Validity of Australian government in doubt - Dual citizenship clusterfuck continues

It's been quite the week in Australian politics.

As I type, there are currently 7 members of the Australian Parliament whose eligibility to be elected to Parliament is in doubt. 3 of them belong to the coalition which currently holds government by a one seat margin.

What has created the problem is a clause in our Constitution (Section 44) which disqualifies dual nationals or those otherwise entitled to the rights of a subject or citizen of a foreign power from being elected to the Senate or the House.

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The matter has been referred to the High Court, but they are not due to hand down a decision until December - leaving the legitimacy of the current Parliament in question for the next few months. The clusterfuck doesn't even end there, as New Zealand has changed their laws in a manner which can be argued to provide all Australian citizens with the rights and privileges of an NZ citizen/subject.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...srupter?cx_navSource=related-side-cx#cxrecs_s
 
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repentance said:
The matter has been referred to the High Court, but they are not due to hand down a decision until December - leaving the legitimacy of the current Parliament in question for the next few months. The clusterfuck doesn't even end there, as New Zealand has changed their laws in a manner which can be argued to provide all Australian citizens with the rights and privileges of an NZ citizen/subject.
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So these spastics decided they can let other countries decide who can serve in their Parliament.

Great job guys.
 
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AnOminous said:
So these spastics decided they can let other countries decide who can serve in their Parliament.

Great job guys.
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Unintended consequences and all that.

It's a huge mess, though, and whatever decision the High Court hands down will only provide short-term clarity. The electorate isn't in the mood for another federal election (the GG could use his reserve powers to dissolve the Parliament) or a Constitutional amendment at the moment, either.

The High Court needs to be decisive, though. Them taking the approach of "it's an issue for another day" in the past is part of the reason we ended up here.

What should really happen is Parliament being prorogued until the High Court ruling and the current government being restricted to caretaker mode, but that's it's own nightmare option.
 
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lmao our government is full of dual-citizens for our greatest ally. Mostly D's but R's will still fall on their sword for them.

Past and Present:

1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
34. Federal Reserve Chair – Janet Yellen
35. Federal Reserve Vice-Chair – Stanley Fischer

Current (and past) Members of Senate:



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Former) (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)


House of Representatives (or lower chamber of the United States Congress):



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Alan Grayson (Florida Alan Mark Grayson (born March 13, 1958) is an American politician who was the United States Representative for Florida’s 9th congressional district and a member of the Democratic Party. The United States House of Representatives is the lower chamber of the United States Congress which, along with the Senate, composes the legislature of the United States.)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)
 
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repentance said:
The High Court needs to be decisive, though. Them taking the approach of "it's an issue for another day" in the past is part of the reason we ended up here.
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The absurd stupidity of a ruling that other countries could effectively just get rid of your government by doing nothing more than declaring all Australian citizens citizens of their country too is obvious nonsense.

The U.S. government doesn't formally recognize dual citizenship as such, and only lets you disqualify yourself from citizenship by adopting dual citizenship when that was clearly the intent or effect of adopting dual citizenship. Specifically, Afroyim v. Rusk stands for that proposition. A very few things, like serving in the government of a foreign state, might accomplish this, but it has to be explicit or unambiguous.

The Jewish thing is particularly intriguing, because anyone with the right of return, i.e. even fairly remote claims of Jewish ancestry, like tons of Russian "Jews" who really aren't but can move to Israel, would also be disqualified under such a rule. A number of countries (Poland and Ireland among them) also have fairly similar rules for right to birthright citizenship from sometimes remote ancestry.

The court should probably, if they have any sense, adopt something similar to the Afroyim rule, or at the very least, permit those with dual citizenship claims to renounce the foreign citizenship, regardless of whether the foreign country allows that.
 
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AnOminous said:
The court should probably, if they have any sense, adopt something similar to the Afroyim rule, or at the very least, permit those with dual citizenship claims to renounce the foreign citizenship, regardless of whether the foreign country allows that.
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We sort of have this. Plenty of politicians with dual citizenship have renounced their foreign citizenship before running, and that creates no issues. Some weird situations are in play here, such as citizenship by descent of former British colonies. I have no idea why it is not a function of the Electoral Commission to check for these kinds of conflicts before candidates can run, but here we are.

The Court is hearing the matter in its role of Court of Disputed Returns. However they rule on Section 44 is going to piss people off, but I don't think anyone wants them to rule in a purely expedient manner. Clarity is more important than a decision which would avoid immediate disruption, especially when there are already concerns that the government is operating beyond its constitutional powers.
 
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TheProdigalStunna said:
lmao our government is full of dual-citizens for our greatest ally. Mostly D's but R's will still fall on their sword for them.

Past and Present:

1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
34. Federal Reserve Chair – Janet Yellen
35. Federal Reserve Vice-Chair – Stanley Fischer

Current (and past) Members of Senate:



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Former) (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)

House of Representatives (or lower chamber of the United States Congress):



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Alan Grayson (Florida Alan Mark Grayson (born March 13, 1958) is an American politician who was the United States Representative for Florida’s 9th congressional district and a member of the Democratic Party. The United States House of Representatives is the lower chamber of the United States Congress which, along with the Senate, composes the legislature of the United States.)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)
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Thankfully our Jews are limited to certain, wealthy (of course) areas. We've also gone the fake concern route to stop them from building more synagogues. But we're not stemming the flow of building mosques and more or less rehearsing sharia law for them. Unsurprisingly.
So I don't know, Jews annoy me with their jewness, but the 3rd world filth of Islamic countries who are allergic to having a shower it seems, annoys me more.

Which is exactly why we need to get on top of this dual citizenship stuff - it's screechy and annoying now, but it will save a lot of headaches for the future, since they're basically running an express population line from India to here. They're already invading every facet of local government. It also has the added benefit of fooling your average white SJW who is like "GOOD! SCREW WHITEY", when in actuality it's preventing their pet POCs from having future gov seats and ability to abscond easily should anything go wrong. Or whatever. Maybe my thinking on this is too "Boltesque".
 
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repentance said:
Unintended consequences and all that.

It's a huge mess, though, and whatever decision the High Court hands down will only provide short-term clarity. The electorate isn't in the mood for another federal election (the GG could use his reserve powers to dissolve the Parliament) or a Constitutional amendment at the moment, either.

The High Court needs to be decisive, though. Them taking the approach of "it's an issue for another day" in the past is part of the reason we ended up here.

What should really happen is Parliament being prorogued until the High Court ruling and the current government being restricted to caretaker mode, but that's it's own nightmare option.
Click to expand...

The Governor General may well have to step in. If we had a functioning federal government to begin with this would still be a crisis, but we didn't and now it's a full blown disaster. Some things did scrape through, but they were all cuts forced through with all the grace and finesse of force feeding a snake.

A permanently hung parliament is bad enough, but this is effectively paralysis. Even if the GG opts not to step in, we're in for a snap election anyway. There is absolutely no choice in the matter. Even if the dual citizenships were temporarily waved or else replaced by backbenchers, the entire legality of the last election would be under serious threat as the dual citizen candidates were effectively backed by their party under false pretenses.

On the other hand, the world political climate right now is terrifying, and a country without a government could be considered provocative, for lack of a better word.

This is some serious bullshit. All candidates should be vetted before they start campaigning, and citizenship should be the very first thing legally confirmed. Going back two or three decades this furor wouldn't have been nearly as dramatic as we were still very close politically with Britain, but even allowing for the fact that we're constitutional monarchies in the Commonwealth, we have a considerable amount of distance between us now. I grant you that a dual British Australian citizenship by default is very common and easily forgotten, but fuck's sake, isn't this important shit to know if you want to go into politics? How can you expect someone to uphold the constitution if the constitution says that they can't?
 
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TheProdigalStunna said:
lmao our government is full of dual-citizens for our greatest ally. Mostly D's but R's will still fall on their sword for them.

Past and Present:

1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
34. Federal Reserve Chair – Janet Yellen
35. Federal Reserve Vice-Chair – Stanley Fischer

Current (and past) Members of Senate:



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Former) (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)

House of Representatives (or lower chamber of the United States Congress):



  • Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
  • Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
  • Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
  • Representative Howard Berman (California)
  • Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
  • Representative Susan Davis (California)
  • Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
  • Representative Bob Filner (California)
  • Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
  • Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
  • Representative Alan Grayson (Florida Alan Mark Grayson (born March 13, 1958) is an American politician who was the United States Representative for Florida’s 9th congressional district and a member of the Democratic Party. The United States House of Representatives is the lower chamber of the United States Congress which, along with the Senate, composes the legislature of the United States.)
  • Representative Jane Harman (California)
  • Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
  • Representative Steve Israel (New York)
  • Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
  • Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
  • Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
  • Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
  • Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
  • Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
  • Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
  • Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
  • Representative Adam Schiff (California)
  • Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
  • Representative Brad Sherman (California)
  • Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
  • Representative Henry Waxman (California)
  • Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
  • Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)
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Yup. Now about Aussieland?
 
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