UN El Salvador approves indefinite presidential reelection and extends terms to 6 years - How dare he solve the crime problem

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SAN SALVADOR, El Salvador (AP) — The party of El Salvador President Nayib Bukele approved constitutional changes in the country’s Legislative Assembly on Thursday that will allow indefinite presidential reelection and extend presidential terms to six years.

Lawmaker Ana Figueroa from the New Ideas party had proposed the changes to five articles of the constitution. The proposal also included eliminating the second round of the election where the two top vote-getters from the first round face off.

New Ideas and its allies in the Legislative Assembly quickly approved the proposals with the supermajority they hold. The vote passed with 57 in favor and three opposed.

Bukele overwhelmingly won reelection last year despite a constitutional ban, after Supreme Court justices selected by his party ruled in 2021 to allow reelection to a second five-year term.

Observers have worried that Bukele had a plan to consolidate power since at least 2021, when a newly elected Congress with a strong governing party majority voted to remove the magistrates of the constitutional chamber of the Supreme Court. Those justices had been seen as the last check on the popular president.

Since then, Bukele has only grown more popular. The Biden administration’s initial expressions of concern gave way to quiet acceptance as Bukele announced his run for reelection. With the return of U.S. President Donald Trump to the White House in January, Bukele had a new powerful ally and quickly offered Trump help by taking more than 200 deportees from other countries into a newly built prison for gang members.

Figueroa argued Thursday that federal lawmakers and mayors can already seek reelection as many times as they want.

“All of them have had the possibility of reelection through popular vote, the only exception until now has been the presidency,” Figueroa said.

She also proposed that Bukele’s current term, scheduled to end June 1, 2029, instead finish June 1, 2027, to put presidential and congressional elections on the same schedule. It would also allow Bukele to seek reelection to a longer term two years earlier.

Marcela Villatoro of the Nationalist Republican Alliance (Arena), one of three votes against the proposals, told her fellow lawmakers that “Democracy in El Salvador has died!”

“You don’t realize what indefinite reelection brings: It brings an accumulation of power and weakens democracy ... there’s corruption and clientelism because nepotism grows and halts democracy and political participation,” she said.

Suecy Callejas, the assembly’s vice president, said that “power has returned to the only place that it truly belongs ... to the Salvadoran people.”

Bukele did not immediately comment.

Bukele, who once dubbed himself “the world’s coolest dictator,” is highly popular, largely because of his heavy-handed fight against the country’s powerful street gangs.

Voters have been willing to overlook evidence that his administration like others before it had negotiated with the gangs, before seeking a state of emergency that suspended some constitutional rights and allowed authorities to arrest and jail tens of thousands of people.

His success with security and politically has inspired imitators in the region who seek to replicate his style.

Most recently, Bukele’s government has faced international criticism for the arrests of high-profile lawyers who have been outspoken critics of his administration. One of the country’s most prominent human rights group announced in July it was moving its operations out of El Salvador for the safety of its people, accusing the government of a “wave of repression.”

https://apnews.com/article/el-salvador-nayib-bukele-reelection-f9efd1a08d3c9de2f886f7b911b9417d (Archive)
 
Even with democracy, we still get rampant authoritarian bullshit, or have you missed the past 15 years?

Thats what Im saying, Im sure people are "comfortable" with democracy since it gives them an illusion of actually mattering in the directions of power but ultimately people want results and if that requires them to let go of this democratic dream nonsense, its, as I said, a small price to pay.

People much prefer things solved than the fantasy that their votes do anything.
 
As I grow older I realize that having one guy to seethe at and eventually hang is better than the fetid system we're forced to deal with where the uniparty gives you an artificial societal release valve in the form of getting to pick a new head sprouting from the same Hydra every few years.
I agree with you but consider this a wholly separate and different issue/problem. One step at a time and all that.
 
but ultimately people want results and if that requires them to let go of this democratic dream nonsense, its, as I said, a small price to pay.
The question is, how do you check Bukele’s power when he fucks up? He has the legislature and the judiciary on his side, not to mention the military and police.

He’s not going to allow any opposition to gain power or influence. They will be silenced. We have to rely on Bukele recognizing the need to relinquish power, which is unlikely given his belief that he is a benevolent dictator.

Now he is actually doing good things for the people. El Salvador benefits from his current leadership. But we know the rigidity that comes in these authoritarian systems; the corruption that follows over decades of the same system. Are we getting a decade of prosperity for a half a century of authoritarian suffering?
 
Now he is actually doing good things for the people. El Salvador benefits from his current leadership. But we know the rigidity that comes in these authoritarian systems; the corruption that follows over decades of the same system. Are we getting a decade of prosperity for a half a century of authoritarian suffering?
This is how the story always goes:

Society prospers
Elites fall into decadence
Society declines
Counterelite party uses the weakness to seize power
Society turns into complete shithole
 
You get accelerationism and faster collapse because the counterparty are naturally extremists, since that's what they ran on.
Nah dude, Bukele has everything under control. There will never be a horrible collapse into worse conditions than before his rise at all because people were complacent and relaxed and didn’t worry about anything while the King handled everything! When has that ever happened?
 
"Muh Democracy" kvetching from the ivory tower has never mattered to the working class joes forced to deal with shitty living conditions. My 40 years on this earth have shown me that democracy as a concept and as a "virtue" is an utter joke. I hope someday we can let go of the pretense that it matters.

I would personally be fine ruled by an authoritarian despot, provided I had a good life and the trains metaphorically ran on time. The ability to pretend to choose the ruler that bends me over and fucks my ass doesn't matter to me at all.
 
This is how the story always goes:

Society prospers
Elites fall into decadence
Society declines
Counterelite party uses the weakness to seize power
Society turns into complete shithole
No, the counterelite often do fairly well for a time, before becoming dissolute and being replaced themselves.

There’s actually a word for this: anacyclosis. It’s such a well known phenomenon, the great historians and philosophers of Classical Antiquity talked at length about it.

I think it’s pretty uncontroversial that a virtuous monarch is preferable to a degenerate senate, which is why Rome lasted nearly as long as a monarchy as it did a republic.
 
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What’s the alternative? It’s not great to install the dictator for life button, no, but where el Salvador was was beyond the Pale. It was nightmare fuel. You can’t have any kind of law and order like that, you can with old fashioned Italian mafia where they largely have some kind of warped honor code that leaves civvies be, but not that.
There’s a point where the horror is so extreme that you need extreme measures. You can’t sort out that kind of stuff without tough measures. It’s not democratic and it’s not ideal but the alternative is worse.
Benign (truly benign) dictatorship with a tie to the land whether it’s monarchy or not is probably a better way of ruling.
 
It's only real democracy if it agrees with them. Same way Trump is a threat to democracy despite being democratically elected and winning the popular vote
Okay, I realize this guy has a lot of fans on here, but this comparison doesn't work. Trump didn't have his allies in congress abolish presidential term limits, and if he did that would be something I would consider to be a serious problem. All those of us who are skeptical of this guy are saying is that this is not a good sign for El Salvador's future.

I get that it's great to see all the violent street gangs imprisoned, but once he (or his successor) starts jailing anyone (not just leftoids, guys,) who opposes him, people will remember why certain safeguards were in place to begin with. The only problem is that by that point, it may well be too late.

I'm kinda disturbed that there are people on here who are so eager to see the end of democracy, republicanism, whatever you want to call it, benign (hi, @Otterly) dictators only work out for so long, and then you get the malevolent kind and voting your way out is no longer an option.
 
He's one of the most popular elected leaders in the world, so it's doing the will of their people to extend his ability to run for president.

Nice try, moron. His approval rating is close to 90 percent. Hold a vote every month for years and he'll win every time.
In cultures with a weak civic culture and limited human capital, it can make sense to keep the good you get because a good leader can come around only once in a hundred years or so.
 
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What’s the alternative? It’s not great to install the dictator for life button, no, but where el Salvador was was beyond the Pale. It was nightmare fuel. You can’t have any kind of law and order like that, you can with old fashioned Italian mafia where they largely have some kind of warped honor code that leaves civvies be, but not that.
There’s a point where the horror is so extreme that you need extreme measures. You can’t sort out that kind of stuff without tough measures. It’s not democratic and it’s not ideal but the alternative is worse.
Benign (truly benign) dictatorship with a tie to the land whether it’s monarchy or not is probably a better way of ruling.
You’re right, El Salvador was a shithole without any alternatives but to choose a strongman. But now that they have some semblance of stability, what are they doing to ensure that stability continues? Because when you go from one extreme to another, you’re just going to end up with enough momentum to send you right back where you started.

What is the common citizen doing to keep the good times going? Or are they just relying on Bukele to always have their back? I think we know the answer to that.
 
Okay, I realize this guy has a lot of fans on here, but this comparison doesn't work. Trump didn't have his allies in congress abolish presidential term limits, and if he did that would be something I would consider to be a serious problem. All those of us who are skeptical of this guy are saying is that this is not a good sign for El Salvador's future.

I get that it's great to see all the violent street gangs imprisoned, but once he (or his successor) starts jailing anyone (not just leftoids, guys,) who opposes him, people will remember why certain safeguards were in place to begin with. The only problem is that by that point, it may well be too late.

I'm kinda disturbed that there are people on here who are so eager to see the end of democracy, republicanism, whatever you want to call it, benign (hi, @Otterly) dictators only work out for so long, and then you get the malevolent kind and voting your way out is no longer an option.
Well voting for democracy to stop being a piece of shit clearly isn’t working, so what else is left besides to replace it? the reason this occurs is that in order to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions, elected officials outsource the dirty work to unelected officials, and this is what has caused the demise of Democracy™️ - all the real power of the government has been vested in faceless bureaucrats who will remain in power regardless of who wins elections. Nobody voted for Anthony Fauci. The only way to get rid of them is to get rid of the system entirely.

Besides, The consent of the governed is a collective concept, and when a people no longer consents to be governed, a change in management usually occurs rather quickly. If El Salvador gets sick of Bukele, you’ll just see assassination attempts until one works, or a military coup.
 
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Most recently, Bukele’s government has faced international criticism for the arrests of high-profile lawyers who have been outspoken critics of his administration. One of the country’s most prominent human rights group announced in July it was moving its operations out of El Salvador for the safety of its people, accusing the government of a “wave of repression.”
Due process is extremely important to a functional society, but these “human rights” shills pervert it to mean indefinitely giving known criminals the benefit of the doubt. Just look at the board of directors for the group they referenced, Cristosal. A bunch of well-off Americans who probably have limited daily interaction with any non-whites, let alone the kind of people getting rounded up in El Salvador. They think that, just because being nice and playing nice works where they live, that being nice and playing nice should work everywhere. You cannot nice El Salvador out of its criminal problem and Bukele and the people who deal with this everyday know this. You have to be decisive and aggressive because that is the language that reaches these kinds of criminals.
 
You’re right, El Salvador was a shithole without any alternatives but to choose a strongman. But now that they have some semblance of stability, what are they doing to ensure that stability continues? Because when you go from one extreme to another, you’re just going to end up with enough momentum to send you right back where you started.

What is the common citizen doing to keep the good times going? Or are they just relying on Bukele to always have their back? I think we know the answer to that.
I said when these crackdowns first started that the people of El Salvador would have been better off in the long-term raising their own civil militias and going after the gangs directly rather than relying on state power to do it for them. I fear that in the coming years/decades we will see the negative consequences of relying on strong men to do things for you play out in El Salvador.
 
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"that will allow indefinite presidential reelection and extend presidential terms to six years."
I understand why this guy is popular, El-Salvador had a massive drug and gang problem, but that doesn't make this a good idea. Imagine what will happen the next time some insane leftist gets in.
Well if bukele has any sense, he'll start rounding then up next

They're as much as enemy of the common people as the criminals were
 
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Well voting for democracy to stop being a piece of shit clearly isn’t working, so what else is left besides to replace it?
That's not actually clear. We just had an election in this country where the system worked and gave the people the leader that they wanted.
the reason this occurs is that in order to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions, elected officials outsource the dirty work to unelected officials, and this is what has caused the demise of Democracy™️ - all the real power of the government has been vested in faceless bureaucrats who will remain in power regardless of who wins elections.
Yes, this is a problem, but replacing them with an autocrat and his flunkies is not a good solution to that problem.
The only way to get rid of them is to get rid of the system entirely.
Wrong. You vote the bums out, replace them with people who are responsible and have spines, and you fire the faceless bureaucrats.
Besides, The consent of the governed is a collective concept, and when a people no longer consents to be governed, a change in management usually occurs rather quickly. If El Salvador gets sick of Bukele, you’ll just see assassination attempts until one works, or a military coup.
Yeah, you see, the problem with that approach is that you're not guaranteed to get a better, more representative government after the assassination and/or coup is over. We got lucky with our revolution over here, we had good leaders who understood the virtues and vices of human beings and they created a system of government that takes those virtues and vices into account.
 
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