Elden Ring

[Nameless One]

Kingsfield has more convincing NPCs that are pretty static compared to the souls series, for some reason they cut out a lot of the NPCs in levels like Ostrava.


I'll be one to tell you, it's basically fucking Marionette dolls, and they cut out a lot of cool talking animations for the guy who's in the stormveil castle. Now their mouths move, but they're still very static Marionette dolls with a few talking animation cycles or gestures to give you shit.

They're really bad at this, and it's not an engine limitation, in Demon's Souls your first encounter with Ostrava is him killing enemies and you helping him traverse the level a bit. They clearly have code for pathfinding but they are shy about it because it was a little jank. So now most NPCs will just be sitting down until you have to fight them or trigger certain story sequences.

I don't want a walking section but it would be far more interesting and immersive to have NPCs be able to defend themselves if you lure enemies instead of them standing stiff waiting to die. Nioh 1 and 2, inspired by fromsoftware have proper AI, with the option to have them follow you in a handful of levels. I think it would be cool to have something different from the typical multiplayer system of summons and invasions, and have actual criteria or flags with NPCs to be hostile against you on approach unless you're part of their covenant like in DS1 but a little deeper where they can talk to you while following you, take you places, give you extra, maybe even randomized items via drops like a player could, etc. Companion and enemy NPC AI should be overhauled and shouldn't be so static and inconsistent when it comes to the humans in souls. You have bosses that will read your inputs and punish heals but you don't have allies who can detect that you're at low health and need to cast heal spells. You don't have allies or neutral characters that don't have to be summoned, it's like the next logical fucking step after implementing a mount.

These are just glorified developer boxes that trigger audio, starting from DS1 onward. I have no idea why NPCs were omitted like this. Maybe they can't come up with enough sequences to justify more use of that. Bloodborne has maybe a few sections with Eileen, but that game also neuters NPC interactions. Armored Core VI has Ai that can follow and talk to you, to an extent. There's no real excuse for the souls formula to be this way, it's just because fans and ball washers are easily immersed with the decent voice acting.


I like some of their quests despite their heavy use of old fucking tropes, but it is bad design and has needed a lot of work since Demon's Souls. They have not been properly criticized, and will continue their bullshit. Fans are too divided on issues that do need addressing so the formula doesn't stagnate more, which it already has. I wouldn't mind Elden Ring being their last one, I want a focus on pure action games or other genres fromsoftware has neglected.

This wasn't so bad in Demon's Souls because their level design was mostly scaled down, and it's a straightforward path. Some questlines were just made to get more out of the maps they made. And nowadays with larger levels, it can't really be justified for why there's so many empty and useless spaces in the games with zero questlines around them. And just zipping to one location after you talk to a guy doesn't help at all. You'll go revisit some bumfuck locale you don't give a shit about, just to talk to a person, then go to another area that serves no purpose other than talking to get them to move, rinse and repeat.

It was a lot better in DES, Bloodborne and DS3 because of their similar game design philosophy. You got a lot of EXTRA content for like replay value, for a relatively short game. With longer games or larger scaled worlds, even DS1 it just becomes frustrating in how questlines are handled. Ds1 gets a bit of a pass for me since I love all of the characters but there's a lot of empty and useless areas like in ER and somewhat DS2.

Learning how DS1, DS2, and Elden Ring originally had a lot more interconnected paths likely explains why there's so many useless or purposeless dead ends to areas that are pretty important. Like, DS1 had a fuck ton of extra back paths especially around blighttown cut from it likely cause of the limits of the PS3 and 360.
Elden ring also had extra tunnels or paths that originally led or bridges the gap between major and minor areas. These changes are usually hinted at with broken levers and simple walled off gates and such. Reaching a dead end feels a lot different in them, it feels really disappointing. It's like "is that all there is? Some shitty crafting resource at the end of this crevice? " And then you learn it was gonna lead into another area. There are still some areas in DS3 that disappointed me a lot, cause the levels are large but they go fucking nowhere compared to DS1.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

I see you've come here, bleeding from the ass from the Pragmata thread.
Well, put a cork in your faggot bleeding ass and form some proper sentences, if you wish to engage in conversation.
I've said why I believe it's dogshit design. Care to rebuttal or will you continue being an autistic faggot?

Nigga my entire point in that thread is that the future of gaming content will be tainted by bad actors, your acting like I defended or even liked that stupid overpriced game, I didn't lose shit in terms of discussion, I don't care if people didn't understand my point, that's on them.

and I'm going to Defend FROM because they are my patron developer, period, its pure nepotism, I wash over anything bad they do because I swore fealty, nothing more, fuck off my company, they make games for me, and only me.

 

[Estate]

Nigga my entire point in that thread is that the future of gaming content will be tainted by bad actors, your acting like I defended or even liked that stupid overpriced game, I didn't lose shit in terms of discussion, I don't care if people didn't understand my point, that's on them.

and I'm going to Defend FROM because they are my patron developer, period, its pure nepotism, I wash over anything bad they do because I swore fealty, nothing more, fuck off my company, they make games for me, and only me.

So, you love the company/game so much, you decided to shit up the thread with offtopic discussion because you're asshurt and bleed profusely from the ass.

Even after I waved away your initial autism and invited you to be ontopic, you doubled down with more autistic ramblings.

Sad, pathetic, couldn't be me.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

So, you love the company/game so much, you decided to shit up the thread with offtopic discussion because you're asshurt and bleed profusely from the ass.

Even after I waved away your initial autism and invited you to be ontopic, you doubled down with more autistic ramblings.

Sad, pathetic, couldn't be me.

Yes its really that simple, I have always loved FROM Software since Armored Core and King's Field 2, I was their loyal fan and my reward was that they became a global sensation, and also my curse in that now, faggots like you play their games and think their opinion really matters.

 

[Estate]

Yes its really that simple, I have always loved FROM Software since Armored Core and King's Field 2, I was their loyal fan and my reward was that they became a global sensation, and also my curse in that now, faggots like you play their games and think their opinion really matters.

Got it.
Your argument for why this game does have bad game design when it comes to quests is because you suffer from crippling autism and a burning desire to deepthroat fromsoft employees, from the top on down.
Very convincing.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Got it.
Your argument for why this game doesn't have bad game design when it comes to quests is because you suffer from crippling autism and a burning desire to deepthroat fromsoft employees, from the top on down.
Very convincing.

Oh they do, I just don't care if they have things I don't like.

 

[Nameless One]

Nigga my entire point in that thread is that the future of gaming content will be tainted by bad actors, your acting like I defended or even liked that stupid overpriced game, I didn't lose shit in terms of discussion, I don't care if people didn't understand my point, that's on them.

and I'm going to Defend FROM because they are my patron developer, period, its pure nepotism, I wash over anything bad they do because I swore fealty, nothing more, fuck off my company, they make games for me, and only me.

So you're just a mindless fucking consumer who will go to bat for bad practices or bad development processes that are gonna make your developer stop being so good?

You remind me of the Obsidian/Bungie old guard.

Ironic, because if anything I was under the impression fans loved this shit for the quality, a lot of aspects to it all, not the company itself. You know, the special sauce. The sauce that fromsoftware are actively losing by focusing on multiplayer switch 2 focused gimmick game after an already polarizing Night reign that the pigs came to eat anyways... and making their core audience wait so long for the next actual project for? Armored Core used to be almost a yearly staple, and at least a new generation every few years or less.

It's good to know at least you're honest about it compared to other troglodytes. You have no opinion, no criticism against your senpai company, and yet you claim to be on their favor? Liking shit, especially game companies also includes the capacity for a critical look at it. You don't have to agree with everything but it makes me wonder what you even like about them? You're okay with fromsoftware being so repetitive? Their artistry held back for formulaic game trends, staying safe, etc? They used to be a lot more experimental and at least varied in the 90s and 2000s.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Let's be honest, there's no real lore. It's just tidbits of information that sound cool, that vaguely refence something else.

ER reminds me of Dark Souls 2, where the entire context to why you are doing anything is seemingly hidden from the player and even once you know about it the only thing that you can say is "neat". There isn't anything that ties the plot together, every heir to the gods is some bizarre lego genetics without any connection. There are at least three different kinds of corruption (death, insanity, blight).

From Software games used to have good level design so just from how things look you could guess a lot about the world, but in ER they doubled down on making items the only source of lore while quests and level design was shit for 99% of the game.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Ironic, because if anything I was under the impression fans loved this shit for the quality, a lot of aspects to it all, not the company itself. You know, the special sauce. The sauce that fromsoftware are actively losing by focusing on multiplayer switch 2 focused gimmick game after an already polarizing Night reign that the pigs came to eat anyways... and making their core audience wait so long for the next actual project for? Armored Core used to be almost a yearly staple, and at least a new generation every few years or less.

It's good to know at least you're honest about it compared to other troglodytes. You have no opinion, no criticism against your senpai company, and yet you claim to be on their favor? Liking shit, especially game companies also includes the capacity for a critical look at it. You don't have to agree with everything but it makes me wonder what you even like about them? You're okay with fromsoftware being so repetitive? Their artistry held back for formulaic game trends, staying safe, etc? They used to be a lot more experimental and at least varied in the 90s and 2000s.

I've played every game they've ever made that I can find a Rom for or buy, I just like the things they make, which are generally "Sims" of some kind, dungeon crawling sim, mech building sim, and Ninja Sim, they've really not done much changing, multiplayer hasn't done anything to change my opinion on them.

Sure, DS2 isn't as good as the other games, it didn't matter, I had plenty of fun with that flawed game, I am fully capable of understanding and acknowledging the flaws. I just have ZERO desire to scream and bitch and demean a company that has given me thousands of hours of entertainment and has catered to my exact likes for the entirety of my life.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

ER reminds me of Dark Souls 2, where the entire context to why you are doing anything is seemingly hidden from the player

Nigga they tell you the entire premise in the OPENING FUCKING MONOLOGUE, the Elden Ring is shattered, the Gods are warring, weirdos are given grace, and you have to become the next Elden Lord.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Nigga they tell you the entire premise in the OPENING FUCKING MONOLOGUE, the Elden Ring is shattered, the Gods are warring, weirdos are given grace, and you have to become the next Elden Lord.

They drop a ton of info on you without context. What are the runes, why is there a civil war, what's at stake and what do I, the player, have to gain?

Seemingly simple questions that you don't need a 2 hour video explanation in previous games.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

They drop a ton of info on you without context. What are the runes, why is there a civil war, what's at stake and what do I, the player, have to gain?

Seemingly simple questions that you don't need a 2 hour video explanation in previous games.

that's the draw of the story, you don't know, you are supposed to find this out in game, and you can, easily, Gideon tells you a huge chunk, as does Rani, Melina and Hewg, the Elden Ring itself is such a mystery that even the Demi-Gods do not know its origin, and you don't either till the DLC, its simply the result of completed The Great Work of alchemy.

nothing about Elden ring is very vague, all the major story beats are easy to run into, Gideon and Rani and Hewg aren't hidden, Gideon's fight speech gives away the motive.

and YOU decide what you have to gain, depending on who you back.

 

[Estate]

that's the draw of the story, you don't know, you are supposed to find this out in game, and you can, easily, Gideon tells you a huge chunk, as does Rani, Melina and Hewg, the Elden Ring itself is such a mystery that even the Demi-Gods do not know its origin, and you don't either till the DLC, its simply the result of completed The Great Work of alchemy.

nothing about Elden ring is very vague, all the major story beats are easy to run into, Gideon and Rani and Hewg aren't hidden, Gideon's fight speech gives away the motive.

and YOU decide what you have to gain, depending on who you back.

Really now? Riddle me this.

Why did Godwyn have to die?
Who started the whole shenanigans, Marika or Ranni? By this, I mean who masterminded the Night of Black Knives that led to the war and downfall

Lets start with these.

 

[Forgive Me Im Retarded]

Really now? Riddle me this.

Why did Godwyn have to die?
Who started the whole shenanigans, Marika or Ranni?

Lets start with these.

Marika started it before ranni was born technically.

Godwyn died in spirit but not body, Ranni died in body not spirit, their deaths were part of a specific ritual so that Ranni could bypass the Golden Order and the two fingers to start her own age. So he was essentially collateral to get to Ranni’s goals.

 

[Estate]

Marika started it before ranni was born technically.

Godwyn died in spirit but not body, Ranni died in body not spirit, their deaths were part of a specific ritual so that Ranni could bypass the Golden Order and the two fingers to start her own age. So he was essentially collateral to get to Ranni’s goals.

Why did Godwyn specifically? Just a flip of the coin? Are we to believe the entire conspiration picked a target at random?

When I said started, I was referring to the catalist that led to the civil wars and decline. Sorry, Ill edit my post to be more specific.

So, lets clarify further my question and lets begin from there.

 

[Nameless One]

Why did Godwyn specifically? Just a flip of the coin? Are we to believe the entire conspiration picked a target at random?

When I said started, I was referring to the catalist that led to the civil wars and decline. Sorry, Ill edit my post to be more specific.

So, lets clarify further my question and lets begin from there.

It was mostly spontaneous. From my limited knowledge and forgotten knowledge, the order was always destined to fall. The long knives event with Godwyn was just in motion.


The mastermind however was Marika, I think. Overall, evil fuckin bitch. And the twist is she plays two roles, both a man and a woman. Her cover story is that she did the best she could, but then you see what she came from in the DLC and what she abandoned. Nothing good really comes from a fucked up Pagan tribe.

It's like GOT though where there's multiple malevolent parties involved for the why and how.

 

[Forgive Me Im Retarded]

Why did Godwyn specifically? Just a flip of the coin? Are we to believe the entire conspiration picked a target at random?

When I said started, I was referring to the catalist that led to the civil wars and decline. Sorry, Ill edit my post to be more specific.

So, lets clarify further my question and lets begin from there.

Good question. It could have been timing, we’re not certain on the exact timelines or lifespans of any of the Demi-gods. So it could have been that this was before marika got together with Radagon, and Godwyns brothers were omens, and Ranni had loyalties to her brothers instead.

Or it could have been opportunity? Perhaps Miquella and Melania were less viable? Or again timing in that Miquella had already left, and marika was basically half dead already?

As to how the civil war started, I thought it was because Marika shattered the elden ring to begin with (to seal death) and was punished by the great divine? Then technically the position for a new divine order was open if marika could be replaced (end goal of the story, age of stars, age of dusk, etc), and Ranni effectively killing godwyn to set herself up appropriately escalated the stakes?


I don’t mean to come in like a douche, I’m trying to remember half forgotten lore, and I do think some of it is up to interpretation

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Why did Godwyn specifically? Just a flip of the coin? Are we to believe the entire conspiration picked a target at random?

When I said started, I was referring to the catalist that led to the civil wars and decline. Sorry, Ill edit my post to be more specific.

So, lets clarify further my question and lets begin from there.

MARIKA she chose him because he could have EASILY won the Demi-God war, among other reasons.

her and Ranni conspired the whole thing, they both hated the Greater Will, and Marika hated generally fucking everyone and everything and set up the entire events of the game so that everyone would fight over the big seat, FOREVER, out of pure malice.

That is the twist of the game, Marika is an angry, hateful God, who became God so she could ruin everything for everyone, out of spite from her youth's horror, MIquella is supposed to be the diametric opposite, they do horrible things because they love everyone and want everyone to be loved and taken care of.. by force.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

It was mostly spontaneous. From my limited knowledge and forgotten knowledge, the order was always destined to fall. The long knives event with Godwyn was just in motion.


The mastermind however was Marika, I think. Overall, evil fuckin bitch. And the twist is she plays two roles, both a man and a woman. Her cover story is that she did the best she could, but then you see what she came from in the DLC and what she abandoned. Nothing good really comes from a fucked up Pagan tribe.

It's like GOT though where there's multiple malevolent parties involved for the why and how.

Sort of, Marika isn't just "playing" two roles, Radagon is an entirely seperate being she made or fused with, to create the Alchemic Divine Hermaphrodite, which is core to acheiving True Gold and becoming a God, True Gold is the Elden Ring.




Radagon was a true believer in their little religion, and Marika wasn't... we see this attempt at godhood play out again with Miquella trying to be the Platinum White Queen to Radhan's Sulfur Red King and acheive the same godhood goal ends.

 

[Estate]

It was mostly spontaneous. From my limited knowledge and forgotten knowledge, the order was always destined to fall. The long knives event with Godwyn was just in motion.

It was not a crime of passion, it was a plan put forth in motion. To believe it to be spontaneous is folly.

The mastermind however was Marika, I think.

The premise of this discussion is that everything is clear cut. "I think" is guesswork.

Good question. It could have been timing, we’re not certain on the exact timelines or lifespans of any of the Demi-gods. So it could have been that this was before marika got together with Radagon, and Godwyns brothers were omens, and Ranni had loyalties to her brothers instead.

Or it could have been opportunity? Perhaps Miquella and Melania were less viable? Or again timing in that Miquella had already left, and marika was basically half dead already?

Well, according to @Zenos Yae Viator everything about the lore is clear. Your answer tells me it's everything but
Still, good effort.

As to how the civil war started, I thought it was because Marika shattered the elden ring to begin with (to seal death) and was punished by the great divine? Then technically the position for a new divine order was open if marika could be replaced (end goal of the story, age of stars, age of dusk, etc), and Ranni effectively killing godwyn to set herself up appropriately escalated the stakes?

Real carefully my question. It's who started not how started. Feel free to update your answer.

I don’t mean to come in like a douche, I’m trying to remember half forgotten lore, and I do think some of it is up to interpretation

Yes, that is my point, but the other user claimed it's not the case, so I simply challenged him.

MARIKA she chose him because he could have EASILY won the Demi-God war, among other reasons.

Based on what?
According to lore, Radahn was the mightiest, and Malenia never lost in battle.

And on this topic, why be a war in the first place? We have several lore pieces that inform us that the demigods were friendly between each other, some even cooperating on various things, and we have 0 evidence of there being bad blood.
There's no reason for the war to start, besides the plot needing it.

her and Ranni conspired the whole thing, they both hated the Greater Will, and Marika hated generally fucking everyone and everything and set up the entire events of the game so that everyone would fight over the big seat, FOREVER, out of pure malice.

So, mother and sister conspired to kill what was arguably the most beloved demigod.
Ranni had motivation to escape the Greater Will, but why not choose another demigod?
And Marika, why choose Ranni? There were other empyreans, so why Ranni specifically?
Also, if Marika hated everyone, why set in motion events that would lead to freedom? Why not simply let the world be enslaved is she was such a cunt? Why not simply give the ring to Dung Eater so he can fuck everyone and the next generation into oblivion?

That is the twist of the game, Marika is an angry, hateful God, who became God so she could ruin everything for everyone, out of spite from her youth's horror, MIquella is supposed to be the diametric opposite, they do horrible things because they love everyone and want everyone to be loved and taken care of.. by force.

Not my question. Don't go on tangents.