Mega Rad Gun Thread

[WhoBusTank69]

Unrelated to the sig stuff, but I've been doing some research lately, and it amuses me greatly how nearly every single AR15 alternative-derivative is just the BRN 180 but worse.

Since the AR-18 was introduced to the international market to lukewarm reception due to it being "cheap" in both construction and cost, it has been ripped off by European countries. It only stands to reason that it continues.

 

[Gurney Halleck]

Someone should try doing that screw + shake awake test with a P365, that should definitively answer how badly Sig fucked up there.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

The P365 doesn't share any parts nor even principle of operation with the P320. It borders on inconceivable that it would be affected by the same test.

40 cal, which is a bit much for a new shooter. Both are excellent choices though!

Nah, the problem with .40 is the price.

So yeah, gun manufacturers are used to idiots claiming "it just went off" - and mass hysteria is a real thing. If Sig couldn't find an issue, then that would explain their behavior.

NDs people try to write off as the gun's problem do happen all of the time, so I agree the initial response is natural, but there's no way Sig doesn't know the issue here. They just can't risk their military contracts being litigated or maybe even cancelled so they have to maintain innocence and ignorance up until the point of legal force.

Can someone better at digging up info take a look?

Jonathan David Blecher at least seems to be a legit NY attorney.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-blecher-797084255

https://www.martindale.com/attorney/jonathan-david-blecher-301685268/

https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/10153-ny-jonathan-blecher-5415526.html

https://opengovny.com/attorney/6213888

I will say that the compression ignition idea mentioned earlier in the thread is iffy it would be mechanically complex to compress air with a diesel-like compression ratio and then hold up to over 60ksi. You'd have to have locking lugs on the piston that does the initial charge compression. Also, unless there's an internal air reservoir, this setup would be quite vulnerable to complete stoppage in wet weather.

Metering and delivering powder, chambering a bullet, igniting the powder mechanically, clearing the chamber, and keeping all of it cool enough sustain automatic fire would be kraut space magic levels of complexity.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Is anyone familiar what the legal process is for inheriting NFA items after a death? I had a death in the family who didn't have a will or anything and I'd like to take possession of his silencers and SBR.

 

[DocAwe]

Unrelated to the sig stuff, but I've been doing some research lately, and it amuses me greatly how nearly every single AR15 alternative-derivative is just the BRN 180 but worse.
Also AKs get style points but no utility points in comparison

IMO With rare exceptions if it's not an AR15 or an AK it's basically an AR-18.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

P320s have been banned from the idpa

 

[Polock]

Is anyone familiar what the legal process is for inheriting NFA items after a death? I had a death in the family who didn't have a will or anything and I'd like to take possession of his silencers and SBR.

An NFA trust would have been the simplest way - iirc you just take possession of them. I'm assuming that's not the case.

It's somewhat similar to the normal inheritance process - but the estate executor has to handle the transfer since you legally can't take possession of the NFA items until after you complete the ATF Form 5 process.

 

[Club Sandwich]

Is anyone familiar what the legal process is for inheriting NFA items after a death? I had a death in the family who didn't have a will or anything and I'd like to take possession of his silencers and SBR.

they are transferred on the ATF form 5. however your state may have individual laws that apply. consult a lawyer familiar with firearms laws in your jurisdiction and with estate planning. they are functionally treated as a "new transfer" from the decedent to you, but you must typically be directly related (father to son, grandmother to granddaughter, that sort of thing) and without a will or disposition that spells it out, you may be required to go through a more standard form 4 from the estate rather than form 5.

 

[Among Us Gaming]

IMO With rare exceptions if it's not an AR15 or an AK it's basically an AR-18.

True, but I mean with whats available the Jakl and FM are both kinda crap. AKs are style guns, and most bullpup options aren't that good for how much they cost.
The BRN 180, while GODAWFUL expensive (I'm not paying $1200 for just an upper), works more or less as well as an AR but with the added benefit of an AR18 style upper.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Branca weighs in. I'm honestly surprised it took him this long.

---

Two choice comments lol

 

[Romulus augustulus]

It's very, very difficult to win a gun case, but actual product defects are another thing. It's not going to kill them. The reputational damage and potentially losing government contracts is going to hurt them a lot more and might thoroughly tarnish the brand.

the fact that the Remington 700 was unsafe and had killed people isn't what killed Remington in the end. it was the coverup and the refusal to repair that put them into bankruptcy. They did a coverup because they couldn't afford to do a recall and fix all the rifles.

 

[Muskie]

It's very, very difficult to win a gun case, but actual product defects are another thing. It's not going to kill them. The reputational damage and potentially losing government contracts is going to hurt them a lot more and might thoroughly tarnish the brand.

Sig was likely was aware of the safety problems to some extent if not from the beginning then soon after one of the first incidents. Here they chose to gamble, they probably figured that the problem is likely uncommon enough that they can settle a couple lawsuits as they come and quietly tighten qc without saying anything. I think they misjudged the number of effected guns and the public's reaction to their explanation. A combination of the drop issues, their millitary contract, and the current ownership of Sig meant there was a giant ready made group of haters ready to blast the 320 at the first sign of problems. A massive recall of thier flagship product would be very bad but might not have sunk the ship if they got ahead of it early enough. Now they have ruined any goodwill they might have had left and completely eliminated consumer trust along with pissing off the government. This might well be the beginning of the end. Never trust Indians to do anything but eat shit.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

I just clicked a new article about the P320 procurement test history vs the previous Baretta/Sig competition decades ago and there's a one-hour old comment that needs to be preserved and shared far/wide:

[Saco was SIG-Germany's importer during the 92F/P226 competition way back then]

1 hour ago

Mr. Ortiz, great article at how politics mess up sound technical evaluations for personal Defense weapons that protect our military.

As the XM9 Program Manager for Saco Defense & Sig Sauer back in 1980s, I am intimately familiar with how Beretta maneuvered the Army contract for the 92F. President Reagan and Casper Weinberger were involved in deep negotiations with the Italian PM in 1983-1984 to place US ballistic missile sites into Italy as part of the Cold War Defense strategy.

The initial XM9 Army contract award formula was presented to all of the 9MM weapon bidders, which was highly leveraged on the price of the weapon itself. Jane's Defense Weekly "sources" announced the P226 as the initial winner.

Out of nowhere, the Army Defense Command announced a "Best & Final" bid which they claimed was predicated on changing anticipated orders for spare parts. Records provided to the Defense Arms Appropriation Committee in Congress during Saco's appeal, uncovered insinuations from the Italian Prime Minister for a Quid-Pro-Quo on the missile site discussion, where the XM9 pistol contract was mentioned. Despite the P226 Best & Final weapon price still being lower than the 92F, the numbers tilted to Beretta due to the unexpected massive number of spare magazines that were announced.

A month after Beretta was awarded the M9 contract, Italy approved placement of the US missile site. Sig Sauer leadership swore they would not be beat on pistol pricing the next go around.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/tactical/why-the-army-didnt-finish-testing-the-sig-sauer-p320/

https://archive.is/nSXuy

It shouldn't be hard to track that guy down. Minutes probably.

 

[BikeLock]

I just clicked a new article about the P320 procurement test history vs the previous Baretta/Sig competition decades ago and there's a one-hour old comment that needs to be preserved and shared far/wide:

[Saco was SIG-Germany's importer during the 92F/P226 competition way back then]

https://www.wearethemighty.com/tactical/why-the-army-didnt-finish-testing-the-sig-sauer-p320/ https://archive.is/nSXuy
It shouldn't be hard to track that guy down. Minutes probably.

This has been known for years. Beretta got the contract because we needed a Cold War base in Italy, and that was that.

However, unlike with the XM17 trials, both the Beretta 92F AND the P226 passed the XM9 trials, which were FAR more extensive than the XM17. The P320 was basically built to the exact requirements of whatever general they bribed (Milley, probably), and testing was just a formality that it only barely passed, every other pistol did better.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

This has been known for years. Beretta got the contract because we needed a Cold War base in Italy, and that was that.

However, unlike with the XM17 trials, both the Beretta 92F AND the P226 passed the XM9 trials, which were FAR more extensive than the XM17. The P320 was basically built to the exact requirements of whatever general they bribed (Milley, probably), and testing was just a formality that it only barely passed, every other pistol did better.

No bribes are necessary when you're given a mandate to keep costs low and one is 37% or whatever cheaper than the other. I'm surprised they didn't call it earlier.

That comment above is important IMO because although we knew there was shadiness involved at least I didn't know exactly how they rigged it: adding enough cheap mags to the order to get the 92F's total cost below SIG's on paper. Weren't those mags a disaster too, damaging Baretta's reputation even though they were from a 3rd-party?

 

[DocAwe]

If I recall the army wanted powder coated mags and Beretta told them that was a bad idea especially in a sandy environment.
Army insisted.
Well low and behold all kinds of shit embedded itself in those PC mags and it was a disaster.
The next batch has a slick non porous coating and everything was cool again.

 

[BikeLock]

No bribes are necessary when you're given a mandate to keep costs low and one is 37% or whatever cheaper than the other. I'm surprised they didn't call it earlier.

That comment above is important IMO because although we knew there was shadiness involved at least I didn't know exactly how they rigged it: adding enough cheap mags to the order to get the 92F's total cost below SIG's on paper. Weren't those mags a disaster too, damaging Baretta's reputation even though they were from a 3rd-party?

Yeah, its widely known that the parkerized Checkmate magazines are a problem, as being parkerized they lack enough lubricity to work when they get dirty, there's a reason why every other doublestack mag in existence is polished blue or stainless, lmao. The later PVD coated magazines were better, but factory magazines are best of course.

If you really felt like it, you could get a handful of the old parkerized mags and refinish them in a slicker coating, but 92 mags are cheap and easy enough to find that you really don't have to do that.

 

[Muskie]

 

[Foley]

Interesting thread

https://x.com/LieutenantRusty/status/1949905386385133920

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

View attachment 7718718

LOL I shot probably 100,000 rounds without an unintentional discharge. And then I had one.