Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Getting rid of your tanks and APCs/IFVs because muh drones means you're willing to advance at the pace of shank's mare (aka walking). And if armored vehicles are too vulnerable to drones then hey get rid of your artillery and trucks too
 
Meh, I don't feel bad for Russians
It's pretty inappropriate to liken the Russian aggressors to animals, unless you consider a virus an animal. I do feel very bad about all the (actual) animals killed or otherwise affected by this fucking shit.

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Getting rid of your tanks and APCs/IFVs because muh drones means you're willing to advance at the pace of shank's mare (aka walking). And if armored vehicles are too vulnerable to drones then hey get rid of your artillery and trucks too
Kinda funny that I stumbled upon this video yestrerday.


Bring back the P-51
 
even if its not out of the war or maybe even out of the battle.
You can mission kill, mobility kill, or crew-kill a tank, but that doesn't stop the tank from being put back into service.
I agree. Though tangentially related In most nation's training for tank crew its explicitly said that the goal of a tank crew when a tank is disabled is to dismount, return to friendly lines and get another tank. The most valuable part of a tank is the crew. Tanks can be recovered and put back into service, dead crew can only be recovered. When an Abrams cooks off and the crew lives its 10x better than losing it all. Unfortunately many 3rd worldists can only think of hard cash and not lives unlike many in the west. An example I go back to is the recent US rescue mission in Iran where they scuttled their own aircraft but got everyone out alive. There's a clear divide, those who say "Everyone made it out thats a good mission" and those who say "You wasted millions for one guy! Ha!" because they can't comprehend that one pilot is worth multiple aircraft in training alone. Same with Ukraine. The loss of an Abrams or a Leopard 2 sucks but when the crew lives the based Z trad warriors talk about the cost of the machinery and not the crew that made the machine work.
 
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they can't comprehend that one pilot is worth multiple aircraft in training alone
It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
 
Unfortunately many 3rd worldists can only think of hard cash and not lives.
Russia and its proxies simply believe that having the same casualty ratio as Operation Barbarossa is simply part and parcel of conflict seeing as it was their largest sample size for determining what should be acceptable.
 
It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
It costs 13 million to train a single pilot in the USAF for one airframe and most pilots go through multiple airframes in a 20 year career not counting the eventual transition to civilian sectors which costs money to train them for again and is another service rendered mostly to the U.S. after leaving the U.S military. They also take years to replace unlike aircraft that are made on an assembly. Also I said westerners not just "Americans" which in general care more about the lives of others than any individual from a nation that hasn't figured out toilets though Americans are far more empathetic than even south Americans whether or not they dump all defense spending into medicare. If you can't see third worlders don't value life like most in the west do then I don't know what to tell you. Yeah there's greedy corporate overlords that love money and don't care if you die but the majority of people in western civilization can't stomach the idea of trading people for aircraft. Though I would be willing to recant my statement if you can convince me that Americans and/or the west as a whole don't value life because military money could have gone to medical bills.
 
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It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
IIRC its something like 80 flight hours to get listed as "qualified" on a plane, not counting classroom instructional periods and simulators. Yeah, its expensive, even before you factor in the potential for an accident that leaves the airframe a loss, or simply damage from novices being novices that needs to be fixed.
 
It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
Yes, pilots are extremely expensive to train and maintain their certifications. You don't just go through plane school and it's over, you constantly have to retrain and re-certify for your aircraft and weapons systems every year or two; assuming you don't get certified on new aircraft as well. Then comes food, healthcare, housing, etc. Over their careers they will easily cost more than the aircraft they flew. This is true for a lot of technical specialist jobs in the military, that by the time personnel have been trained and re certified, certified on new equipment, etc over their careers the maintainers themselves typically cost more than the equipment they've spent their careers working on. Not true in all cases obviously but it's a decent general rule.

There's also a massive difference in the US having a systematic rescue and recovery program, vs it being entirely ad-hoc in most other nations militaries. It's the difference between knowing someone is coming, vs hoping someone is coming if they care enough and it's easy enough to pull off.

Your comparison is also bad because the US spending on healthcare dwarfs it's military spending by almost 2 to 1. In 2024 alone the US government spent 1.9 trillion on healthcare while spending 995 billion on the military. The USs healthcare issues stemming from military spending is a meme with no basis in reality, spending more does not make better in the healthcare world otherwise the US would be the world's #1 in military and healthcare simultaneously.
 
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It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
Bro

Bad lifestyle behaviors is the disease. Beetus, hypertension, heart disease, fatty liver, other organ problems, widespread arthritis and other joint/muscle problems, they're the symptoms of being sedentary and shitty diet. What America and Europe have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is that throwing money at the symptoms does nothing but keep the people alive longer, and they need more money thrown at the symptoms as they age. The bad lifestyle behaviors don't change for the vast majority of the afflicted, so all we do is manage the symptoms. Throwing ever more money at managing the symptoms does "save lives" but it requires them to be continuously "saved" for decades

You could throw the entire military budget at it on top of the money already being spent and that wouldn't change a thing
 
While the Soldiers are fighting against Russia, there has been some massive holes in food logstics and some soliders lose weight rapidly.
url archive
snippet:
Ukraine’s defence ministry has fired a top commander after photos emerged of a group of emaciated soldiers who have been left on the frontline for months without proper food and water.

The scandal erupted after the wife of one of the soldiers, Anastasiia Silchuk, posted the images on social media. The four men appeared to be pale and visibly malnourished, with prominent ribcages and thin arms.


The soldiers had spent eight months defending a shrinking bulge of territory on the left bank of the Oskil River, near the north-eastern Ukrainian city of Kupiansk, their relatives said. Supplies of food and medicines could only be flown in by drone.

“When the lads arrived at the frontlines, they weighed over 80–90kg. But now they weigh around 50kg,” Silchuk posted. After one delivery, she said, no more food turned up for 10 days. The soldiers were forced to drink rainwater and melt snow to survive.

“The longest they went without food was 17 days. They weren’t listened to on the radio, or perhaps no one wanted to listen to them. My husband shouted and begged, saying there was no food and water,” she said, adding that the problem was bigger than just one case.

Another relative, Ivanna Poberezhnyuk, said the soldiers from the 14th Separate Mechanised brigade were left in an extremely difficult situation. “Fighters are losing consciousness from hunger,” she said. Her father was evacuated from the position, but others were still stuck there, she added.

Ukraine’s general staff said it had replaced the commander, who was responsible for feeding the soldiers. The brigade acknowledged there were logistical problems and said deliveries were only possible by air because their location was extremely close to enemy lines.

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Photo of three of the soliders.
 
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The putinist rats are jumping off the sinking ship. Orbán announced today that he is not picking up his parliamentary mandate - the legally relatively clean Gulyás Gergely will lead the FIDESZ faction.

According to some investigative journalists (including Panyi Szabolcs) Orban is planning on moving to New York, hoping he'll be legally sheltered by Trump; his daughter and son-in-law moved there half a year ago. He also looks physically worse than he ever has, the loss has certainly takena toll on him.

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At this point I do genuinely believe there is going to be a legal bloodbath and we will see all these prominent billionaire politicians like Orban, Szijjarto, Rogan in chains sooner rather than later.

Magyar Péter has just put out a press release where he called for all foreign and domestic investors to not engage at all with the Hungarian NER leviathan's massive post-elections sell-off; assuming they don't want the cheaply acquired ill-gotten gains seized a couple months later. Translated below:

Orbán’s oligarchs are transferring tens of billions to the United Arab Emirates, the United States, Uruguay, and other distant countries.

I am aware that the National Tax and Customs Administration (NAV) has suspended several high-value transfers linked to people in Antal Rogán’s circle, following alerts from banks on suspicion of money laundering. I call on the leadership of the NAV to immediately freeze these stolen funds.

I once again urge the Prosecutor General, the National Police Chief, and the President of the NAV to take into custody the criminals who have defrauded the Hungarian people of several thousand billion forints, and not to allow them to flee to countries with no extradition agreements before the TISZA government takes office.

I have also learned that Orbán’s mafia associates have begun selling off the TV2 channel and other media outlets at below-market prices, along with the hundred-billion-forint flagship of Rogán’s hate propaganda machine, the Lounge Event Kft.

I call on honest domestic and foreign investors to refrain from acquiring any assets belonging to this mafia. Anyone who does so risks finding themselves before the National Asset Recovery and Protection Office.

It has also come to my attention that several oligarch families have already left the country, and in the coming days, the Mészáros family is also flying to Dubai. According to reports, many influential oligarch families have already withdrawn their children from school and are organizing reliable security details for their departure.

Extra context on Rogán: He's a billionaire (while not being a businessman, he's lived his entire adult life as a career FIDESZ politician), perhaps the one FIDESZ politician who is most openly living a comically lavish lifestyle; his nickname is "Luxus Tóni" or "Luxury Tony". You can see this through his wife's Instagram.

Rogán Antal is Orban's Richelieu-lite. All the Hungarian Secret Service branches and the state propaganda is (was) under his ministry. He features heavily in MANY what I will for legal reasons call for now conspiracy theories, the Horváth Nancy murder (a prostitute who allegedly was murdered at Rogan's command because she tried blackmailing him), and from the wider Szőlő utca pedophile cinematic universe (where according to certain conspiracy theories there were underage girls regularly pimped out from childcare facilities to a politician eerily matching his description. The pimping out part and the scandal being firmly connected to FIDESZ is already confirmed and not a theory, the politician's exact person is not confirmed.)
 
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There's a clear divide, those who say "Everyone made it out thats a good mission" and those who say "You wasted millions for one guy! Ha!" because they can't comprehend that one pilot is worth multiple aircraft in training alone. Same with Ukraine. The loss of an Abrams or a Leopard 2 sucks but when the crew lives the based Z trad warriors talk about the cost of the machinery and not the crew that made the machine work.
The other thing to consider is that in the volunteer army its double true, but even with a draft on - not everyone is cut out for being a fighter pilot, especially a modern one. It takes a high level of physical and mental fitness, and you don't just leave candidates that have proven themselves for the sand people to find.

It costs more than a hundred million to train one pilot? I don't think that's accurate, though I understand the PR and morale value of a rescue mission like that. It also seems a bit simplistic to say "third worlders don't value human life, unlike Americans" when that money could have been put in healthcare to save many more lives.
First see @dragg 's post.

I had occasion to get familiar with the work of some researchers. When talking with one of the scientists, he told me that he had developed a treatment protocol for an extremely rare pancreas disorder that had a patient count of an estimated 700 global affectees, and had to live with the fact it would never reach any of them.
- First, the protocol had been proven in lab and rat trials but no further. Even if this disorder suddenly became virulent somehow, it would talk the better part of the decade for human trials. No drug company would pick that up for 700 patients.

- Second, even if they had something approved for use in humans, the protocol (which was a mix of vitamins, a specific enzyme-replacement, and then a low-risk surgery to remove some growths from the pancreas.) took about a year and even when we leave off the surgergy, the enzyme replacement had to be small-batch synthesized by hand several times a week for injection, and had to be turned every week by monitoring urine.
It was very likely you could make a refrigerator-stable version to let medical staff tune the dose, and almost certain it could be made into a pill as a similiar enzyme was, but that would take hundreds of millions of dollars, but until that investment was made you would be looking at a couple million dollar treatment.

- third, the disorder affected mostly people in Africa (leading to a likelyhood of an enviromental factor - aka nutrition) and the research concluded: the disorder was about the body not making enough of a specific enzyme. In early life, the body mostly compensated by making more other enzymes or other in-cell processes, and it only manifested in later life by an increased likelyhood of pancreatic cancer as well as a few comorbidities, like increased impact (but not chance) of diabetes, from the pancreas developing non-cancerous tumors (that might turn cancerous).
this all boiled down to a sad truth: it very likely the patients would die of other causes before this pancreatic disorder became a contributing factor let alone a primary factor in their eventual death.

-Fourth, a large factor in estimating patient count (and potentially why it was so high in Africa) was the fact most of the cases were discovered post-mortem via pathologist desriptions of the deceased pancreas. In Africa, the doctors-with-out-borders types would get a patient with no medical records so would have to go into each case nearly completely blind, which meant a lot more CAT scans of things like the pancreas where they could see the non-cancerous lesions. So by checking medical records for people in the west who had died with (but not necessary from) the disorder, and from complaints from the living patients in Africa, they had a rough guideline of what to look for: Diabetes symptoms in excess for blood-sugar, particularly issues with vision and need for removal of digits/limbs.

- Fifth factor was impact. The disorder had a rather mild but noticable effect on quality of life. You'd have out of whack hormones and would have diabetes like symptoms early, as well as a few other issues I forget from a 'weak pancreas'. As long as your pancreas growths didn't go cancerous, it was unlikely to kill you. So, the treatment protocol is filed away in NIH waiting for it become economically viable.


So what this boils down to is when you are told "We need more money for dem medical programs" its not saving hundreds or thousands or lives like you're told.
those programs aren't helping the working poor. They are helping hoodrats and illegals, mostly with dialysis because they let their diabetes get so bad their kidneys failed. And what they want isn't "life saving" dialysis so much as more dialysis becasue they haven't changed their lifestyle an iota.

Most of "we need more medical money!" goes to medical missions to third-world countires because their governments would rather build vanity projects and fund leaders' swiss bank accounts. I don't care about the third world, or illegals.

For the US, medical providers are not allowed to turn away critical patients regardless of ability to pay, and any nation wide medical provider has programs to handle low-income patients.

During the Obamacare drug price increase (to bilk insurance), every drug manufacturer had a patient hotline. If you called them with no insurance and a confirmed prescription (of you had insurence and were being raped by copays), they would basically mail you a coupon for free drugs becasue they didn't want the PR hit of people dying because they sent drug costs to the moon now that the feds were paying whatever they wanted to charge.
My doctor would usually fill my scripts in his office from drug samples sent by Pfizer and the like.


I have said this before and will say it again:
Insane bills are because the hospital has to charge everyone the same rate. Normal people aren't expected to pay those prices, insurance is. Simply asking for the hospital financial aid department and asking for an itemized bill will usually drop your bill 25-35%. There are "needs based" programs with higher income limits than you'd think that will effectively give you grants to reduce you bill for their services. Entering into a payment plan at a non-profit hospital will usually see your debt waved in year or two due to how their bookkeeping works.

edit: Additionally, medical debt is fully dischargeable in bankruptcy. You don't even have to burn your savings to qualify for medical bankruptcy, just show how the medical debt is making cash in too close to your monthly cash out.
I knew a hospital where their financial aid would basically walk people struggling with payments through how to apply for a bankruptcy on thier medical debt because once the person completed the process, the hospital could write down the owed debt.

Or to provide the ultimate tl;dr:
If you put an extra $100 million into the medical system, you are mostly just going to see bonuses to executive salaries and not a lot of lives saved.
I would rather see that spent bringing home a person who volunteered to serve his country (and protect me) than to having Shaquieza or Rosa Gonazalopenunchechavez-asapergos get a 2nd dialysis appointment on the taxpayer dime every week when their only contribution to society was being the mother of 7, all of them dead or jailed.
 
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Bring back the P-51
The Allison engine P-51 were the better ground attack and close air support variant than the later Merlin engine P-51s. Still P-47s Thunderbolts, F4U Corsairs, F6F Hellcats and A-1 Skyraiders are better for ground attack and close air support than the P-51 Mustangs.
 
The Allison engine P-51 were the better ground attack and close air support variant than the later Merlin engine P-51s. Still P-47s Thunderbolts, F4U Corsairs, F6F Hellcats and A-1 Skyraiders are better for ground attack and close air support than the P-51 Mustangs.
So which of the old WW2 fighters would be good as drone interceptor? Spitfires? Or maybe German FW-190's? Because that was the idea of the video: use Piston-engine fighters as a "cheap" way to defend against swarms of drones
 
So which of the old WW2 fighters would be good as drone interceptor? Spitfires? Or maybe German FW-190's? Because that was the idea of the video: use Piston-engine fighters as a "cheap" way to defend against swarms of drones
Seeing how most drones fly at low to medium attitudes and not high speed, you're spoiled for choice. Where you can look at the other vital things like cockpit ergonomics and pilot visibility, as most fighters had even back then had shit visibility for the pilots. Something which can be rectified for new builds as they ain't going to be 100% accurate replicas.
Aircraft armaments is also extremely important as the SMO have been speed running at repeating WWI, Interwar, Spanish Civil and WWII on obsoleting rifles, rifle caliber machineguns, and very soon obsoleting heavy machineguns in the anti-drone, anti-missile role.

Right now P-51s are the best choice as much of the work have already been done to made them ready right now. Personally, I would loved to see as many of old fighters be reborn and flying over Ukraine.
 
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So which of the old WW2 fighters would be good as drone interceptor? Spitfires? Or maybe German FW-190's? Because that was the idea of the video: use Piston-engine fighters as a "cheap" way to defend against swarms of drones
The Bell designs like the Airacobra and King Cobra, as they were optimized for low-mid altitude performance and were unusually maneuverable for their size. They were also the only American planes to mount a propeller cannon, in their case a 37mm that could be easily replaced with the M230L firing VT.

But realistically, none of them since the engines are finnicky, underpowered, and require special aviation-grade fuel compared to a modern turboprop that can run on just about anything from vodka to kerosene to used cooking oil.
 
So which of the old WW2 fighters would be good as drone interceptor? Spitfires? Or maybe German FW-190's? Because that was the idea of the video: use Piston-engine fighters as a "cheap" way to defend against swarms of drones
I want a BF-109. Just because of the sound of the engine.



Oh, the video upload is broken again
 
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