Community Munchausen's by Internet (Malingerers, Munchies, Spoonies, etc) - Feigning Illnesses for Attention

[Meowthkip]

Thanks so much for posting the link to the documentary about Dee Dee and Gypsy. That was really interesting. I think when she first got apprehended she was in manipulation mode but slowly managed to overcome that and be more honest with herself and others. I think that 30 years for her autistic boyfriend is a little steep if he really is mentally 16/17. Maybe 20, since he actually did the deed but there should be some mitigation. Might be a controversial opinion. I'd be very surprised if his defense team didn't argue for leniency based on his tism.

Considering that MBP kids are so much more likely to get killed by their parents than the other way around, Gypsy comes across more like a success story. And that's kind of fucked up.

 

[cuddle striker]

I think it's more that people slip through the cracks because they're not potentially about to die and the ER is understaffed/over worked in general. Even people that are called into the back can, and do, wait hours to receive treatment.

this- but also we know pain isn't usually constant. people who are in real pain may do other things here and there, but their cause of pain is usually pretty obvious. it's more about self-serving attention seeking behavior than anything else.

and they leave people alone if they're using their phone for other stuff, mostly. it's just the photography that gets the phone taken.

 

[Morose_Obesity]

I suffer from xyz power level things but never tell anybody but my shrink, too busy being fucked up to seek asspats about it. People do not need to know the shit I've been through. I do spend too much on liquor, but that's beside the point.

 

[Meowthkip]

I suffer from xyz power level things but never tell anybody but my shrink, too busy being fucked up to seek asspats about it. People do not need to know the shit I've been through. I do spend too much on liquor, but that's beside the point.

 

[MistressCaridad]

Question about ER stuff, though. Taking selfies in the ER is kind of a douchey move, but what about patients doing other things to kill time when waiting?

I worked in an ER and also in a skilled care facility and it was quite common to see patients who had illnesses or injuries that you damn well knew were shitty and painful doing things to distract themselves from the pain.. it could look like they weren't all that bad, I guess, and I'm sure that they could be shuffled aside by some overworked medical professional when attempting to triage waiting patients. I think that the thing I and the nurses I worked under (I worked under some damn good nurses in the ER) found most suspicious were the ones who came in with unspecified ailments rating their pain level as a 10, but yet their vitals (blood pressure/pulse/respiration) were all fairly normal and not off the charts like someone with a 10 pain level should be.

Spoiler: Gross maybe so don't click if you're squeamish

as an example, in the skilled care facility we had a retired construction worker in the postoperative wing that had a huge carcinoma on his cheek that made it necessary for the entire left side of his face to be removed and rebuilt, as well as two more on his shoulder that needed some grafting. You know that poor guy had a shitload of pain after all those surgeries... and yet through all that, the highest pain level he ever gave was a 6... he read, played games on his phone, talked to the guy across the hall, went for short walks to the activity room on his better days, etc. to actively forget the pain he was in. 10 for these attention seeking clowns, my ass.

Sorry for my sperging, having dealt with actual suffering people I feel strongly about this.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I worked in an ER and also in a skilled care facility and it was quite common to see patients who had illnesses or injuries that you damn well knew were shitty and painful doing things to distract themselves from the pain.. it could look like they weren't all that bad, I guess, and I'm sure that they could be shuffled aside by some overworked medical professional when attempting to triage waiting patients. I think that the thing I and the nurses I worked under (I worked under some damn good nurses in the ER) found most suspicious were the ones who came in with unspecified ailments rating their pain level as a 10, but yet their vitals (blood pressure/pulse/respiration) were all fairly normal and not off the charts like someone with a 10 pain level should be.

Spoiler: Gross maybe so don't click if you're squeamish

as an example, in the skilled care facility we had a retired construction worker in the postoperative wing that had a huge carcinoma on his cheek that made it necessary for the entire left side of his face to be removed and rebuilt, as well as two more on his shoulder that needed some grafting. You know that poor guy had a shitload of pain after all those surgeries... and yet through all that, the highest pain level he ever gave was a 6... he read, played games on his phone, talked to the guy across the hall, went for short walks to the activity room on his better days, etc. to actively forget the pain he was in. 10 for these attention seeking clowns, my ass.

Sorry for my sperging, having dealt with actual suffering people I feel strongly about this.

Yeah, vital signs seem to be a big indicator of intense pain, probably far more reliable for doctors than self reporting by patients who they can't instantly assess as legit, drug seekers or munchies.

:powerlevel:

Spoiler

I mentioned my husband was in the ER for kidney stones a couple days ago. I noticed the ER doc put in the order for pain meds for him immediately after a 30 sec convo and checking his vitals - elevated blood pressure, heart rate, dialated pupils, bathed in sweat, etc.. - well before it was confirmed to be kidney stones via CAT scan. His orders were for pain meds and a cat scan, in that order.

I actually took the time to read the in-depth descriptions of the pain levels after our hospital visit. My husband rated his pain a 9 (previous terrible injuries he got he rated a 6). He commented if the pain got worse he would pass out. A pain level of 10 should be someone in so much pain they are bedridden, delirious, etc.. A 9 perfectly described him that night, moaning uncontrollably, not really being rational in conversation and he was vomiting every 20 minutes or so.

 

[GuestGhost]

Devil's Advocate could argue that some of them truly have a mental health issue and I'm sure some do, but come on, it's not prevalent enough for ALL of them. I agree with some of the others here, if you're truly raising awareness, that's one thing. For example, a young person going through skin cancer due to tanning beds and documenting what can happen if you knowingly fry your skin (chemo, radiation, surgeries, tubes and wires). That is a good use of social media, somebody might actually learn something. Who really "wants" to be chronically ill? Is there some kind of wildly attractive appeal that I'm missing? Because hospitals, doctors, tests and special labels sound more like a living nightmare than a super duper fun time. It's different than a little kid wanting a cast or braces just because their best friend or classmate has one going on. Guess some of them just never grow out of that behavior...

Not to power level, I've had my fair share of negative health situations, nobody would know it unless I told them. I had knee surgery last year and that was clearly all out on display and the short time I took the pain meds sucked so much. The amount of questions "oh my god what happened?" were draining and I can't understand "wanting" that life and attention all the time. Nobody is special for having bad things happen in any capacity because EVERYBODY has bad things happen to them. It's the good shit you do in life that will make you into "somebody" regardless of whatever you have going on.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

"wanting" that life and attention all the time. Nobody is special for having bad things happen in any capacity because EVERYBODY has bad things happen to them. It's the good shit you do in life that will make you into "somebody" regardless of whatever you have going on.

This is the heart of the matter. It's a lot more difficult to "do things" or achieve good things to be somebody or get attention for it. Faking sicknesses make Munchies feel important and gets them attention. They don't have anything in life going on that merits positive attention, so going for the easy sympathy/pity attention is the easiest option for them. I've never encountered a munchie who was successful in any way or had positive things going on in their life.

 

[cuddle striker]

Devil's Advocate could argue that some of them truly have a mental health issue and I'm sure some do, but come on, it's not prevalent enough for ALL of them. I agree with some of the others here, if you're truly raising awareness, that's one thing. For example, a young person going through skin cancer due to tanning beds and documenting what can happen if you knowingly fry your skin (chemo, radiation, surgeries, tubes and wires). That is a good use of social media, somebody might actually learn something. Who really "wants" to be chronically ill? Is there some kind of wildly attractive appeal that I'm missing? Because hospitals, doctors, tests and special labels sound more like a living nightmare than a super duper fun time. It's different than a little kid wanting a cast or braces just because their best friend or classmate has one going on. Guess some of them just never grow out of that behavior...

Not to power level, I've had my fair share of negative health situations, nobody would know it unless I told them. I had knee surgery last year and that was clearly all out on display and the short time I took the pain meds sucked so much. The amount of questions "oh my god what happened?" were draining and I can't understand "wanting" that life and attention all the time. Nobody is special for having bad things happen in any capacity because EVERYBODY has bad things happen to them. It's the good shit you do in life that will make you into "somebody" regardless of whatever you have going on.

there's a certain level at which awareness raising isn't needed.

cancer patients in active treatment? go ahead, take photos, document your journey, your battle. nobody is going to get in your way.

broken femur? yeah, ask your friend to get a picture. you'll hopefully never see a bone that big sticking out of your body again.

fibromyalgia? what is there to photograph? go home and write a journal. it's not life-threatening, just disabling and chronic. diabetes? sure, if you're getting feet amputated and want to warn others to watch their blood sugar... but beyond that, why?

an IV because you're dehydrated? no. undiagnosable things that don't affect your actual bodily functions, and your pain level is "9 every day, all day"? no no no. headaches? a cluster headache, you don't want to get a photo. you want to die.

photos that have no purpose beyond showing the person in the hospital are not allowed. procedures, maybe- serious injuries, terminal illness, or surgeries, yes, usually with the doctor and staff not in the photo.

Munchies seek attention. It's the red flag. Everything else begins there.

 

[GuestGhost]

there's a certain level at which awareness raising isn't needed.
an IV because you're dehydrated? no. undiagnosable things that don't affect your actual bodily functions, and your pain level is "9 every day, all day"? no no no. headaches? a cluster headache, you don't want to get a photo. you want to die.

photos that have no purpose beyond showing the person in the hospital are not allowed. procedures, maybe- serious injuries, terminal illness, or surgeries, yes, usually with the doctor and staff not in the photo.

Mmm true, I do have a couple pics of my knee after I got home for the novelty of how swollen it was and how massive the freakin brace was, it was funny. Then again in extreme sports, everybody has at least one of those photos of post surgery or some broken bone or set of stitches. I'd be utterly embarrassed if I (or my friends) took a photo of something like an IV or a hospital band, that's just stupid. Mama didn't raise a fool, I'm catching all sorts of second hand embarrassment.

 

[MistressCaridad]

@MirnaMinkoff oh yes, kidney stones are their own special level of hell so a 9 is believable, for sure.

I was going to quote @resonancer but my phone took a shit so I'll just refer to the post. Yeah, the fibro/migraine/IV photos are just dumb. There was an Instagram account referenced earlier in the thread that had the girl posting pictures of her meds, all her home medical equipment and all this shit along with a long list of all the illnesses she supposedly had and I just... why... there was NOTHING else on her account. (She also had an account for her service dog... attention seeking much?)

 

[Tiny Clanger]

Bollocks, can't edit. Apologies for double-bubble.

I forgot a q I have for the medical folks or anyone who knows one of these nuts fer realz.

How do the munchies/hypos relate to their families? Everyone i know with any form of serious illness minimizes it as much as possible so as not to distress.

Nobody wants to distress their family....or so I thought. But I have a young friend whose mother is the worst hypo I've ever known, and the stress she lays on her kids is unbelievable. Is that normal (well, its NOT normal, but normal for these nuts!) or is she a special sort of special? Is it about professional attention or just any attention, or does it differ case to case? Because it seems to me that, besides anything else, if you let your family stress to hell, that's some level of narcissism. Anyone know if there are any links to this and something like NPD?

 

[Wallace]

Nobody wants to distress their family....or so I thought. But I have a young friend whose mother is the worst hypo I've ever known, and the stress she lays on her kids is unbelievable. Is that normal (well, its NOT normal, but normal for these nuts!) or is she a special sort of special? Is it about professional attention or just any attention, or does it differ case to case? Because it seems to me that, besides anything else, if you let your family stress to hell, that's some level of narcissism. Anyone know if there are any links to this and something like NPD?

Not just narcissism, but BPD too.

 

[MistressCaridad]

Hypos/munchies are all about the bad, ALL the time, never fluctuating, never self-limiting. It's just not an accurate representation of how we experience long-term, serious pain. And nobody is ever worse than a munchie, whereas there is a distinct difference between acute and chronic pain.

This is what I was trying to get across, thank you! English isn't my first language so sometimes I don't always convey my meanings well. With munchies they're ALWAYS a 10, day in and day out as opposed to people with true chronic pain whose numbers fluctuate.

The vital signs thing has always puzzled me, but I guess they must know ways to mimic some of them? I look completely normal even when it's blaring, but there are giveaways - pouring with cold, clammy sweat, BP blows up etc etc. But even that changes as your body adapts; I now register only slightly elevated even in extremis, but the giveaway is the lightest touch and everything goes crazy. Pain is infinitely more complicated than any lay understanding (snip)

Yeah, it's relative. But when you get someone complaining that their pain level is a 10 and their BP is 120/70 with a pulse of 70 (and this is the third time they've been in during a span of two months) you might raise an eyebrow.

It must be intensely frustrating for hospital staff because it's almost intuitive - they know who is swinging the lead and when, but not only do they have to treat everything as real, but how do you even explain something you know by what we call intuition?

This is indeed the most frustrating part. Even one munchie in the ER is taking up space that a legitimately ill or injured patient needs but could have to wait on because the munchie wants asspats and sympathy for their dire condition, but yet you can't just withhold treatment just because you THINK they're putting you on. It's a dilemma.
Thank you for exploring this further, it helped me clarify my thoughts!

 

[Tiny Clanger]

This is what I was trying to get across, thank you! English isn't my first language so sometimes I don't always convey my meanings well. With munchies they're ALWAYS a 10, day in and day out as opposed to people with true chronic pain whose numbers fluctuate.

Your English is perfect (you should see me try to gibber my way through any foreign language. It's just pitiful!) I'm just saying it from a different perspective.

Everyone I know working in the medical field hates these people. And that, coming from professionals who have seen everything and are about as non-judgemental a bunch of people as you'll ever meet, says a lot. I've had nothing but kindness from everyone involved in every medical encounter.....but I fervently wish not to see them again! I know how I'd feel if my training, my experience, my professionalism and my emotions were used by someone so they got to feel special. And, if only a fraction of what I've heard is true, they treat staff like crap - they want the department Consultant and they want him/her NOW. It's a disgusting negation of everyone else in the medical chain, all of whom are equally important and deserve basic decency and respect. It really winds me up - as you can probably tell from this slew of ranty posts, ahem.

I honestly would get out the Picolax (laxative known as "dynamite") give 'em a triple dose, a MASSIVE enema just for fun....then ensure their bed was furthest from the loo. And just wait for the fun to start, heh heh heh...

 

[cuddle striker]

They treat medical staff like servants, their families/support people like absolute shit, and demand focused attention.

Withholding emotional attention from a patient is a good way to out this behavior. If a clinician seems cold and direct, they've either dealt with a munchie recently, or they think you may be one.

Remember, even these scum can get actually sick. I've seen the total joy and excitement in the eyes of a munchie who was just diagnosed with liver cancer (it was as if they'd just won the lottery). So we have to treat them- but they get nothing extra from us. The sympathy and consideration and attention we spend freely on the unhappily ill, we do not extend to people with Munchausen's, as it encourages them to purposely worsen their illness or symptoms. Any extra kindness can trigger them to infect wounds, take chemicals or medication they shouldn't (like the girl eating the detergent), or other kinds of medical self-harm. You can't be nice to them at all, because it actually makes their prognosis worse. They're opposite land patients.

 

[repentance]

@MirnaMinkoff oh yes, kidney stones are their own special level of hell so a 9 is believable, for sure.

I was going to quote @resonancer but my phone took a shit so I'll just refer to the post. Yeah, the fibro/migraine/IV photos are just dumb. There was an Instagram account referenced earlier in the thread that had the girl posting pictures of her meds, all her home medical equipment and all this shit along with a long list of all the illnesses she supposedly had and I just... why... there was NOTHING else on her account. (She also had an account for her service dog... attention seeking much?)

You just made me realise something. The person I know who has legit fibro never posts photos of her illness. She only posts photos of the things she manages to accomplish despite being in pain and constantly exhausted. I've never seen a photo of her in her wheelchair, even though she uses it a lot in daily life. She rarely mentions any of her symptoms, and if she does it's in passing (you know when she's having a particularly bad run of insomnia by the timestamps of when she's been online). After the first couple of years of being frustrated at not being able to work in either of the fields for which she's qualified, she turned a hobby into an income stream and freely admits that she did it to save her sanity and feel useful rather than for the money.

They treat medical staff like servants, their families/support people like absolute shit, and demand focused attention.

This actually drives me nuts. Usually the caregivers of people with chronic illness have become very good at meeting their basic medical needs and will do so even in hospital when they don't really need to. They often develop a very good sense of when something is "off", and the demanding family members of attention whores just undermine the willingness of medical staff to listen to the caregivers who are just damn good advocates with legitimate cause for concern.

Doctors and nurses are not handmaidens. Make the bed of your snowflake yourself. Go get them more ice or a drink or whatever yourself. Help them shower yourself. If the staff have shown you how to do something for your snowflake, then practise doing it while they're still in hospital so you know how to do it properly by the time they leave.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

They treat medical staff like servants, their families/support people like absolute shit, and demand focused attention.

Withholding emotional attention from a patient is a good way to out this behavior. If a clinician seems cold and direct, they've either dealt with a munchie recently, or they think you may be one.

Remember, even these scum can get actually sick. I've seen the total joy and excitement in the eyes of a munchie who was just diagnosed with liver cancer (it was as if they'd just won the lottery). So we have to treat them- but they get nothing extra from us. The sympathy and consideration and attention we spend freely on the unhappily ill, we do not extend to people with Munchausen's, as it encourages them to purposely worsen their illness or symptoms. Any extra kindness can trigger them to infect wounds, take chemicals or medication they shouldn't (like the girl eating the detergent), or other kinds of medical self-harm. You can't be nice to them at all, because it actually makes their prognosis worse. They're opposite land patients.

I've actually wondered how munchies react if they get a legit terminal diagnosis. I guess it depends on their level of delusions, but I figured some might be like "of fuck shit just got real" and others really think it's golden ticket time.

 

[repentance]

I've actually wondered how munchies react if they get a legit terminal diagnosis. I guess it depends on their level of delusions, but I figured some might be like "of fuck shit just got real" and others really think it's golden ticket time.

The thing is that most forms of terminal illness are common as mud so you're not really special to medical staff and you're just going to be one of many people having the same treatment for the same condition. It's your social circle which is likely to shower you with attention.

It's not really translatable to munchies because hypochondria (which is an extreme anxiety disorder) and Munchausen's have different psychological causes, but I remember reading a study years ago about how people with hypochondria deal with serious/terminal illness and the study found that they are much more realistic about their prognosis than people without hypochondria and that their anxiety is often reduced both compared to when they were well and in comparison to normal patients.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

The thing is that most forms of terminal illness are common as mud so you're not really special to medical staff and you're just going to be one of many people having the same treatment for the same condition. It's your social circle which is likely to shower you with attention.

It's not really translatable to munchies because hypochondria (which is an extreme anxiety disorder) and Munchausen's have different psychological causes, but I remember reading a study years ago about how people with hypochondria deal with serious/terminal illness and the study found that they are much more realistic about their prognosis than people without hypochondria and that their anxiety is often reduced both compared to when they were well and in comparison to normal patients.

Oh I know medical staff will treat everyone the same but it's the gravy and ass pats from friends, FB, tumblr when they can post CANCER or ALS, oh wait, I guess plenty do that with or without a diagnosis. But it at least raises the bar for those who don't outright lie and had to use the Fibro, IBS, something hard to physically diagnose bullshit.