Weightlifting for Kiwis - Discussion and support regarding the art of swole

Gym got another megamass piece. It's excellent
 

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SOLDIER OF WALES said:
I need a sanity check, how much grams of protein per lb of bodyweight to max out muscle gains? At 0.8g/lb now but I'm seeing stuff that says 1g and otherwise, even for bulks.

In other news, punched past my last bench PR as a beginner. 225 coming soon :D
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It's complicated. In theory, there's no observed upper limit, some studies have gone to pretty absurd numbers and still seen an increase (allegedly), though there are diminishing returns.

In practice, you're probably going to be bottlenecked by calories, the need for carbs + fat, and/or gluconeogenesis. Your body needs more than protein, and if it doesn't get it it will just convert protein into glucose, at which point you'd've probably been better off eating less protein and more carbs/fat. Conventional wisdom says somewhere in the ballpark of a 1:1:1 ratio of protein:carbs:fat by calories, not a hard rule but a rough guideline. But if you scale your carbs and fat to match your protein intake, rather than adjusting the ratio, you're obviously going to exceed your calorie target. At which point it becomes a question of how fat are you willing to get. So the practical answer becomes "as much as you can get, while staying in your caloric window, without neglecting your other macros". Which should be close to that 1g/lb target. Honestly I think 1g/lb is a popular figure just because it's dead simple to calculate, but it's not a bad target in any regard.

Source: my incomplete understanding and questionable memory. But it's served me fine.

Edit: jfc this site.
Code: 
1:1:1
protein:carbs:fat
 
dick brain said:
Is there such a thing as like... strength dysmorphia?
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i have reverse strength dysmorphia
i constantly feel like i'm an ultra strong behemoth of a man who can lift a car one handed, despite my actual lifting PRs being rather small and unimpressive

SOLDIER OF WALES said:
I need a sanity check, how much grams of protein per lb of bodyweight to max out muscle gains? At 0.8g/lb now but I'm seeing stuff that says 1g and otherwise, even for bulks.

In other news, punched past my last bench PR as a beginner. 225 coming soon :D
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"max out" idk
for a reasonable lifter (not a pro athlete or bodybuilder and not on steroids) something around 2g per kg (or 0.8g per lb) is more than enough to enable muscle growth at or near the maximum rate that your body can achieve. maybe if you are below age 25 and your body hasn't finished growing you could benefit from more but even then i'd say this ratio will easily get you to >95% of your theoretical maximum growth rate so it's really not worth worrying over cramming in even more than that.

if you grow unnaturally fast because you're taking growth hormone and anabolics then more is better, but otherwise you won't get any significant improvement from force feeding yourself obscene amounts of chicken breast and whey every day.
 
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The Stranger said:
You need more carbs than protein
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no, you need protein to build muscle and carbs to have energy to workout
"Post-exercise consumption of protein is the most effective strategy to induce increments in MPS and promote muscle mass gains. The increment in MPS (muscle protein synthesis) is maximally stimulated at a dose of protein of approximately 25 g or 10 g EAA. This rise is based solely on protein consumption and is not augmented by carbohydrate, at least when protein is adequate. Leucine plays a key role in the stimulation of MPS and appears to be a key activator in switching on MPS, which appears important in the elderly and also following resistance exercise. Thus, high-quality, rapidly digested,leucine-rich proteins such as whey protein would appear tobe ideal candidates for stimulating MPS and promotion of hypertrophy."
SOLDIER OF WALES said:
I need a sanity check, how much grams of protein per lb of bodyweight to max out muscle gains? At 0.8g/lb now but I'm seeing stuff that says 1g and otherwise, even for bulks.
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depends. It really doesn't matter the exact amounts. 1g/lb (or 2g/kg) is easier to calculate so go with that
 
24nagging said:
no, you need protein to build muscle and carbs to have energy to workout
"Post-exercise consumption of protein is the most effective strategy to induce increments in MPS and promote muscle mass gains. The increment in MPS (muscle protein synthesis) is maximally stimulated at a dose of protein of approximately 25 g or 10 g EAA. This rise is based solely on protein consumption and is not augmented by carbohydrate, at least when protein is adequate. Leucine plays a key role in the stimulation of MPS and appears to be a key activator in switching on MPS, which appears important in the elderly and also following resistance exercise. Thus, high-quality, rapidly digested,leucine-rich proteins such as whey protein would appear tobe ideal candidates for stimulating MPS and promotion of hypertrophy."

depends. It really doesn't matter the exact amounts. 1g/lb (or 2g/kg) is easier to calculate so go with that
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You soyence-based bros are fucking retarded sometimes. This entire study you've linked is about timing protein after your exercise which has nothing to do with what we were talking about (overall macro-nutrient split).
 
The Stranger said:
You soyence-based bros are fucking retarded sometimes. This entire study you've linked is about timing protein after your exercise which has nothing to do with what we were talking about (overall macro-nutrient split).
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It's not only looking and talking about that, and that's not the only conclusion that it draws. AND it is just a fact that the body uses protein the build muscle; more carbs are gonna make you fat and gay. Am not the retard here. Just count calories and make sure you are getting enough protein. That's it
 
24nagging said:
It's not only looking and talking about that, and that's not the only conclusion that it draws. AND it is just a fact that the body uses protein the build muscle; more carbs are gonna make you fat and gay. Am not the retard here. Just count calories and make sure you are getting enough protein. That's it
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Did you even read the study? All of the conclusions it draws are within the context of post-exercise recovery. Just do a basic search for macro-splits for hypertrophy: every single result says eat more carbs than protein. The only exception to this are recommendations for eating equal amounts of carbs and protein for the purpose of maintaining muscle while on a cut.

24nagging said:
more carbs are gonna make you fat and gay
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Holy shit you are retarded. Carbs don't magically make you fat, excess calories make you fat. Literally, do you even lift?
 
0.8g protein per lb of body weight. If on a deep cut then up to 1.2g of protein per lb of goal body weight. 40-60g of fat to keep hormones working. Fill the rest of your calorie allotment out with carbs.
 
before i got banned from my gym because of the mask requirement and calling the owner a cuck, i used to go 2-3 hours a day for years (and up to 4 hours a day at the gym before that). i think its good to mix it up a lot and not wear yourself out with anything, unless you're some bodybuilding homo who wants huge bulging muscles. i prefer farm strength/functional strength and being able to go every day because it kept me sane. did lots of yoga, climbing, heavy bag.

oh how i miss that gym. haven't found one half as good since, so i'm pretty out of shape now.
 
dick brain said:
I appear to have gotten something wrong because @24nagging is agreeing with me.
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Fyi your 1 : 1 : 1 ratio would put daily protein intake at about 1.5g per pound of bodyweight. So you can either do 1 : 1 : 1 or you can do 1g per pound - not both simultaneously.
 
The Stranger said:
Carbs don't magically make you fat
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carbs can easily add more calories to your diet, specially because sugar (a carb) is so tasty. So yes you are are gonna get fat on a high carb diet (unless you do tons of cardio ofcourse)
The Stranger said:
All of the conclusions it draws are within the context of post-exercise recovery.
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M'kay
"We can also state with good certainty that merely consuming energy, as carbohydrate for example, is also not sufficient to maximise muscle protein synthesis leading to anabolism and net new muscle protein accretion"
The author is basically making it a given that protein > carbs for more muscle. But sure, let's say that study is not kosher, this is one for sure is: "In summary, the current body of evidence does not support carbohydrate intake as a significant independent determinant of RT (resistance training)-induced muscle hypertrophy."
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dick brain said:
I appear to have gotten something wrong because @24nagging is agreeing with me.
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am more reasonable than what most people here think. My only real disagreement is the big 5 and training volume and intensity
 
24nagging said:
carbs can easily add more calories to your diet, specially because sugar (a carb) is so tasty. So yes you are are gonna get fat on a high carb diet (unless you do tons of cardio ofcourse)

M'kay
"We can also state with good certainty that merely consuming energy, as carbohydrate for example, is also not sufficient to maximise muscle protein synthesis leading to anabolism and net new muscle protein accretion"
The author is basically making it a given that protein > carbs for more muscle. But sure, let's say that study is not kosher, this is one for sure is: "In summary, the current body of evidence does not support carbohydrate intake as a significant independent determinant of RT (resistance training)-induced muscle hypertrophy."
View attachment 8880395

am more reasonable than what most people here think. My only real disagreement is the big 5 and training volume and intensity
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All of these sciene retard shit is worthless because Mike Mentzer's tik tok videos don't mention it.
 
24nagging said:
M'kay
"We can also state with good certainty that merely consuming energy, as carbohydrate for example, is also not sufficient to maximise muscle protein synthesis leading to anabolism and net new muscle protein accretion"
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>Leaves out the preceeding sentence that contextualizes the later.
"Growing evidence supports the conclusion that consumption of protein in close temporal
proximity to the performance of resistance exercise promotes greater muscular hypertrophy."

24nagging said:
this is one for sure is:
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"Conclusions A higher carbohydrate intake may not independently enhance muscle hypertrophy during resistance training, though certainty of evidence is low. Future studies should employ stricter energy intake control and utilize direct morpho-logical assessments to clarify the role of carbohydrate intake independent of total energy balance."
Lol try again. Actually, don't, because you clearly only read the headline.
 
TheVoodooThatJewDo said:
before i got banned from my gym because of the mask requirement and calling the owner a cuck, i used to go 2-3 hours a day for years (and up to 4 hours a day at the gym before that).
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>goes to the gym for 3-4 hours a day
>calls bodybuilders homos

OK so you were there for what, ogling man cock? Did you spend most of that time in the locker room?

Or did you just do a 15 minute rest between every set?

24nagging said:
"We can also state with good certainty that merely consuming energy, as carbohydrate for example, is also not sufficient to maximise muscle protein synthesis leading to anabolism and net new muscle protein accretion"
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Nobody is making the argument that "merely consuming carbohydrates will lead to anabolism". Why is this being treated as some sort of slam dunk soyence deboonk, when that isn't even the claim being made?
 
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