Metal Gear

Wesker said:
Yes exactly. Maybe I'd feel differently about it if it was still a linear game. Taking MGS into open world and not giving you anything to do is everything against what the series was to that point. Carefully structured linear segments that have a few routes through gave the illusion of open world. MGS3 and 4 both executed that incredibly well. More so MGS3 since the terrain was excellent at hiding how much of a straight line it was. Having hills on left and right of the area funneled you forward but it didn't feel like you were just moving forward because the game wanted you to.
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It's funny how the one time the older games gave the player a small but relatively open area with objectives dotted around people complained about how boring and samey it was (the Big Shell).
 
Friendly Primarina said:
It's funny how the one time the older games gave the player a small but relatively open area with objectives dotted around people complained about how boring and samey it was (the Big Shell).
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No, people complained it wasn't big enough because it cleaely sets the expectation that it'll be twice that size and yet half of it was cut.

Big shell never should've been two shells but I imagine too many voice lines were recorded to fix it by the time they realized it was gonna be cut.
 
Friendly Primarina said:
It's funny how the one time the older games gave the player a small but relatively open area with objectives dotted around people complained about how boring and samey it was (the Big Shell).
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That's because Big Shell WAS boring and samey, people can cope all they want that it was intentionally so because of muh narrative, but the simple truth is that the opening tanker chapter was much better. Should have had the last third of the game be set on the streets of NYC, that way I don't think people would criticize the environment as much.
 
Scarthew said:
No, people complained it wasn't big enough because it cleaely sets the expectation that it'll be twice that size and yet half of it was cut.

Big shell never should've been two shells but I imagine too many voice lines were recorded to fix it by the time they realized it was gonna be cut.
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What?
 
Problematic User Forever said:
What?
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Early in the game you see this map, it sets an expectation of the quantity of content. When you reach the end of shell A you expect that you're half way done, you can even examine all the struts of shell B and see they all have names giving ideas for what kind of levels they'll each be. However the reality is that shell B is cut content and immediately after shell A you fight a boss, do a short platforming section and then you're brought to the final level. The map makes promises the game doesn't deliver on. However there's too many references in dialogue to the other shell that they couldn't just take it out of the game entirely. Leaving the game doomed to set players up for disappointment.

Unlike most cut content complaints where it's probably cut for a reason this was purely for time and it's so blatantly advertised in game that you can't help but complain.
 
lmfao Shell 2 wasn't cut content. Kojima is just a goofy fucking Jap. Everything in MGS2 is about setting up expectations and not delivering on them and this was no different.

Like you're absolutely right about what it did, but there was never a plan for a Shell 2 section.
 
Problematic User Forever said:
lmfao Shell 2 wasn't cut content. Kojima is just a goofy fucking Jap. Everything in MGS2 is about setting up expectations and not delivering on them and this was no different.

Like you're absolutely right about what it did, but there was never a plan for a Shell 2 section.
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There's just no way that's true, you don't design a map with 14 levels, show that stage select to the player and then only have 8.
 
Scarthew said:
There's just no way that's true, you don't design a map with 14 levels, show that stage select to the player and then only have 8.
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Metal Gear Solid 2 literally has one of the most documented developments ever. To the point that Kojima sold a "documentary game" on the PS2, the pretentious fuck.

And that thing has almost everything on it. It has the original storyboards, it has the *original* plot outline about Liquid stealing nukes in Iraq/Iran. It has the cut models of Arsenal crashing into New York. It has the cel-shaded early test character models as well as the weirder Shinkawa concept art style character model tests.

About the only things it doesn't have are the finished cutscene of Arsenal crashing into New York (if it was ever actually done) and the cut codec conversations that you can still access on the original MGS2 disk. (most of it amounts to Otacon giving Snake descriptions about cut items) mostly cause I don't think it bothered with any of the codec calls.

We know *so* much about the development that I can tell you the English dubbing sessions for MGS2 started on July 9, 2001.

I'm telling you, it was a design choice. With Kojima, if it's stupid as fuck there is a 95% chance it was a design/narrative choice.

Edit: Also, this might be a good time to link the translation of the original game outline of MGS2, for anyone that is interested in some of the things that were actually cut. It's interesting to see how much carried over into MGS4, actually.
 
retardedfaggot said:
how do you explain MGS5 then
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There's nothing to explain.

MGS V is the game Kojima wanted to make. Kojima cultists can deny this all they want, but the biggest fucking clue for this is that the following game he made, a game that was given as much time and funding as he wanted from Sony, was another big empty fucking world where you deliver packages in.

For some reason, big empty worlds is something Kojima likes.
 
Problematic User Forever said:
Metal Gear Solid 2 literally has one of the most documented developments ever. To the point that Kojima sold a "documentary game" on the PS2, the pretentious fuck.
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I'll give @Scarthew some credit in that The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 actually does have an early model of Strut L as a full Strut. Now, you do get to "visit" Strut L in the finished game, but it's such a tiny part that it might as well be considered unexplored (note the two doors at either end of the corridor when you enter, suggesting a much larger Strut).


That early model lists the Strut as a warehouse, though, not a sewage treatment plant. And it must have been cut early on, as it's not textured or anything. It's a bit of a stretch IMO to think that both Shells were going to be fully explorable for any real length of the game's development.

It did always bug me as a kid that you don't get to explore Shell 2, though. The Colonel even reacts if you call him while standing in front of Strut K.
 
retardedfaggot said:
how do you explain MGS5 then
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Kojima falls for the classic pitfall of big-shot developers of making a Wunderwaffe Ubergame. Since he has never erred before as far as management is concerned they leave him to it, only to check on him five years later and the game is fucked, going nowhere and over budget.

At least he managed to get his shit together afterwards since DS is a comparatively focused game.

Problematic User Forever said:
For some reason, big empty worlds is something Kojima likes.
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For TPP i think he just genuinely wanted to, as such was the style at the time. Big empty open worlds where the big ticket item during the early 8th generation, every fucking game was open world back then especially long running legacy franchises.

Death Stranding was in part a solution to a problem he saw in open world design, which is that you just put empty space between actual content, so he wanted to make traversing the world the content.
 
retardedfaggot said:
how do you explain MGS5 then
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ackshually it's not MGS5 it's MGSV. The V stands for Venom, it's not the roman numeral for five. Kojimbles made a point of clarifying this.
Problematic User Forever said:
There's nothing to explain.

MGS V is the game Kojima wanted to make. Kojima cultists can deny this all they want, but the biggest fucking clue for this is that the following game he made, a game that was given as much time and funding as he wanted from Sony, was another big empty fucking world where you deliver packages in.

For some reason, big empty worlds is something Kojima likes.
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If Konami gave him an extra year and unlimited money in that time then all he'd do is finish the Kingdom of the Flies mission and scan both sides of Stefanie Joosten's feet instead of just the bottoms. Maybe guard dogs and security cameras wouldn't have been cut.
 
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