Stop Killing Games (EU edition) - Moldman vs. Publishers

[StacticShock]

The initiative isn't meant to be "here is a bill we want to pass and if we get 1m votes you have to debate it". It is instead an initiative that forces the EU to debate an issue that the populace is concerned about. If they think it is a problem they'll get their own magistrates to write a proper law on it they can vote into effect. If the lobbyists arent retarded they can do a lot of work there. But they have to be willing to give up a little, if they try to stand their ground on this I think the EU gets annoyed and will just push through something.

so it's basically the lootbox thing that was very retarded with "chance being thrilling" kind of shit?

 

[Waffle Iron]

so it's basically the lootbox thing that was very retarded with "chance being thrilling" kind of shit?

Did you not see ross is videos on this, or read the material? The EU is allowed to discuss it, and then decide it is stupid and do nothing. I don't know in what country you live, but plenty of countries have some sort of "right to petition". Those are not binding. The advantages are that 1) politicians supporting the petition can wave around the signatures as a prop during their speech 2) it allows citizens to bring something to the attention of the government without getting attacked. Ross called it an easy win since it is pro consumer, and won't cost the government any money. Thus most would be in favor of it.

 

[StacticShock]

Did you not see ross is videos on this, or read the material?

i saw it, it's also why i mentioned he made things vague on purpose but how eurotards act when debating is a different thing since i'm not a eurotard.
i remember the chance being thrilling talk from that lootbox bitch because everyone mocked her for it and it was on a euro court, if i remember well she was the one that called it surprise mechanics too, again, peak retardation.

and won't cost the government any money. Thus most would be in favor of it.

again, i don't know how EU works, if they are like americas then lobbyists going to lobby but it seems that anticonsumer shit like jail time for copyrights and intellectual property/patenting that isn't heavily consumer unfriendly doesn't pass there so they have a good point vs the west.

 

[Gossip Avoider]

What libertarians don't understand, the government isn't a person on a side but the rope.

What non-libertarians don't understand is libertarianism

Spoiler: Three Hours Later...

At least from my perspective there is a gigantic red flag in SKG because it treats the state like a neutral referee instead of the creator of the problem

 

[Inspector Rex]

so it's basically the lootbox thing that was very retarded with "chance being thrilling" kind of shit?

No, it's a tool to bring up issues before EU Commission while not needing to fund an army of lawyers.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

What libertarians don't understand, the government isn't a person on a side but the rope.

The government isn't a rope. It's the hand that decides who gets to pull and who gets strangled
The entire structure exists to tilt outcomes by threat of force. If it were truly neutral, then you wouldn't need a license, a permit, a tax, or a mandate to do what peaceful people already had the right to do
Libertarians understand the state just fine. What they reject is this poetic sleight-of-hand that turns a coercive hierarchy into background scenery

 

[Gossip Avoider]

The government isn't a rope. It's the hand that decides who gets to pull and who gets strangled

A hand doesn't decide who gets to pull, the hand just pulls.

The executive, judicial and legislative branches are tools/hands/ropes.
The vector can be influenced, either internal or external.
The EU-Commissioner is an example of internal force and SKG, lobby and activist groups are external forces.

The pull you can have is not against those tools, but by applying those tools against forces with a different vector.
Libertarians see the application of those tolls already as a violation of the nap and are thus in the best case irrelevant and the worst case useful idiots.
When libertarians advocate for letting the tools/rope fall because they see those tools as vectors itself, libertarians become the latter.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

A hand doesn't decide who gets to pull, the hand just pulls.

The executive, judicial and legislative branches are tools/hands/ropes.
The vector can be influenced, either internal or external.
The EU-Commissioner is an example of internal force and SKG, lobby and activist groups are external forces.

The pull you can have is not against those tools, but by applying those tools against forces with a different vector.
Libertarians see the application of those tolls already as a violation of the nap and are thus in the best case irrelevant and the worst case useful idiots.
When libertarians advocate for letting the tools/rope fall because they see those tools as vectors itself, libertarians become the latter.

You can't have it both ways
If the state is just a "tool" with no vector of its own, then why are people afraid of it? Why do politicians compete for control over it? Why does it crush peaceful action unless you ask permission first?
A rope doesn't jail people. A rope doesn't enforce monopolies. A rope doesn't kill.
It's not passivity, it's direction. That is will. That is a structure with inherent consequences.

You call libertarians "useful idiots" for refusing to touch the whip. But if the only way to win is to become the hand that lashes, what exactly are you preserving?
The refusal to initiate force isn't irrelevant, it's a line in the sand against a world where every "tool" becomes soaked in blood and euphemist cope

 

[derapples]

At least from my perspective there is a gigantic red flag in SKG because it treats the state like a neutral referee instead of the creator of the problem

How does the state create the problem of stoping video games from being run by player communities after end of developer support?

 

[Spud]

But if the only way to win is to become the hand that lashes, what exactly are you preserving?

My selfish interests. I want to be left alone however to ensure that I need to exude a level of force that will make people ensure they do not make themselves my enemy as they know what happened to the last one. For my friends, my unyielding loyalty. For my enemies, my undying hatred.

 

[Farmholio]

No, it's a tool to bring up issues before EU Commission while not needing to fund an army of lawyers.

But also the fact that this succeeds will hopefully contribute to a growing momentum due to the press it generates and whatnot. It's basically proof this is a real issue a group of active potential voters care about enough to do something about it. Eventually there may be a funded political campaign in motion that actually has the power of money and lawyers behind it. People have demonstrated they care about it, and supposedly many of them are also willing to donate money to the cause (there just isn't anywhere to donate yet). This is just the first step in what may be a long process. Unfortunately Ross isn't willing to (more or less) sacrifice the remainder of his life trying to pursue this long term so I suppose some other figurehead(s) will have to step up if such a thing is to happen.

Like, yeah the initiative itself isn't a bill before a legislature that is being put into force by a referendum. It's just a petition basically. But the amount of signatures required is so huge precisely because it is meant to indicate there's a real issue here that needs to be addressed, because there's so many people affected by it enough to do something not less arduous than, say, voting in an election. I'm not an expert in EU politics but I think that perforce the EU parliament must at least debate the issues brought before them in petitions like this. That means this isn't a fire and forget move, and people still need to maintain interest and keep pushing probably in the future to make a real change. People shouldn't have illusions that these signatures represent the ultimate kill move.

Ross talking about it like it's the only shot and the best shot are not really entirely truthful, I'd say he's just trying to make himself feel less awful over the fact that he simply cannot justify becoming a full time political campaigner and that no matter how much he cares about the issue there is a limit on how much he's willing to contribute. This isn't the one and only step to achieving an end to this practice, most likely. It's probably just the beginning of some real hope.

Btw I'm fully in support of Ross taking a step back and returning to full time "normal" video making. He's not even suited for political work. He was a figurehead of convenience. It would be good to keep him intimately involved in any future actions for the sake of continuity, but having him as the central figure was never... I guess I'd say optimal. And frankly I feel for the guy. He is unjustifiably in a position he'd rather not be in.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

How does the state create the problem of stoping video games from being run by player communities after end of developer support?

Because, without the state, publishers would not have the legal power to block preservation
The reason player communities can't take over a dead game is that copyright law, DMCA takedowns, and artificial license terms make it illegal to run servers, share binaries, or bypass protections, even in the many cases where the original developer has walked away.

Remove the state from that equation and there is no one to enforce the lock. The cage is the law, the law is the cage.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

You can't have it both ways
If the state is just a "tool" with no vector of its own, then why are people afraid of it? Why do politicians compete for control over it? Why does it crush peaceful action unless you ask permission first?
A rope doesn't jail people. A rope doesn't enforce monopolies. A rope doesn't kill.
It's not passivity, it's direction. That is will. That is a structure with inherent consequences.

You call libertarians "useful idiots" for refusing to touch the whip. But if the only way to win is to become the hand that lashes, what exactly are you preserving?
The refusal to initiate force isn't irrelevant, it's a line in the sand against a world where every "tool" becomes soaked in blood and euphemist cope

Sometimes the government is a perpetrator, sometimes it's a tool. In this case it's a the latter, since the stronger side disregards people's rights, while working as a cartel.

The idea of becoming part of the problem for fighting back is something a 12 year old would think

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Sometimes the government is a perpetrator, sometimes it's a tool. In this case it's a the latter, since the stronger side disregards people's rights, while working as a cartel.

The idea of becoming part of the problem for fighting back is something a 12 year old would think

You're not describing a neutral tool, you're describing a captured weapon
If the state ignores people's rights and serves cartels, that is not "sometimes a perpetrator", that is perpetration. Saying "it's just a tool here" is like saying that a mugger's gun is just a tool when it's aimed at someone you don't like

The point isn't the use of force, it's the delegation of force to an institution that claims universal authority. When you use the state, you reinforce its license to debank dissenters, to enforce dogshit EULAs, to put you in a cage for noncompliance, to indoctrinate your kids, to shoot your dog if you say a wrong thing.
You don't seize the whip to end the whipping, you just hope that you're the one holding it next time
That's not maturity, that's moral outsourcing

 

[The Tall Man]

 

[Farmholio]

See this is what I'm talking about. You have to expect resistance of this kind at every turn. This is not going to be a slam dunk no matter how many signatures are on the petition. This is a war. Consumers have to remain vigilant and active until laws and regulations actually materialize. This is just the beginning. And yes they are going to lie their asses off any time they are sure they can get away with it.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

What is supposed to be the "legal basis" behind this complaint? That Ross' own outreach, videomaking, and other work he has done to promote SKG as a whole is somehow exceeding the 500 Euro value of work SKG is supposed to disclose as an ECI initiative?

EDIT: Thats exactly what the complaint is arguing, but the funny thing is that volunteering towards a cause and not receiving money for doing it does not make you count as a sponsor, which is what the fucking retarded complaint was attempting to argue

 

[GeorgeFloydFentanylStash]

See this is what I'm talking about. You have to expect resistance of this kind at every turn. This is not going to be a slam dunk no matter how many signatures are on the petition. This is a war. Consumers have to remain vigilant and active until laws and regulations actually materialize. This is just the beginning. And yes they are going to lie their asses off any time they are sure they can get away with it.

I expect them to cook up some damning evidence against Ross.

 

[Spiral Architect]

Holy shit this is pure libel. What's next, are they going to claim he bought people's souls for candies?

 

[Right To Bear Blarms]

Even if this were to go through, wouldn't publishers be able to get around this by no longer even selling games in the EU? Couldn't they just make it so their games are only available via subscription services such as Game Pass or EA Play or whatever the Ubisoft version is?