm sure people still think <95% of our DNA is "junk" and that if you activate it we can turn people into spiders.
 
Cromwell said:
From the Jungian perspective you can definitely attempt to explain the success of America based on the union of opposites principle. I have noticed that when two opposite conflicting views meet in America instead of resolving, they usually morph into a completely new issue that forms a new set of polarized opinions.
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VeteranOfTheRetardWars said:
Personally, I think that chemical alchemy was the study of nature and esoteric alchemy the study of human nature, and therefore rather than alchemy being the cause of things we should view alchemy as a study of natural and human processes. But scale that study up to nations and societies, the same patterns emerge. Microcosm, macrocosm.
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Alchemy is Hermetic in origin, and freemasonry is Hermetic in origin. Hermetic meaning that it descends from the cult of Hermes from ancient greece, which became syncretic with the egyptian god Thoth in a weirder cult. It's easy to look at Hermeticism and confuse it with Gnosticism because we are literally talking about the same period of history and a whole boatload of overlapping symbolism, but the tenets of Hermeticism line up with mainstream christianity and Gnosticism doesn't. Basically the divergence is on whether the order of the universe is good and whether our spiritual providence is based on maintaining the order of the universe. That's also where the concept of synchronicity overlaps in both jungian psychoanalysis and hermetic tradition, seeing patterns in the order of the universe that rationally don't make sense. Jung was very tuned into this stuff and it's why jungian psychoanalysis is generally considered to be borderline spiritual and more evolved than freudian psychoanalysis.

America is called the new colossus for a reason - it's a deeply masonic construction that has been carefully squared. It was purposefully constructed to be a stable system over a long period of time. The eye of providence is an insanely in depth piece of symbolism for american hegemony and there's a reason it's the obverse of the state seal. Those that built these things knew what they wrought - do not mistake their intent.
 
Otterly said:
We don’t really have ‘dormant’ DNA in the way some people talk about it, like it’s something that might get turned on and give us superpowers,
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I meant it more like the "left over remnants of evolution" like appendixes and tail bones etc. Like how dolphins and whales have vestigial (is that the right word?) legs.
 
Whoopsie Daisy said:
I meant it more like the "left over remnants of evolution" like appendixes and tail bones etc. Like how dolphins and whales have vestigial (is that the right word?) legs.
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Yeah like the gene for teeth in chickens? We do have a lot of stuff like that. They are called pseudo genes We tend to repurpose things as well, rather than just shove it in the chromosome equivalent of a cupboard and evolve something new. We also have a lot of things like old viruses that integrated and got silenced, and a lot of stuff we have no real clue what it does. Some people think it’s literal junk, I think some of it has a purpose. Many produce no transcripts, but some are active:
 
Otterly said:
Yeah like the gene for teeth in chickens? We do have a lot of stuff like that. They are called pseudo genes We tend to repurpose things as well, rather than just shove it in the chromosome equivalent of a cupboard and evolve something new. We also have a lot of things like old viruses that integrated and got silenced, and a lot of stuff we have no real clue what it does. Some people think it’s literal junk, I think some of it has a purpose. Many produce no transcripts, but some are active:
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Could it be possible that a virus attacked the dormant pieces of our biology, or used it as entry, to attack us, like the plague, and was burned out by killing everyone who had more of the 'junk' than others? Or that it reactivated old 'junk' genes that worked with/aided the virus doing what it did or blocked our immune system from doing so?

If we had 50% of population with neanderthal blood cells (not literally but just for talk sake so I can ELI5 it to myself) that allowed a virus easy entry because of it, and wiped those people out (evolution, innit?). Once the wave was done, the virus knocked about until it evolved to find another easy entry point in those that had Neanderthal hair and since then, because of hygiene and antibiotics, or because they're all dead, a new wave hasn't managed to frag us again?
 
Whoopsie Daisy said:
Or that it reactivated old 'junk' genes that worked with/aided the virus doing what it did or blocked our immune system from doing so?
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The examples given above are kind of accidental side effects and what you’re describing sounds purposeful. Evolution doesn’t work towards a goal, remember, it just acts in the moment. So you do end up with unforeseen consequences and blind ends but it’s not as though the virus intends to do this.
Whoopsie Daisy said:
Once the wave was done, the virus knocked about until it evolved to find another easy entry point
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Yeah this is kind of what happens. It’s often called the evolutionary arms race. We cold or flu pops up, we get sick, we all either get better or die, and then it’s ok until the virus mutates to another strain and then we get sick… rinse and repeat. Viruses tend to evolve to be more transmissible and less damaging over time, but that process has bumps along the road where it may for a short time be more virulent.
It’d be a good sci fi setting - an intelligent virus hellbent on killing off a species, or used to prune genes away.
The appendix by the way seems to be a refuge for beneficial gut bacteria - while it’s a vestigial structure, it’s not useless.
 
Otterly said:
The examples given above are kind of accidental side effects and what you’re describing sounds purposeful. Evolution doesn’t work towards a goal, remember, it just acts in the moment. So you do end up with unforeseen consequences and blind ends but it’s not as though the virus intends to do this.
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Not purposeful as it has intent, more odds and statistics. Akin to the virus mutating 1,000,000 times in the gaps between the waves of Plague, with it taking 150 years for the evolution to happen that just so happens to be super virulent due to the chances of it finding an easier attack vector, leading to the virus been able to spread and replicate faster, before our bodies catch up (or in this scenario, don't posses the 'junk' DNA for the virus to attack us) before the virus has killed too many hosts and goes dormant again. This time taking nearly 350 years before it has mutated enough to attack again in the 1900s' shortly before the Spanish flu.

Or, was the plague really a very bad flu/OG covid that existed in rats/fleas and became a (what's it called when a virus attacks two different species?) that people mistook for a plague. It was spread like flu, lowering the immune system and allowing other bacterium/viruses to enter our bodies which presented in sores and boils.
Could the plague have been the flu-strain equivilent of Dinosaurs - organic monstrosities too big and aggressive to survive, leading to the demise of the species, leaving behind only tiny little dinosaurs like alligators, or in the case of a virus, the common cold?

Plague wave 3 lines up with Spanish flu...
 
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