Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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I actually like Strange New Worlds, and while I think Ethan Peck does a good job as Spock, the show doesn't really understand how Vulcans work.

There's an episode where Spock becomes human, and they act like being Vulcan naturally makes someone stoic, not years of mental training, so Spock struggles to control his emotions. Hell, that same episode has a scene where Spock eats bacon with his hands, which goes against Vulcan etiquette.

They double down on this misunderstanding again this season. I like the show but this clip is bad.


I also don't like when technology is essentially just magic. At least in TNG when they changed species it was done by the doctors with procedures.
 
Remember the time Quark trooned out?
Seasons 3 through 6 were peak Quark.

S1 is Quark running harebrained scams, getting the entire station involved, like this little freak is singlehandedly keeping the station's security employed.

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Jadzia dies and suddenly the writers are like, “What if Quark... grew emotionally?” And it’s like, no! Stop! That’s not what he’s for.
 
S1 is Quark running harebrained scams, getting the entire station involved, like this little freak is singlehandedly keeping the station's security employed.
Remember, out of everyone in the entire cast, Quark is the first one to learn about the Dominion, all because of a get-rich-quick scheme.
 
Remember, out of everyone in the entire cast, Quark is the first one to learn about the Dominion, all because of a get-rich-quick scheme.
There are a handful of moments in DS9 that, to me, encapsulate what Trek is about.
  • This real shit right here.
  • Quark becoming head of a Klingon Noble house because he balanced a spreadsheet
  • Martok promising to add a verse about Garak and Bashir to his war hymn
 
You know FUNCTIONALLY Data has emotional responses. His programming obviously includes a system that generates personal preferences by value judgments, probably based on an initial partially random seed implanted by Dr. Soong at the moment of his activation. Whenever Data is required to make choices, his operating system gives him negative or positive feedback of some kind which allows him to generate preferences, and then subsequently reinforce those preferences. That in essence grants him pathos, even if technically it isn't moderated by biochemistry. When you see him in The Most Toys confronted with probably the most intense dilemmas he's ever faced, the situation is plainly causing him a state of mind equivalent to distress. It's a different kind of emotional distress than a human would subjectively experience but there's no functional distinction. It is hurtful for him to be forced to choose between a series of actions which are all strongly against his personality preferences. When pushed into such a scenario it causes instability not at all dissimilar to a human's irrationality, to the point that Data briefly became capable of lying, and killing. He also was shown to be capable of irrational behavior in pursuit of things he strongly preferred as well.

What happens in a sentient android's mind when he does something, when he achieves something, that his system's preferences describe as positive? What happens in his mind when there is a goal he becomes aware of that his personality matrix obliges him to pursue? Would he not require some kind of positive/negative reinforcement in his mechanical brain to actually make choices and act on those choices? Something must be happening there to create positive and negative reactions.... FEELINGS if you will. In other words, to have preferences and autonomous will to act, there has to be some kind of internal sensation that informs you what outcomes and actions are bad and good. Some species of sensation in his brain drives him and motivates him, and that motivation is fundamentally what emotion is all about. Otherwise Data would never do anything except what he is explicitly commanded/programmed to do, he would never generate or follow personal preferences, and his personality would be unchanging and utterly predictable. I think philosophically there's no difference between the sensations going on in Data's mind that drive his behavior and the sensations going on a human mind that drive our behavior. You could call both things "emotions".

If there existed an alien race that evolved on a different planet that had human level intelligence, they too would have alien subjective emotional worlds, but we wouldn't say they "lack emotions" as long as they have behavioral patterns that govern their choices and preferences by sensory input.

Just something I think about from time to time watching TNG. There's good reason the Federation and the crew of the Enterprise consider Data to be a living sentient being. All intelligent living things are controlled by extremely complex algorithms (complex to the point of being difficult or impossible to deterministically predict). Data is no different.
 
Then it's revealed in the final season of Enterprise that it was Romulan infiltration of Vulcanian society, because Vulcan can't possibly have a complicated society with Dunning-Kruger in full effect like in every Human society.
There wasn't any implication of romulan infiltration. At most, it was implied that there might have been a traitor in the high command (which in itself doesn't require the traitor to know who the romulans actually are), with some level of possibility that the Vulcan authorities might have known who the romulans were and kept it secret from everyone else, which was consistent with their prior behaviour.
 
There wasn't any implication of romulan infiltration. At most, it was implied that there might have been a traitor in the high command (which in itself doesn't require the traitor to know who the romulans actually are), with some level of possibility that the Vulcan authorities might have known who the romulans were and kept it secret from everyone else, which was consistent with their prior behaviour.
They outright stated that in one of the fourth season episodes. (Off the top of my head) The head of the Vulcan High Command was subverted by Romulans for whatever reason and this was heavily covered up. This is both consistent with what we know of Romulans and, as you said, consistent with how Vulcans actually act. The fans shit themselves because OH SPOCK WOULDN'T ACT LIKE THAT when Spock is repeatedly said to be an outlier in Vulcanian society, a haafa who is also of a noble family who chose Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy. The dude was also meeting with actual Romulans on Vulcan somehow I think.

I feel I should also state that Spock did act sneaky and spy like at times, most notably in The Enterprise Incident (Roddenberry hated it, but everyone else loved it; Roddenberry said "Our heroes don't sneak around") and in Unification, where he went underground on Romulus itself and could apparently "pass" as a Romulan. (Unification also originally began with a brief blurb about Gene Roddenberry dying lol)

@Farmholio

Data simply has android Asperger's or something like that. Lore has basically android bipolar and Soong put some kind of dampener in that for Data that can only be unlocked with the emotion chip. Once Data actually gets his emotions unlocked they overwhelm him and he turns into a homicidal maniac (Descent), or he's almost completely beholden to his fear and disgust (Generations), or he's almost completely dominated by his lust (First Contact)

But, considering the androids were supposed to have been modelled on Soong, and it's hinted that the Soongs are just serial clones of each other since at least the 2020s, you've got to wonder just what the fuck is wrong in the Soong genome and brain and whether or not that got exaggerated by centuries of tinkering with the genes.
 
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