Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Probably more than a dozen Warp 1 ships around Earth at any given time, but you don't exactly need to go at superluminal speeds to put a drone controlled ship in front of the Florida limiter.

I don't care, just stick a bunch of them in front of the sphere before it gets anywhere near the Earth.

"Captain, I'm detecting an unidentified foreign object hearing towards Neptune."

"Eh, it's probably just a comet or asteroid."

How well would random transport ship handle the Xindi Death Ball?

How I'm guessing Starfleet explained their lack of defense to the Vulcan High Command after the Xindi Incident:

All lawyers were killed in the post-atomic horror, with Earth becoming a paradise not even 20 years later

I think the only episode where there were human lawyers was the very first court martial episode. Every other time, all you had to do to be a lawyer was have a certain amount of pips on your collar.

The Gorn go into hibernation if their suns get too bright

Of course, what an ingenious plan! That's why when the Gorn in TOS fought Kirk in broad daylight, he wasn't affected in the slightest!

Seriously, they're lizards. How hard would it be to change it so extreme cold makes them hibernate? We even saw them wearing protective suits in the last episode of Season 2.

And one of Q's sons fucked around with the crew of the Enterprise no bloody A,B,C, or D.

How many times have the main characters encountered future threats to the Federation? Enterprise had the Ferengi and Borg, while this show had Sybok, the Gorn, and now the Q. What, are the Jem'Hadar going to attack next season?

Did at least one of the bridge crew go into an autistic explanation about how that and the Spice Girls were used as psychological warfare and torture devices during the Eugenics Wars/WW3? No? Fucking lame.

Follow-up question: Did they call the song classical music?

 

[Mr. Racewar1488]

How many times have the main characters encountered future threats to the Federation? Enterprise had the Ferengi and Borg, while this show had Sybok, the Gorn, and now the Q. What, are the Jem'Hadar going to attack next season?

I forgot to add that John de Lancie does voice work in the episode. And his 8000 year old son mentions "the old homeworld" so the theory that the Q are future humans is no longer canon.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

Okay, so the Gorn went from "we just want to be left alone, so you lot best don't fuck with us" to "WE WILL USE YOUR FLESH TO CREATE OFFSPRING AND WE WILL USE YOUR BIOMASS TO FUEL OUR TECH, we are also evil uwu". Thanks, nuTrek, for reaffirming every single stupid trope that was ever conceived about reptilians that maintain a sophisticated technological society. Great job, you fucking hackfrauds...

 

[AvonHertz]

And one of Q's sons fucked around with the crew of the Enterprise no bloody A,B,C, or D.

I'm pretty sure it was Trelane based on his outfit and mannerisms. They just finally made him being a Q canon.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

How many times have the main characters encountered future threats to the Federation? Enterprise had the Ferengi and Borg, while this show had Sybok, the Gorn, and now the Q. What, are the Jem'Hadar going to attack next season?

>ferengi

>threat

Well I guess a Ferengi marauder did capture the fucking Galaxy-class flagship of the fleet once, and they at least once raided the ship for prime spacemilfs. (Lwaxana and Deanna are the mother daughter threesome you desperately wanted don't lie)

Okay, so the Gorn went from "we just want to be left alone, so you lot best don't fuck with us" to "WE WILL USE YOUR FLESH TO CREATE OFFSPRING AND WE WILL USE YOUR BIOMASS TO FUEL OUR TECH, we are also evil uwu". Thanks, nuTrek, for reaffirming every single stupid trope that was ever conceived about reptilians that maintain a sophisticated technological society. Great job, you fucking hackfrauds...

Kind of, kind of not. I don't think this happened to humans. SNW is actually quite good.

Discovery suffers from how good Sonequa Martin-Green's acting actually is. The original TOS was stuffed full of character actors who hammed it up because that's why people watched them every week. Turnabout Intruder was so good because it was Kirk turning up the ham to the omega beyond Doctor Who level somehow. (Also women can be starship captains; the line in that episode about it was clearly about a woman scorned and I understood that when I was 4.) And of course the rest of the I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE crew. TOS was about military men being written by military men, idk who wrote Discovery but it wasn't so good.

SNW and LD and season 3 of Picard were written by people who actually like Star Trek. Discovery was meant to be a "deconstruction" I guess that suffered from too many tone shifts in its first season, had an incomprehensible mystery box in the second season, and I guess they got shifted to the future and they had to deal with Temporal Cold War bullshit. Because for some reason there's a bunch of fucking nods to Enterprise of all things in new Trek. SF Debris was right that every starship captain has to spit when they hear Archer's name. (If it matters any my dad and I came up with the theory that the Enterprise in Enterprise was filled with people that it wasn't politically expedient to get rid of, since United Earth couldn't just disappear people, but it was better if you just sent them far away from Earth for whatever reason.)

Anyway I'm a fucking nerd and I show it by writing essays about Star Trek. The point is SNW isn't bad. The Gorn in it are essentially telling Federationers to fuck off from their territory and if they don't they will treat them like they do all non Gorn. And honestly, they were right to push back against the expanding Federation, and it works as a story arc in SNW.

 

[ShapelyMutton]

Lwaxana and Deanna are the mother daughter threesome

You're right but only for the fact that they were psychically linked and could feel what each other was feeling. I'm sure there's better Betazoid oyakodon out there but we just don't know about it

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

SNW is actually quite good.

You don't have to keep working to maintain the pink triangle once you get it. It's permanent.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

You don't have to keep working to maintain the pink triangle once you get it. It's permanent.

It actually is pretty good compared with Discovery and seasons 1 and 2 of Picard. Most of it is on par with the better episodes of Voyager.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Okay, so the Gorn went from "we just want to be left alone, so you lot best don't fuck with us" to "WE WILL USE YOUR FLESH TO CREATE OFFSPRING AND WE WILL USE YOUR BIOMASS TO FUEL OUR TECH, we are also evil uwu". Thanks, nuTrek, for reaffirming every single stupid trope that was ever conceived about reptilians that maintain a sophisticated technological society. Great job, you fucking hackfrauds...

I suppose the intent was to explain how the Federation came to view the Gorn as enemies, but what was wrong with making them warmongers? The whole deal with the Gorn in "Arena" was that he was more than a scary lizard monster, and that was why Kirk spared his life.

This is something I've noticed happens a lot in the modern Star Trek shows. They need to have their villains do cartoonishly evil things, like how Mirror Georgiou literally ate Kelpians, or how the Borg Queen's ultimate plan was create a new generation of Borg drones through rape. We get it, they're villains. You don't need to constantly remind us of this.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

Kind of, kind of not. I don't think this happened to humans. SNW is actually quite good.

One of the thoughts I had when they showed the insides of the Gorn mothership? "They're going to copy the Wraith aren't they..." And yep, structurally, this was the same as the SG Atlantis-pilot. The real shame here is that they didn't poke me really in the eyes by casting Robert Patrick to be one of the guys getting eaten by a Gorn on the way out. The thing about the Wraith is: they were clearly designed, set up, constructed and executed as monsters that consume entire planets to maintain their civilisations. They're a system that does what a system does. The Gorn were not. They were militant isolationists that shot on sight when someone encroached on their territory, but never invaded first, but also could be persuaded by diplomacy. That was the main point about them in TOS, right after Kirk admitting his racial bias against reptilians.

Anyway I'm a fucking nerd and I show it by writing essays about Star Trek. The point is SNW isn't bad. The Gorn in it are essentially telling Federationers to fuck off from their territory and if they don't they will treat them like they do all non Gorn. And honestly, they were right to push back against the expanding Federation, and it works as a story arc in SNW.

Then you know what the Gorn did on Cestus. They didn't eat the colonists or used them as fuel. Nope, they glassed the site from orbit and disintegrated the red shirts when Kirk arrived to investigate and then the Gorn captain explained to Kirk why that was done: you set up colonies in our space, we view that as a hostile act and act accordingly.

 

[The Gene Genie]

This is something I've noticed happens a lot in the modern Star Trek shows. They need to have their villains do cartoonishly evil things, like how Mirror Georgiou literally ate Kelpians, or how the Borg Queen's ultimate plan was create a new generation of Borg drones through rape. We get it, they're villains. You don't need to constantly remind us of this.

I think that this is because "new writers" don't want to have what happened to Dukat and the Cardassians happen to them, where the audience sympathized and actually liked them. They want to constantly reaffirm, continuously, that the BAD GUYS are BAD and if you think they're morally grey or ambiguous or "could be justified from a certain point of view" then YOU are BAD too. It's the preachy Neo-Puriticanical mindset of the modern Coastal Elite shitlib that ends up in the writing rooms, especially because all of their heroes are just stand-ins for their 2010s-2020s political-moral ideology, and all of their villains are stand-ins for their ideological enemies.

 

[black people]

This is something I've noticed happens a lot in the modern Star Trek shows. They need to have their villains do cartoonishly evil things, like how Mirror Georgiou literally ate Kelpians, or how the Borg Queen's ultimate plan was create a new generation of Borg drones through rape. We get it, they're villains. You don't need to constantly remind us of this.

People don't have the patience to sit through a classic TNG/DS9-style episode. They are making something with mass appeal. That means targeting the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be obvious and easily understandable so even the dumbest person can understand it and like it. TNG space battles where they shoot the phasers a couple of times and fire a photon torpedo when shit gets really serious had more drama and tension than the nu Trek battles where it's just a big mess of millions of phasers and photon torpedoes. The latter diffuses the tension by showing you that there's no stakes. They are all able to withstand hundreds of hits and the battle is meaningless.

 

[TaimuRadiu]

I think that this is because "new writers" don't want to have what happened to Dukat and the Cardassians happen to them, where the audience sympathized and actually liked them. They want to constantly reaffirm, continuously, that the BAD GUYS are BAD and if you think they're morally grey or ambiguous or "could be justified from a certain point of view" then YOU are BAD too. It's the preachy Neo-Puriticanical mindset of the modern Coastal Elite shitlib that ends up in the writing rooms, especially because all of their heroes are just stand-ins for their 2010s-2020s political-moral ideology, and all of their villains are stand-ins for their ideological enemies.

You know this guy who was the last Legate in charge of Bajor when it was causing the fall of the Cardassian Empire and set up a neofascist govt as a quisling puppetted by Changeling invaders may not be such a good guy. I understood this when I was 10.

Evil can be charming and evil can be manipulative and a TV programme needs both good writing and good actors, and Marc Alaimo is a fantastic actor.

 

[The Gene Genie]

You know this guy who was the last Legate in charge of Bajor when it was causing the fall of the Cardassian Empire and set up a neofascist govt as a quisling puppetted by Changeling invaders may not be such a good guy. I understood this when I was 10.

Evil can be charming and evil can be manipulative and a TV programme needs both good writing and good actors, and Marc Alaimo is a fantastic actor.

But if you're some nepobaby Coastal Elite shitlib tasked with writing, you CANNOT have your bad guys (who are going to be stand-ins for Nazis/MAGA/whoever your ideological opponent is) be charming or cool. They have to be maniacal and "I-eat-babies-for-breakfast" nonsensically evil, because otherwise people will find them cool like how they find the Empire/Cardassians/Caesar's Legion cool and you're not allowed to find the BAD GUYS cool.

These people aren't writing programs to be "excellent television," they're writing it to make a political-ideological point.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

One of the thoughts I had when they showed the insides of the Gorn mothership? "They're going to copy the Wraith aren't they..." And yep, structurally, this was the same as the SG Atlantis-pilot. The real shame here is that they didn't poke me really in the eyes by casting Robert Patrick to be one of the guys getting eaten by a Gorn on the way out. The thing about the Wraith is: they were clearly designed, set up, constructed and executed as monsters that consume entire planets to maintain their civilisations. They're a system that does what a system does. The Gorn were not. They were militant isolationists that shot on sight when someone encroached on their territory, but never invaded first, but also could be persuaded by diplomacy. That was the main point about them in TOS, right after Kirk admitting his racial bias against reptilians.

The Wraith were also an original race in an entirely separate galaxy. They weren't established as some offshoot of the Goa'uld or the Replicators. By making them an original race, the writers had more creative freedom when establishing their society.

With the Gorn, you have the problem of needing to fit them into the same continuity as TOS. Discovery at least managed to get away with using Harry Mudd because all the characters he interacted with in that show wouldn't be present during the events of TOS. With Strange New Worlds, the Enterprise crew can't beat the Gorn or broker a peace treaty because "Arena" hasn't happened yet. And of course, nobody on the Enterprise, not even Spock, Uhura, or Scotty, thought of putting in a report to watch out for the Gorn in a few years after they finish hibernating.

Then you know what the Gorn did on Cestus. They didn't eat the colonists or used them as fuel. Nope, they glassed the site from orbit and disintegrated the red shirts when Kirk arrived to investigate and then the Gorn captain explained to Kirk why that was done: you set up colonies in our space, we view that as a hostile act and act accordingly.

So they basically turned the Gorn into the aliens from Feeders. One minute, they're eating random humans, the next, they're using their advanced spaceships to conquer Earth.

I think that this is because "new writers" don't want to have what happened to Dukat and the Cardassians happen to them, where the audience sympathized and actually liked them. They want to constantly reaffirm, continuously, that the BAD GUYS are BAD and if you think they're morally grey or ambiguous or "could be justified from a certain point of view" then YOU are BAD too. It's the preachy Neo-Puriticanical mindset of the modern Coastal Elite shitlib that ends up in the writing rooms, especially because all of their heroes are just stand-ins for their 2010s-2020s political-moral ideology, and all of their villains are stand-ins for their ideological enemies.

A huge part of Dukat's character was how he had convinced himself that he was the good guy, and all of his atrocities were justified. Wonder if lefty writers worried that hit too close to home.

But if you're some nepobaby Coastal Elite shitlib tasked with writing, you CANNOT have your bad guys (who are going to be stand-ins for Nazis/MAGA/whoever your ideological opponent is) be charming or cool. They have to be maniacal and "I-eat-babies-for-breakfast" nonsensically evil, because otherwise people will find them cool like how they find the Empire/Cardassians/Caesar's Legion cool and you're not allowed to find the BAD GUYS cool.

Jesus, is this what Roddenberry was thinking when he first created the Ferengi back in the 80s?

 

[TaimuRadiu]

Jesus, is this what Roddenberry was thinking when he first created the Ferengi back in the 80s?

I think that was actually Herbert J Wright who came up with them. Since the Federation is a socialist society (when I was 4 I interpreted it as "space communist" and I wasn't far off), the Ferengi had to be the worst stereotypes of 80s capitalists possible. That they just happened to come across like the slimiest kikeist Jews is just hilarious.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

>the Federation is just space communism
lol, lmao even. It's closer to what I'd term 'benevolent space fascism' than anything else. Don't let the current year leftards tell you otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_to_Come

The Shape of Things to Come - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How the United Earth came about in Trek is very similiar. How humanity then sets out to colonise the galaxy, finds new allies and forms a large heavily armed Federation of equals is just the logical extrapolation from there.

 

[Post Reply]

>the Federation is just space communism
lol, lmao even. It's closer to what I'd term 'benevolent space fascism' than anything else. Don't let the current year leftards tell you otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_to_Come

The Shape of Things to Come - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How the United Earth came about in Trek is very similiar. How humanity then sets out to colonise the galaxy, finds new allies and forms a large heavily armed Federation of equals is just the logical extrapolation from there.

I had never though about Things To Come in relation to Trek, but Welles was one of those futurist utopian socialists rather like Roddenberry.

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

I had never though about Things To Come in relation to Trek, but Welles was one of those futurist utopian socialists rather like Roddenberry.

Both the book and the movie based on that book fell into obscurity for obvious reasons. Can't have the wrongthink we just vanquished be celebrated as a force for good and genuine progress, now can we. For me personally, that and what 'made' fascism fascism (among other things, like Italian futurism, the origins of Stalinism, Soviet cybernetics and so on) - all of that makes leftoid ramblings about how 'we always opposed fascism' so utterly meaningless and devoid of any substance. These people never read Sorel, don't know Lenin thought highly of Mussolini, can't even comprehend that fascism never was overtly racist or any other little thing that makes the 1920s so fricking weird and awesome.
/schizo rambling over

 

[TaimuRadiu]

>the Federation is just space communism
lol, lmao even. It's closer to what I'd term 'benevolent space fascism' than anything else. Don't let the current year leftards tell you otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_to_Come

The Shape of Things to Come - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How the United Earth came about in Trek is very similiar. How humanity then sets out to colonise the galaxy, finds new allies and forms a large heavily armed Federation of equals is just the logical extrapolation from there.

No, it's definitely space communism in the USSR style but TOS at least was like Horatio Hornblower IN SPACE. Think about it:

- Massive gunships sent to "persuade" planets to have trade deals (in at least one episode of TNG you see the Enterprise use their massive weapons load to rejuvenate a planet's atmosphere)
- Promise of infinite aid as long as you do what they want (see Eddington's "more insidious than the Borg" speech)
- Money went the way of the dinosaur definitely by the time of TNG, probably is still around in the pre TNG era (people use credits in TOS and DIS)
This kind of happened in Communist countries, is still true in DPRK, unless you have hard currency from abroad like gold pressed latinum that is
- All health care and jobs are assigned by the government, or at least by the time of TNG
- Political officers on board starships sometimes (remember The Drumhead?)
- Severe taboos against certain classes (Augments)


In addition to all of this Roddenberry was also an esoteric Trotzkyist (Posadism)