Avatar: The Last Airbender / The Legend of Korra

[Fellen]

Just a bunch of random thoughts about the leaked Avatar movie. The visuals are beautiful, but the characters feel off. Who the hell wrote this script? Katara is only around for Aang. Why is Toph perpetually horny in this movie? It's funny how they made the main female characters have nothing going for them except lusting after men or supporting men. The voice acting is a downgrade, but that was always going to be the case for not bringing the original voice actors back. Seriously, the story is centered around finding a MacGuffin? I guess this movie confirms to me that Bryke are either one-hit wonders or frauds who were carried by the talent around them when making The Last Airbender.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

Ok, I understand why she was mainly mad at Mako: Korra was a sheltered idiot. Mako was experienced and in a relationship. Should she be angry at Korra? To an extent. But Mako was more in the wrong.

No, Korra was openly hitting on Mako and was the one who forced a kiss on him plus acting very cold to Asami for a long time. All Asami knows is that this girl who she knows for a fact likes her boyfriend and also kissed him at one point and is the reason why she's being put on the sidelines. Asami would've been mega-pissed at both of them or at least should've been if the show was written logically. Instead she just targets Mako exclusively when Korra is really the main instigator from Asami's POV.

They chose Mako.

Then it turns out fans hate Mako, so they made Korra break up with Mako.

Fans hated both Korra and Mako for the BS writing in Book One so it's really more Bryke trying to walk back their writing errors.

 

[Incecticyder]

No, Korra was openly hitting on Mako and was the one who forced a kiss on him plus acting very cold to Asami for a long time. All Asami knows is that this girl who she knows for a fact likes her boyfriend and also kissed him at one point and is the reason why she's being put on the sidelines. Asami would've been mega-pissed at both of them or at least should've been if the show was written logically. Instead she just targets Mako exclusively when Korra is really the main instigator from Asami's POV.

I assume that part of that was that Korra was more unpleasant than they realized. Maybe they forgot that Asami didn't know about Korra's upbringing? Then again, teens are irrational. That might be the case.

Fans hated both Korra and Mako for the BS writing in Book One so it's really more Bryke trying to walk back their writing errors.

Yet they didn't improve either character. They gave up on them.

 

[Duine In Cudromach]

Fans hated both Korra and Mako for the BS writing in Book One so it's really more Bryke trying to walk back their writing errors.

Not much you can do when one of othem in your main character. It is funny, though, that having them break up just made Korra even worse.

Back when Korra first started airing I always found the hate against Korra to be unnecessary. Not that I found her a likeable character, but in the context of a limited series we were obviously starting from a very rough baseline that was innately anathema to the Avatar's goals (thus her inability to use Airbending or enter the Avatar state at all) and setting up a story where she learns humility and empathy and the see the seeds of her growing into her role.

So I lost that bet.

On reflection, though, I feel like the issue isn't even that they just failed to set up a proper character arc but that the writers themselves simply don't value traditional heroism. It's a common issue with a lot of modern writing that the lead doesn't really need to do much growing or changing, Society needs to recognize their worth and stop getting in their way. I'm not sure if Korra necessarily went that far (I tuned out miday through Season 2, just could not slog through it; I know where the story heads after that point but I can't say anything with confience about its overall execution) but it did seem to me that Korra was really just never... forced to grow up, meaningfully?

Maybe I'm wrong in the grand scheme (although from what I've seen in the follow-up comics there is a remarkable narrative narcissism going on that tells me I'm not) but that was definitely the problem with Season 1. Korra didn't unlock her spiritual potential by actually growing as a person, she just freaked out during a fight and then all the past Avatars said "Oh honey it's gonna be okay" and gave hre superpowers for... um...

...

Let me get back to you on that.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

No, Korra was openly hitting on Mako and was the one who forced a kiss on him plus acting very cold to Asami for a long time. All Asami knows is that this girl who she knows for a fact likes her boyfriend and also kissed him at one point and is the reason why she's being put on the sidelines. Asami would've been mega-pissed at both of them or at least should've been if the show was written logically. Instead she just targets Mako exclusively when Korra is really the main instigator from Asami's POV.

Not Toph hooking up with Not Zuko was destined because Not Zuko is the Brooding Handsome Firebending man, but they had to tease that Not Toph was gonna hook up with Not Sokka because "look we are so smarter than you we set you up to think something then totally fooled you by doing something else." and made both Not-Toph and Not-Zuko look like giant fucking assholes..which made everyone hate the pairing so they said "Fuck it offscreen U-haul Lesbian time"

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

Not much you can do when one of othem in your main character. It is funny, though, that having them break up just made Korra even worse.

Back when Korra first started airing I always found the hate against Korra to be unnecessary. Not that I found her a likeable character, but in the context of a limited series we were obviously starting from a very rough baseline that was innately anathema to the Avatar's goals (thus her inability to use Airbending or enter the Avatar state at all) and setting up a story where she learns humility and empathy and the see the seeds of her growing into her role.

So I lost that bet.

On reflection, though, I feel like the issue isn't even that they just failed to set up a proper character arc but that the writers themselves simply don't value traditional heroism. It's a common issue with a lot of modern writing that the lead doesn't really need to do much growing or changing, Society needs to recognize their worth and stop getting in their way. I'm not sure if Korra necessarily went that far (I tuned out miday through Season 2, just could not slog through it; I know where the story heads after that point but I can't say anything with confience about its overall execution) but it did seem to me that Korra was really just never... forced to grow up, meaningfully?

Maybe I'm wrong in the grand scheme (although from what I've seen in the follow-up comics there is a remarkable narrative narcissism going on that tells me I'm not) but that was definitely the problem with Season 1. Korra didn't unlock her spiritual potential by actually growing as a person, she just freaked out during a fight and then all the past Avatars said "Oh honey it's gonna be okay" and gave hre superpowers for... um...

...

Let me get back to you on that.

The term Mary Sue gets overused a fair amount but Korra skirts very close to if not outright steps over the line on multiple occasions:

1) Is liked by most people even when she screws them over and when somebody doesn't like her they are portrayed as irrational assholes even when they are totally right (President Raiko).
2) Is insanely overpowered to the extent that the only times she loses a fight is when there are some kind of bullshit external plot devices at play that exist sorely to knock her down. She also picks up new skills very easily and barely ever struggles.
3) To top it off none of the setbacks she suffers significantly force her to change her character and most of the time they are undone seconds afterwards (bending removed, Avatar State taken away). Only getting poisoned had any noticeable impact and it ended up being undone in the stupidest manner possible anyway.

 

[Incecticyder]

On reflection, though, I feel like the issue isn't even that they just failed to set up a proper character arc but that the writers themselves simply don't value traditional heroism.

That is not the issue. Korra is a very Western character. Charging in with heroic valor. The thing is, without adding the positive characteristics of that kind of character, you get a reckless idiot. They made Korra the opposite of Aang but forgot to add the strengths of such a character. They instead filled her with weaknesses. They made her have different weaknesses than Aang but forgot the strengths that balanced them out. Aang is passive but wise. Korra is impulsive and stupid. Such a character tends to think well under pressure and is good at improvising. Korra lacks that.

1) Is liked by most people even when she screws them over and when somebody doesn't like her they are portrayed as irrational assholes even when they are totally right (President Raiko).

I have to disagree. The story always portrayed Korra's decisions as impulsive and short-sighted. And that is the issue. Korra was always shown to be an idiot that others have to direct away from her stupidity. She never had a clear victory outside of season 4.

2) Is insanely overpowered to the extent that the only times she loses a fight is when there are some kind of bullshit external plot devices at play that exist sorely to knock her down. She also picks up new skills very easily and barely ever struggles.

She is very talented but she lacks good decision making. That overcorrects and makes her a weak character.

3) To top it off none of the setbacks she suffers significantly force her to change her character and most of the time they are undone seconds afterwards (bending removed, Avatar State taken away). Only getting poisoned had any noticeable impact and it ended up being undone in the stupidest manner possible anyway.

That I agree. She never truly learns to control her temper. She never really gets wise.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Ah, my teenager days crush.

Korra is just Aang's antithesis: she have the initial power but not the experience, like @Incecticyder said.
Sadly she never learn anything by the plot. Each season is a soft reset.

 

[Exegesis]

Wasn't Korra's production process like really bad because they were never sure if they'd get renewed for another season so they had to write each season finale as if it was there last? I remember hearing something like that online.
In my opinion, what would've saved the show is if they had 2 seasons to work with Kurvira and her empire in the end because the show didn't properly confront the issue of Republic Cities existence or the problems within the Earth Empire. They did some last minute half assed bullshit by vaguely alluding to concentration camps and all that shit because they don't know how to write a proper Nazi/hypernationalist character.

 

[Incecticyder]

Wasn't Korra's production process like really bad because they were never sure if they'd get renewed for another season so they had to write each season finale as if it was there last? I remember hearing something like that online.

Correct. However, seasons 3 and 4 were approved together. They had two seasons to make sure Korra, Asami and Mako were properly developed. It clearly didn't take. Like, you decide that Korrasami is your endgame, right? Then have them get together during the 3 year time skip. Have Korra recover somewhat during the time skip by staying at Asami's place for a time and have them grow closer. That way, it would have been easier to explain their relationship. And have Mako end up with someone, dammit!

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

I have to disagree. The story always portrayed Korra's decisions as impulsive and short-sighted. And that is the issue. Korra was always shown to be an idiot that others have to direct away from her stupidity. She never had a clear victory outside of season 4.

I don't see it. Aside from that one episode at the start of book one where she challenges Amon to a 1 v. 1 and he predictably doesn't acquiesce to this stupidity and shows up with a whole army of Equalist goons, none of Korra's decisions ever backfire on her. They seem impulsive and short-sighted to the audience but story-wise they work out basically all the time.

Wasn't Korra's production process like really bad because they were never sure if they'd get renewed for another season so they had to write each season finale as if it was there last? I remember hearing something like that online.

That's a myth. They initially had only one season approved when they first started working on the show but then got approved for all four books before the first season even aired. Also worth noting that Nickelodeon offered Bryke to have 20+ episode seasons but they were the ones who stupidly insisted on 12-14 episode seasons while trying to cram each one with a story that absolutely does not fit in a 12-14 episode season.

 

[Duine In Cudromach]

That's a myth. They initially had only one season approved when they first started working on the show but then got approved for all four books before the first season even aired.

It was pretty nutty the way they kept yanking it around the network but fundamentally, yeah, the production wasn't all t hat complicated. The first season is the only one th at really suffered from this, as they were given the greenlight for the next seasons after it was too late in production to make any changes. I give Season 1 a little grace for this (although that in no way forgives the decision to tell the story the way they did, if they knew they only had the twelve episodes) but the others really have no excuse (except that they fucked themselves by resotirng her bending at the end of Season 1, I know I'm not th e first person to notice that it would've been an easy up too have the following seasons be about her actually learning the spiritual aspects of bending now that she's been stripped of her physical power).

I don't see it. Aside from that one episode at the start of book one where she challenges Amon to a 1 v. 1 and he predictably doesn't acquiesce to this stupidity and shows up with a whole army of Equalist goons, none of Korra's decisions ever backfire on her. They seem impulsive and short-sighted to the audience but story-wise they work out basically all the time.

Right, and this was my point. It's not that Korra 'lacks strength', it's that the writers didn't seem to understand what those strengths actually are, so Korrra is more or less never met with any real friction. Korra is implsive, but character flaws are irrelevant if the story never meaningfully pushes back against them.

An argument could be made that her inability to airbend was supposed to be a pushback and she would need to overcome her brashness and ego in order to become a true Avatar, but the resolution was arbitrary and didn't actually force her to confront her weaknesses, which leaves the impression that from a narrative perspective, Korra doesn't really need to develop.

You mentioned Mary Sue and I agree. A lot of what people point to as indications of Mary Sue are common symptoms of an underlying story failure. Mary Sue isn't just super powerful and really talented and beloved by everyone and hot, the story bends over backwards to make sure she encounters minimal, meaningful challengul challenge, and what challenge she does encounter is usually turned to enforce sympathy than real growth. Korra's mercury poisoning could've been a really cool thing for her to overcome: we missed out on her having to re-learn the spiritual aspect of bending, but we could still really dig into who Korra is when denied prowess as Avatar.

But that's hard and it means Korra has to try and we don't get cool fights so... eh.

 

[Incecticyder]

I don't see it. Aside from that one episode at the start of book one where she challenges Amon to a 1 v. 1 and he predictably doesn't acquiesce to this stupidity and shows up with a whole army of Equalist goons, none of Korra's decisions ever backfire on her. They seem impulsive and short-sighted to the audience but story-wise they work out basically all the time.

Did we watch a different show? Because that is not the only thing that happened. Korra acts impulsive and that plays into the enemy's hand all the time.

Even if we stick to just the major instances, she was stupid and impulsive enough to help things escalate out of hand.

Season 1:

She attacked Equalist supporters and that lead to an increase in membership due to propaganda. That lead to oppressive crackdowns by Tarlok. She then attacks Tarlok, gets captured and that makes everything worse. She attacks Amon and gets her ass kicked again.

Season 2:

She believes Unalag and abandons her Airbending training before she masters anything. She then realizes that she got tricked and impulsively starts attacking. She breaks up with Mako after putting him in an impossible situation by asking him to basically ruin his life. She then gets amnesia. She charges at the Dark Avatar and loses the previous lives and their wisdom.

Season 3:

Her portal opening unleased spirits, Airbenders and plants that overtake Republic City. She gets into a fight with Raiko and gets exiled.

Season 4:

She abandons everyone which allows Kuvira to expand, does not get all the mercury out which leads to more issues, starts a fight with Kuvira which she loses and bolsters Kuvira's forces and just makes a bad situation worse.

And those are just the big mistakes caused by her impulsive personality. There are smaller decisions too.

Right, and this was my point. It's not that Korra 'lacks strength', it's that the writers didn't seem to understand what those strengths actually are, so Korrra is more or less never met with any real friction. Korra is implsive, but character flaws are irrelevant if the story never meaningfully pushes back against them.

An argument could be made that her inability to airbend was supposed to be a pushback and she would need to overcome her brashness and ego in order to become a true Avatar, but the resolution was arbitrary and didn't actually force her to confront her weaknesses, which leaves the impression that from a narrative perspective, Korra doesn't really need to develop.

You mentioned Mary Sue and I agree. A lot of what people point to as indications of Mary Sue are common symptoms of an underlying story failure. Mary Sue isn't just super powerful and really talented and beloved by everyone and hot, the story bends over backwards to make sure she encounters minimal, meaningful challengul challenge, and what challenge she does encounter is usually turned to enforce sympathy than real growth. Korra's mercury poisoning could've been a really cool thing for her to overcome: we missed out on her having to re-learn the spiritual aspect of bending, but we could still really dig into who Korra is when denied prowess as Avatar.

But that's hard and it means Korra has to try and we don't get cool fights so... eh.

Not really. She does get challenged. And others do call her out on her impulsiveness. It just doesn't stick. She always regresses somewhat. She either doesn't learn or she overcorrects. She isn't a Mary Sue. She is someone the characters, the narrative and the writers stopped having expectations for. She is that dumb friend that you keep an eye on to make sure she doesn't hurt herself.

Everyone looks at Korra and goes "Well, she is stupid and she can't help it". You wrote the story! Why make this a story about someone who is starting out flawed and never learns to at least be decent? They had no plan for her progression. She is largely static. Aang was a leader. Korra feels like an aggressive follower the leader has to babysit. Make her have charisma and intelligence, dammit!

 

[Kabobs]

Q

Correct. However, seasons 3 and 4 were approved together. They had two seasons to make sure Korra, Asami and Mako were properly developed. It clearly didn't take. Like, you decide that Korrasami is your endgame, right? Then have them get together during the 3 year time skip. Have Korra recover somewhat during the time skip by staying at Asami's place for a time and have them grow closer. That way, it would have been easier to explain their relationship. And have Mako end up with someone, dammit!

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Nick executives frown at the idea of same sex relationships so they had to dance around it? This was a short time before that became acceptable to depict in children’s media, wasn’t it?

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Nick executives frown at the idea of same sex relationships so they had to dance around it?

Maybe. The strings are visible for a while though.

This was a short time before that became acceptable to depict in children’s media, wasn’t it?

Remember 2013 was the year of the blight Steven's Universe appeared. It was a matter of time to appeal homosexuals on media.

 

[Tinnitus]

Q


Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Nick executives frown at the idea of same sex relationships so they had to dance around it? This was a short time before that became acceptable to depict in children’s media, wasn’t it?

It was like the Beaver show where the last episode had them break character and confirm the show was over.

Nick execs did'nt have the time to pull the episode before release or edit it.

In Korra's case the final episode revealing that she loves Asami was probably also a last minute addition and Nick just couldn't do shit.

Extra, Rebecca made Ruby wear the wedding dress over Sapphire because the russian dub had the former as male.

 

[Incecticyder]

Q


Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Nick executives frown at the idea of same sex relationships so they had to dance around it? This was a short time before that became acceptable to depict in children’s media, wasn’t it?

Correct. However, they were also understanding. They allowed it as long as there was no kiss more or less. That makes it all the more important to have it in the script that they talk about it. You know, they were still allowed to imply and later confirm the relationship. They had to dance around it but this was no dance. This was a drop.

Do not try to justify their decision to waste the little time they had. Little lines of dialogue such as "You are the one I missed the most!", "Do you feel the same way I feel? Yes, I do." and the like were more or less acceptable. But they didn't do it. They fumbled the bag.

Look, I have no dog in this fight. I just wanted a happy ending. If they are going to pick a ship, do support it. Nothing was well planned here.

Remember 2013 was the year of the blight Steven's Universe appeared. It was a matter of time to appeal homosexuals on media.

Blight is right. It was the show that taught them that lack of professionalism can still find success. TV never recovered after that.

In Korra's case the final episode revealing that she loves Asami was probably also a last minute addition and Nick just couldn't do shit.

According to Bryke, they talked with Nick about it and they were told that they could as long as it was not explicit due to guidelines. Implying was fine.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Weren't Korra's viewership numbers so deep in the toilet that the final season wasn't even on TV and was an online-exclusive?

 

[Not Funny]

This movie seems to be a really mixed bag.

Honestly I thought it was okay. There are some glaring issues but I'm willing to overlook them because they at least didn't bastardize everything like the live action show is doing or the other movie that came out. They seemed to remain faithful to the original characters too. I'm not sure why they decided that new voice actors that matched the ethnicities of the characters needed to be cast. Of course some of them have fucking star power. Nothing takes me out of a scene more than hearing fucking Glenn/Invincible's voice come out of Zuko.

This has to be one of the most mismanaged animated franchises I've ever seen. There's so much potential and they keep squandering it over and over again. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with corporate interference but while this movie did give me some hope its immediately taken away when I remember what the new show is going to look like.

Weren't Korra's viewership numbers so deep in the toilet that the final season wasn't even on TV and was an online-exclusive?

Yes and it also faced significant budget cuts to the point where some people theorized that's why Korra's hair is shorter. Way cheaper to animate.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

This movie seems to be a really mixed bag.

The general consensus seems to be:
-Good animation, if a little heavy on the anime emulation
-Characters are kinda flanderized
-Villain is lame
-Story is "non-canon anime movie" levels of nothing
-The new voice actors are mid as fuck

while this movie did give me some hope its immediately taken away when I remember what they're doing with the new show that's supposed to be coming out.

Oh yeah the post-apocalyptic one that doesn't look anything remotely like Avatar

Forgot that shit even got announced, which I guess explains why they sidetracked it to make a movie about Aang lewl