Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

[I'm Just A Human Bean]

Ever notice how enbie tends to be synonymous with feminine?

I know you noticed, but I'll just go ahead and make sure you notice it again.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

I'm nonbinary, and that means I'm a female that identifies as female and presents in a feminine way, can I join the speshul trans club now?

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Four years ago enbies dressed the way trans men (on tumblr, anyway) dress now, and trans men actually tried to pass. People complained about how the popular image of 'non-binary' was someone with short hair and a binder and a button down. But it's not like that anymore.

This is a kid I was very slightly acquainted with back in the day. (Left is March 2013, right is last month). Dropped out of university to go to hairdressing school. Loves makeup. But still genderqueer, still Alex and not Anna, still they/them. Why still genderqueer...well, I don't know. But I think they exemplify how the 'rules' of being non-binary have changed.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

Why still genderqueer...well, I don't know.

Oppression points and thus more control over others. Use these pronouns, call me this name, don't mention these triggering words etc.

 

[LtCucumber]

Ever notice how enbie tends to be synonymous with feminine?
View attachment 292693
I know you noticed, but I'll just go ahead and make sure you notice it again.

I legit only know of one nonbinary person that tries to look androgynous.

Then again there's even "trans men" who try so hard to look like girls now. Even people who think it's "cissexist" or "transphobic" to want to transition (aka people screaming "but penises aren't inherently male and it's transphobic if you think so") or even pass. We're all going in circles here holy shit

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Oh boy, this chick I just found: https://auauautistique.tumblr.com
She's Muslim. She's non-binary. She's autistic. She's bipolar. She's a multiple system. She wears a niqab every day. Because she's too autistic to be comfortable letting other people see her facial expressions. I honestly cannot tell if this girl is a troll or not. She has a lot of selfies, but she's just so over the top.

edit: and her mom is Jewish, which means she's also Jewish. I am even more skeptical.

 

[LtCucumber]

Oh boy, this chick I just found: https://auauautistique.tumblr.com
She's Muslim. She's non-binary. She's autistic. She's bipolar. She's a multiple system. She wears a niqab every day. Because she's too autistic to be comfortable letting other people see her facial expressions. I honestly cannot tell if this girl is a troll or not. She has a lot of selfies, but she's just so over the top.

edit: and her mom is Jewish, which means she's also Jewish. I am even more skeptical.

I'd say "at least she's admitting she's an autist" but the most likely scenario is that she's self diagnosed; aka a really really special kind of stupid.

 

[Synthesizer Patel]

That does remind me that there was a fad of "supporting non-binary muslims who wear hijabs/etc". You know, fighting the real issues in Islam, like assuming that people who wear the hijab must be women.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I'm still not convinced auauaustique isn't a troll, but anyway, she posted a picture of a little bit of her hair outside of her hijab with a caption saying women and non-binary people could message her to see the full color. Now, hm, why would you put non-binary people in with women instead of with men? Maybe it's because the vast majority of them are female bodied female presenting individuals who don't take hormones?

 

[Synthesizer Patel]

Now, hm, why would you put non-binary people in with women instead of with men? Maybe it's because the vast majority of them are female bodied female presenting individuals who don't take hormones?

This seems to happen a lot, women and "non-binary" getting lumped in together. And it seems that, to be sufficiently progressive, you have to allow "non-binaries" into women's only (safe) spaces.

I guess it was the natural next step along from "if they identify as a woman, then they belong in women's spaces". So the opinion is, apparently, that "if they don't identify as a man, they should be allowed".

Honestly though, I agree that most (at least, most that I encounter) are girls or women, and most of those don't bother to look or act androgynous in any way.

My guess is: they wanted to be trans, but were female, and didn't want to be a gross man, so settled on non-binary. And then realised that they had effectively kicked themselves out of women's spaces, or weren't allowed to complain about misogyny, or whatever. So pretty quickly they backpedalled, keeping that sweet sweet trans status, while still being allowed in women's spaces. And they experience misogyny due to being misgendered, so are still allowed to talk on women's issues. As another bonus, they didn't have to bother trying to not look like women.

I did a quick google for "non binary in women's spaces" and found basically the same article written four or five times by various "non-binary femmes" insisting that they were totally still allowed to be included along with women (but don't you dare call them female).

It’s not as though I don’t like women, or being around them. It’s just that I am not one of them; I identify as non-binary. My presentation is very feminine — I wear lots of makeup, have a lob cut, and don’t bind — so I understand why most people don’t even think to ask about my preferred pronouns.

No transition necessary!

So if you're a bloke and you want to get into women's-only spaces, you may not even need to bother any more with calling yourself Shirley and throwing on a skirt. Just say that you're non-binary (they/them) and talk about how you want a safe space away from the icky men, and how dare they bring up your full beard and muscle vest as though it's some kind of barrier.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I really dislike 'women and non-binaries', or even worse 'women and femmes'. And then they whine about how everyone is addressed as 'ladies'. Listen, lady, if you wanna be in a space designed for women, people will assume you are a woman. Arguably, it would be offensive to assume otherwise.

This is an article by a non-binary about how they didn't like being told they couln't go to lesbian events anymore because they're non-binary, and how much misogyny they've faced and blah blah etc. Sorry, sweetheart, but your movement is responsible for this. Your movement says anything that happened before transition doesn't matter, that socialization isn't real, that biology isn't real. You can't have it both ways.

 

[LtCucumber]

I really dislike 'women and non-binaries', or even worse 'women and femmes'. And then they whine about how everyone is addressed as 'ladies'. Listen, lady, if you wanna be in a space designed for women, people will assume you are a woman. Arguably, it would be offensive to assume otherwise.

This is an article by a non-binary about how they didn't like being told they couln't go to lesbian events anymore because they're non-binary, and how much misogyny they've faced and blah blah etc. Sorry, sweetheart, but your movement is responsible for this. Your movement says anything that happened before transition doesn't matter, that socialization isn't real, that biology isn't real. You can't have it both ways.

If she says she isn't a woman, she shouldn't be forcing herself into woman-only spaces, from what I read it seems like it's for women-identifing folk.

The "I'm not a boy though" is not an excuse. She's apparently not a woman either, and it seems like she wants to be part of a space for women alone, so can she just shut the fuck up. There's probably a lot of spaces for nonbinary-identifying people, but I'm guessing she's one of those people that's too lazy to figure it out.

 

[autista]

Is there a thread on hijabi troons (who are all white by the way) and enbies yet because if not, there should be

 

[FrickleMyPickle]

This is an article by a non-binary about how they didn't like being told they couln't go to lesbian events anymore because they're non-binary, and how much misogyny they've faced and blah blah etc. Sorry, sweetheart, but your movement is responsible for this. Your movement says anything that happened before transition doesn't matter, that socialization isn't real, that biology isn't real. You can't have it both ways.

The movement did exactly what it should have done and what it was supposed to do -- they don't consider themselves a woman, so they're not. Cool, cool. No access to women's only spaces, no "femmes only" parties, no big deal. Time to find a new space and some new parties.

The places this person is talking about are the ones that are specifically strict on "women only." If you're not a woman, why would you even feel comfortable there? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

By the way, if you see the word 'femme' and it's not in a passage talking about 1950s lesbian culture, be on the lookout for bad, bad gender politics. This Autostraddle article will show you why.

 

[Dysnomia]

Oh boy, this chick I just found: https://auauautistique.tumblr.com
She's Muslim. She's non-binary. She's autistic. She's bipolar. She's a multiple system. She wears a niqab every day. Because she's too autistic to be comfortable letting other people see her facial expressions. I honestly cannot tell if this girl is a troll or not. She has a lot of selfies, but she's just so over the top.

edit: and her mom is Jewish, which means she's also Jewish. I am even more skeptical.

Are her pronouns "zer" or is that just the Zenith alter's?

I'm wondering if being Muslim is an alter and she decided to make it extra exceptional by giving the Muslim alter a Jewish mother. So is her father Muslim or did she convert? It seems really bizarre. I'm sure it happens. But considering the animosity between the two religions it can't be all that common. Both sides of the family must be livid.

She's hitting all the right virtue signalling buttons. At this point all she needs is a cane or wheelchair and she'd be absolutely perfect.

Here's some info about her alters:

So right away there's a problem. Pete and Gabe are guys. I'm assuming Ezra is too because it's a boy's name even though it says Ezra likes being feminine. Muslims don't really take to gender bending in general. Having male alters would be similar to being trans in their eyes wouldn't it? Sounds haram to me.

Plus Zenith seems to be like a matryoshka alter. An alter that has her own alters. But the above pic of "Zenith" shows her in full niqab. So she has a male alter but is also Muslim? Does she suddenly turn into Nelson sometimes to front? Wouldn't that make this girl act like a man in woman's clothing?

This is probably not a troll. But most likely someone trying to be as snowflakey as possible to win all the virtue signalling points. Probably because they don't get enough attention. I'm not sure if I even buy her being Muslim. Especially due to having a Jewish mother.

 

[LtCucumber]

By the way, if you see the word 'femme' and it's not in a passage talking about 1950s lesbian culture, be on the lookout for bad, bad gender politics. This Autostraddle article will show you why.

Whenever a nonbinary person says they're "femme" it seems a lot like they want the oppression points that comes with being nonbinary, but they also want to be a part of spaces for "woman-identifying" people, despite being the sort of person to scream "I'M NOT A WOMAN RRRREEEEEEeeE" if someone refers to them as "miss" at starbucks.

Spoiler: in other words

lots and lots of :autism:

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Some more observations on 'femme'.
There are some people who think of 'femme' as being a description, not a gender in and of itself--they still consider themselves women. However, these people and femme-as-a-gender people are functionally the same. (Excluding the few who are male-bodied, but they're all either basic tranzs or basic twinks-with-too-much-dark-lipstick.) Now some ordinary lesbians who just like dresses n shit call themselves 'femme' too, but I'm not talking about them.

Femme is the only non-binary identity that explicitly describes presentation, but femmes usually have a specific look that isn't just feminine. It's not 'sorority girl who happens to be a lesbian', and it's not the pixie-cut-flannel-and-eyeliner enby set either. It's what you think of when you think of a tumblr feminist. The danger hair, the danger glasses, the very in your face clothes, the very in your face makeup.

They're not teenagers; a lot of them have graduated from college. Instead of writing bullshit on tumblr, they get paid to write bullshit on everydayfeminism/autostraddle/xojane/etc.

They're more likely to be fat. I have a theory as to why. A skinny or regular size girl still looks okay if she's not wearing makeup or form-fitting clothing. A fat girl...not so much. She needs the help from the makeup, and loud clothes distract from lumpiness.

 

[Dysnomia]

Some more observations on 'femme'.
There are some people who think of 'femme' as being a description, not a gender in and of itself--they still consider themselves women. However, these people and femme-as-a-gender people are functionally the same. (Excluding the few who are male-bodied, but they're all either basic tranzs or basic twinks-with-too-much-dark-lipstick.) Now some ordinary lesbians who just like dresses n shit call themselves 'femme' too, but I'm not talking about them.

Femme is the only non-binary identity that explicitly describes presentation, but femmes usually have a specific look that isn't just feminine. It's not 'sorority girl who happens to be a lesbian', and it's not the pixie-cut-flannel-and-eyeliner enby set either. It's what you think of when you think of a tumblr feminist. The danger hair, the danger glasses, the very in your face clothes, the very in your face makeup.

They're not teenagers; a lot of them have graduated from college. Instead of writing bullshit on tumblr, they get paid to write bullshit on everydayfeminism/autostraddle/xojane/etc.

They're more likely to be fat. I have a theory as to why. A skinny or regular size girl still looks okay if she's not wearing makeup or form-fitting clothing. A fat girl...not so much. She needs the help from the makeup, and loud clothes distract from lumpiness.

I have heard many times that fatties choose loud clothing and makeup to distract from the weight and make them stand out as more than lumps of flesh. But when you add too many loud looks to one outfit it just looks hideous. But since the asspat machine moves in perpetual motion they are 100% convinced they are gorgeous.

 

[Meowthkip]

The movement did exactly what it should have done and what it was supposed to do -- they don't consider themselves a woman, so they're not. Cool, cool. No access to women's only spaces, no "femmes only" parties, no big deal. Time to find a new space and some new parties.

The places this person is talking about are the ones that are specifically strict on "women only." If you're not a woman, why would you even feel comfortable there? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Spoiler

Because they're a woman.