Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[Hanamura]

Relevant news to the topic of this thread: Ohio apparently passed a bill that bans the abortion of fetuses with down syndrome. What a great idea, forcing people who aren't equipped enough to deal with a child with disabilities to have them anyway. Definitely won't end in disaster for any of the parties involved, be it the parents or child.

 

[kaiwaii]

Relevant news to the topic of this thread: Ohio apparently passed a bill that bans the abortion of fetuses with down syndrome. What a great idea, forcing people who aren't equipped enough to deal with a child with disabilities to have them anyway. Definitely won't end in disaster for any of the parties involved, be it the parents or child.

The parents ''forced'' to continue with the pregnancy will likely not raise the child though. They will turn the child over to foster care in the majority of cases.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

These organizations that are supposedly there to ''help'' these individuals actually seem to try to play down the severity of Down Syndrome. I notice they really try to push the idea of career opportunities and independent living for them too when we all know this is practically an impossibility.

I’ve wondered about this phenomenon. I think it’s a mix of the pro-life factions pushing it combined with some people not wanting to accept there are limitations in life that cannot be overcome no matter how much love, science, positive thinking is involved. Some of it seems like good intentions run amok or worst case like false propaganda territory.

I haven’t watched it but A&E produced a reality series on Down syndrome ppl (Born this Way) and the promos for it showed high-functioning young adult Down syndrome people. It gave the impression these people led lives just like every other 20 year old just with a few more challenges - which is BS. It was also misleading to only show only high-functioning cases that make for good TV narratives. Obviously the more severe cases don’t make for heartwarming viewing and don’t count. If they wanted to try and educate the public about people with Down syndrome they should show a wide spectrum of them, but we know reality or education is never the point of “reality TV.”

The very highest functioning Down syndrome cases have an IQ of 50-69, the median or typical IQ is 35-50, the most severe 35-20.

 

[Terrorist]

As someone who could be considered a "fundie" (lapsed Catholic, but an extreme social conservative who's very, very anti-abortion), I think it's cruel to not let these kids expire gracefully. Can you really say it's God's will that they be subjected to all these unnatural procedures if their life will only be a brief one of horrible pain, only possible through manmade machines? It's playing God, just like abortion. He's supposed to decide life and death, not you, and the horrors in this thread should be proof to a Christian that these parents are going against the natural order of things.

 

[MG 620]

Relevant news to the topic of this thread: Ohio apparently passed a bill that bans the abortion of fetuses with down syndrome..

Say what? Fucking disgusting.

 

[mulliganfarmer]

Here's a relevant story: was chatting with a taxi driver once about the work I do, and he told me about a woman he had in his car with her teenage Down's Syndrome daughter, she was a representative of a group for parents of DS children from the UK and she had come over to our country because there seemed to be more acceptance and support for DS people than in the UK and she wanted to find out what made our country so different. It seemingly didn't occur to either her or the taxi driver that abortion is illegal in this country, regardless of how compatible with life the child is, and so the strong acceptance and integration of the disabled here is out of necessity.

A young DS adult that took the same bus route has me had a panic attack because he missed his stop and didn't know what to do, I ended up getting off with him, ringing his parents who were both at work, getting his address and walking him home (and if I hadn't, there was a line of volunteers who were offering to help). It's made the culture here very empathetic, but if it didn't we'd just have a repeat of the Bulgarian orphanage scenario with a handful of overworked carers trying to find a spare five minutes per child.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Here's a relevant story: was chatting with a taxi driver once about the work I do, and he told me about a woman he had in his car with her teenage Down's Syndrome daughter, she was a representative of a group for parents of DS children from the UK and she had come over to our country because there seemed to be more acceptance and support for DS people than in the UK and she wanted to find out what made our country so different. It seemingly didn't occur to either her or the taxi driver that abortion is illegal in this country, regardless of how compatible with life the child is, and so the strong acceptance and integration of the disabled here is out of necessity.

A young DS adult that took the same bus route has me had a panic attack because he missed his stop and didn't know what to do, I ended up getting off with him, ringing his parents who were both at work, getting his address and walking him home (and if I hadn't, there was a line of volunteers who were offering to help). It's made the culture here very empathetic, but if it didn't we'd just have a repeat of the Bulgarian orphanage scenario with a handful of overworked carers trying to find a spare five minutes per child.

Out of curiosity, what country or region of the world? In the USA abortion is legal but we are also known for people with high functioning DS being intergrated into our communities. Adults with DS working in grocery stores or other jobs appropriate to their capabilities is very common here, as is seeing them out and about in the community with their life skills aides.

Edit: I was going to guess Ireland but since abortion is available through the NHS if you traveled I wasn’t sure how that would effect birthrates of DS

 

[mulliganfarmer]

Out of curiosity, what country or region of the world? In the USA abortion is legal but we are also known for people with high functioning DS being intergrated into our communities. Adults with DS working in grocery stores or other jobs appropriate to their capabilities is very common here, as is seeing them out and about in the community with their life skills aides.

Edit: I was going to guess Ireland but since abortion is available through the NHS if you traveled I wasn’t sure how that would effect birthrates of DS

It is Ireland. If you want to get an abortion in the UK as many women do you still have to get the money to get over there in the first place, you are not advised to go alone and you need to find somewhere to stay during the recovery period, not to mention taking time off work or arranging childcare for the children you might already have, so even before you set foot in England it's cost you a fair chunk of cash. There have also been cases of women being stopped in the airport/ferry if they were suspected of going over for an abortion, it's easier to arrange these days but before that a lot of women got stuck with their pregnancies and the result is pretty much everyone I know will have at least one severely disabled person in the family. (For example, my extended family has four. My partner's family has two. My employer's family also has two.)

That's coupled with the fact that Ireland has a very centralized population so certain genetic conditions pop up without much warning. It's not like with the Muslim communities deliberately marrying cousins, but chances are if you marry an Irish person and you're also Irish there's a chance you're distantly related but just related enough for the genes to get messed up. That's why Ireland has the highest rates of cystic fibrosis in the world.

We also do see DS adults working community jobs and doing things independently, but the main issue is still with safeguarding and that is a full time job for a parent or a carer. That DS kid on the bus took that same route every day, knew where he was and where he was supposed to get off, paid the fare with his own money (I think he was volunteering at a charity shop nearby) but the one time he made a mistake he couldn't cope with the consequences and therefore allowed me, a stranger, to remove him from the bus and find out where he lived. That worked out okay for him but it could have gone very wrong.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Relevant news to the topic of this thread: Ohio apparently passed a bill that bans the abortion of fetuses with down syndrome. What a great idea, forcing people who aren't equipped enough to deal with a child with disabilities to have them anyway. Definitely won't end in disaster for any of the parties involved, be it the parents or child.

Saw on the news yesterday a story about how massively overburdened Ohio's foster care system is due to opioids, but I'm sure this couldn't possibly make that any worse!

 

[Dorsia.Reservation]

Saw on the news yesterday a story about how massively overburdened Ohio's foster care system is due to opioids, but I'm sure this couldn't possibly make that any worse!

And I can bet the house most if not all of the people behind this law don't have special needs kids and wouldn't dream of letting a foster child and certainly not one with DS into their home.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Saw on the news yesterday a story about how massively overburdened Ohio's foster care system is due to opioids, but I'm sure this couldn't possibly make that any worse!

Obviously wise state legislators could tell it would be even better with forced pregnancies of retarded opioid dependent babies flooding Ohio’s overburdened foster care system.

 

[Mrs Paul]

Probably because a lot of them believe the myth that people with Downs are always happy and sweet, just like big puppies. It's really patronizing, when you think about it. (Someone said there's not a provision for the mother's life being at stake -- is that true?)
Besides, this is just a move towards outlawing abortion in general, I'll bet.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Probably because a lot of them believe the myth that people with Downs are always happy and sweet, just like big puppies. It's really patronizing, when you think about it. (Someone said there's not a provision for the mother's life being at stake -- is that true?)
Besides, this is just a move towards outlawing abortion in general, I'll bet.

If the word “abortion” or “pregnancy” is anywhere in the legislation and it’s supported by the pro-life faction, the whole point of it is to chip away at legalized abortion. They realized just a blanket reversal of Roe v Wade was unlikely so instead they try to dismantle it bit by bit in state legislatures via shit like this.

 

[LogicBeetch]

Relevant news to the topic of this thread: Ohio apparently passed a bill that bans the abortion of fetuses with down syndrome. What a great idea, forcing people who aren't equipped enough to deal with a child with disabilities to have them anyway. Definitely won't end in disaster for any of the parties involved, be it the parents or child.

Right? Because, what could possibly go wrong when you force women (a high number of them over 40 years of age statistically) to gestate, give birth to, and raise a child that will struggle from the day it's born and , in the best case scenario, far outlive the parent. Also, Ohio has a divorce rate for parents of children with disabilities that is much higher than the rest of the nation...so, let's make sure that handicapped kid is raised by a single mother, too. The knowledge that more than half the people of Ohio thought this bill was a great idea makes me fairly sure I never want to live there.

As someone who could be considered a "fundie" (lapsed Catholic, but an extreme social conservative who's very, very anti-abortion), I think it's cruel to not let these kids expire gracefully. Can you really say it's God's will that they be subjected to all these unnatural procedures if their life will only be a brief one of horrible pain, only possible through manmade machines? It's playing God, just like abortion. He's supposed to decide life and death, not you, and the horrors in this thread should be proof to a Christian that these parents are going against the natural order of things.

You have an interesting position. Just for clarification: where do you stand on assisted fertility? I would imagine that, given your statement regarding playing God, you'd stand with those that say infertile people shouldn't seek out fertility doctors because if God has created you with an infertility issue, He has done so as part of His plan...but I don't want to presume. I tend to agree with you , regarding using EXTREME measures to keep a child alive but I just wonder where you draw the line? If a kid is born with a kidney condition that's fixed by surgical intervention...is that ok? Or, should we presume that God would say any treatment is playing God?

 

[Terrorist]

You have an interesting position. Just for clarification: where do you stand on assisted fertility? I would imagine that, given your statement regarding playing God, you'd stand with those that say infertile people shouldn't seek out fertility doctors because if God has created you with an infertility issue, He has done so as part of His plan...but I don't want to presume. I tend to agree with you , regarding using EXTREME measures to keep a child alive but I just wonder where you draw the line? If a kid is born with a kidney condition that's fixed by surgical intervention...is that ok? Or, should we presume that God would say any treatment is playing God?

You have to look at the specific situation and its results before making those sorts of judgements, imo. Generally, I draw the line where undue suffering happens. Assisted fertility/reasonable surgical intervention aren't sources of pain for others, so they're alright with me. On the other hand, keeping these kids alive beyond what's natural is needlessly cruel, and their poor quality of life is a clear sign that it's unnatural (or even against God's will).

 

[LogicBeetch]

You have to look at the specific situation and its results before making those sorts of judgements, imo. Generally, I draw the line where undue suffering happens. Assisted fertility/reasonable surgical intervention aren't sources of pain for others, so they're alright with me. On the other hand, keeping these kids alive beyond what's natural is needlessly cruel, and their poor quality of life is a clear sign that it's unnatural (or even against God's will).

Thanks for the response. I would argue that assisted fertility often leads to a lot of pain and suffering for others. When the human body isn't primed to gestate and you're spending literally tens of thousands to do daily shots, painful procedures to harvest eggs, and spending time and resources that could be used to help living, breathing humans with illnesses or injuries, there is harm. The infertility business is lucrative and carries it's own pain and cons. Watching a woman subject her financial livelihood and her body to years of miscarriages and financial ruin in an effort to get the ultimate push present is harmful (IN MY OPINION). I respect that you've thought about where your line is drawn personally because most people never the intellectual integrity to do so but I still feel there's a double standard.

 

[Dysnomia]

The parents ''forced'' to continue with the pregnancy will likely not raise the child though. They will turn the child over to foster care in the majority of cases.

Remind me to never move to Ohio.

The pro-life people don't care about the baby after it's born. This is a huge logic hole that they never want to address. You can't abort your downie even if you are unprepared to take care of it. But you can't do that. So who's going to adopt him?

Crickets chirp and nothing else.

If you are going to tell women that they can't abort defective fetuses then you better be prepared to justify your feelings. I'd say make them all adopt a disabled child. But that's not fair to the kids. I guarantee most of these people can't walk the walk. And the ones that have their own little potatoes tend to be like Gwen Hartley and sugar coat the reality of having to deal with a real life horror show every single day until the poor thing mercifully passes away.

A woman should be allowed to get a timely abortion for any reason she chooses. I don't see why this is such an issue for anyone. I'm not religious. I went to a Catholic school but always thought it was a huge burden to follow a religion. As far as I'm concerned if God is real he has a lot to answer for and I'm certainly not his personal property. It's not fair to make others follow your line of logic when they don't share your beliefs though. I wouldn't tell a fundie to stop believing in God. So I don't really appreciate them trying to make their beliefs the law of the land when not everyone shares them.

Chipping away at abortion laws is only going to lead to more deaths from illegal procedures. Just let women abort. And if you don't believe in it don't do it. Be your own moral compass. Don't try to be the moral compass of everyone else. You don't have that right. I don't understand why something so simple is so hard to do. But since I'm not burdened by fearing what God thinks of me I guess I don't understand.

Enough religious sperging from me.

It certainly is true that television tends to sugarcoat the Downs people's lives. Because seeing someone so severely affected that they need 24/7 care doesn't make for a happy human interest story. It creates a false view of reality. Your Downs child may not end up high functioning. They may not even make it past infancy.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Remind me to never move to Ohio.

The pro-life people don't care about the baby after it's born. This is a huge logic hole that they never want to address. You can't abort your downie even if you are unprepared to take care of it. But you can't do that. So who's going to adopt him?

Crickets chirp and nothing else.

If you are going to tell women that they can't abort defective fetuses then you better be prepared to justify your feelings. I'd say make them all adopt a disabled child. But that's not fair to the kids. I guarantee most of these people can't walk the walk. And the ones that have their own little potatoes tend to be like Gwen Hartley and sugar coat the reality of having to deal with a real life horror show every single day until the poor thing mercifully passes away.

A woman should be allowed to get a timely abortion for any reason she chooses. I don't see why this is such an issue for anyone. I'm not religious. I went to a Catholic school but always thought it was a huge burden to follow a religion. As far as I'm concerned if God is real he has a lot to answer for and I'm certainly not his personal property. It's not fair to make others follow your line of logic when they don't share your beliefs though. I wouldn't tell a fundie to stop believing in God. So I don't really appreciate them trying to make their beliefs the law of the land when not everyone shares them.

Chipping away at abortion laws is only going to lead to more deaths from illegal procedures. Just let women abort. And if you don't believe in it don't do it. Be your own moral compass. Don't try to be the moral compass of everyone else. You don't have that right. I don't understand why something so simple is so hard to do. But since I'm not burdened by fearing what God thinks of me I guess I don't understand.

Enough religious sperging from me.

It certainly is true that television tends to sugarcoat the Downs people's lives. Because seeing someone so severely affected that they need 24/7 care doesn't make for a happy human interest story. It creates a false view of reality. Your Downs child may not end up high functioning. They may not even make it past infancy.

The horror stories of the lengths women have gone to (and many times died from) to end an unwanted pregnancy go back to ancient times. Not to mention the countless children who endured ungodly abuse and suffering because they were born resented and unwanted.

We have finally reached the point that science has allowed us to chose and plan children, but crazy ppl still want unwanted children to be forced upon unwilling, unprepared women for reasons I can’t fathom.

It’s not like humans are an endangered species ffs, there are way too many of us already causing the extinction of so many rare species on the planet. I could make a very strong case for banning abortions for snow leopards and Siberian tigers, but fewer humans is a good thing at this point in time.

 

[AnOminous]

The horror stories of the lengths women have gone to (and many times died from) to end an unwanted pregnancy go back to ancient times. Not to mention the countless children who endured ungodly abuse and suffering because they were born resented and unwanted.

We have finally reached the point that science has allowed us to chose and plan children, but crazy ppl still want unwanted children to be forced upon unwilling, unprepared women for reasons I can’t fathom.

Even goddamn animals know enough to abort spontaneously.

Christian fascists have even less respect for women than they do for animals.

Fuck those people.

 

[Shit Waifu]

Even goddamn animals know enough to abort spontaneously.

Christian fascists have even less respect for women than they do for animals.

Fuck those people.

They don’t care about so called “protected” fetuses after they’re born either. Apparently unborn “lives” are more important than living kids. Especially if the kids got a disability.