TGWTG "Nostalgia Critic" / Doug Walker, Rob Walker, Mike Michaud, Mike Ellis, Holly Christine Brown, et al - The Incompetent Predator-Protecting Upper Management of Channel Awesome, Doug Still Not That Funny

[LordofCringe7206]

Doug is really fucked.
Though he also has put himself in this situation.Heck, even if he stopped doing reviews, he is most likely not going to be any success in a long shot. Lets not forget how he decided to quit his old job. You think anyone is going to ever hire him after that?

That video of him quitting his job really signifies what a moron Doug truly is. Even if you despise your job, you still shouldn't burn any bridges on the way out. As easy as it looks to just tell your boss to fuck off on your last day, how's that going to be an asset to you long term? You should maintain a professional relationship regardless of how much you hate your employer, just on the basis that they could rehire you at some point or give you a good word when interviewing for another job.

On top of that, this idiot goes and films himself quitting his job. How's that going to look to an employer if your internet career doesn't pan out the way you think it will?

 

[Slap47]

I don't see why anybody would think this is something that could kill CA. Even middle of the road youtubers like Digibro aren't killed by drama where they're clearly in the wrong so why would it kill a massive YouTuber community? TheFineBros and Paul Brothers were hardly affected by their respective scandals.

Doug resigning on principle is the only thing that could realistically kill it right now but Doug, despite all his gusto, has proven himself to be a weak willed person who'll accept Michaud throwing people under the bus and screwing them.

Know Your Meme sums it up pretty well.

You can also read Hank Green's account, which attributes it all to anti-antisemitism on YouTube.

I thought the Amazing Atheist left Channel Awesome along ass time ago, he's the last person that I think that would be grooming fans. IIRC, there was a greentext on /tv/ back in either 2014 between 2016 that explicitly said that Doug Walker was doing some casting couches.

Because he literally groomed somebody.

https://www.facebook.com/YoutubeTAA/posts/794479500618354

 

[oddish]

They removed the "fan document". Anyone save a copy of that? I'm curious to know what was in that.

 

[LordofCringe7206]

They removed the "fan document". Anyone save a copy of that? I'm curious to know what was in that.

The fan document is still up as far as I can tell.

You can also read Hank Green's account, which attributes it all to anti-antisemitism on YouTube.

I did read it. Hank Green is stupid.

 

[MaxiMax]

He's doing fine, seemingly. He still makes videos, but they're all in French, so I can't tell.

Here's him talking about the TGWTG drama (there's timecodes). Perhaps a French speaker could translate it?

Basically he quit the website in 2012 because of the management and because he began to make video for a french public on his youtube channel. First he talks about the fact contributors weren't employed by Channel Awesome... no contract and so on... He says it wasn't that big of deal in his opinion and it wasn't the problem that made him quit the group.
Then he talks about the difference of treatment between contributors with some getting much more of the spotlight than the others.

He insists he doesn't want to kick the hand that fed him since it was thanks to the website he discovered Benzaie and started to make videos... he also says that Channel Awesome paid for him the travel and the hotel room for the anniversary special he was in so it was kinda nice of them to do that even though the shooting was horrible in itself and the film is really shitty in the end.
Mike Michaud also brung him to a Chicago Bull match during his stay back then. But nonetheless he agrees than the management of Channel Awesome is just plain bad.

TheSadPanda doesn't want to talk about all of this because he considers this story his behind him + he was friend with JewWario so talking about Channel Awesome is still kinda sad for him for personnal reasons. But he finaly decided to talk about it because everyone was asking him things about it and he thinks it's better to answer all of these questions and be done with it afterward than ignoring all of it and seeing questions everyday for a long time. It was a chapter of his life with some good things, but it's in the past.

So... TheSadPanda says the management of Channel Awesome was bad. He describes Mike Michaud as some kind of gold digger who was lucky enough to make Doug sign a contract to gain money and ride the wave of the popularity of tgwtg. He talks about the fact that Doug let Mike have the rights for the Nostalgia Critic and that Mike stroke a deal with blip (blip gave money to Channel Awesome to put videos only on their site)... but in fact the money which was given to Channel Awesome wasn't really that well shared : it seems like Mike was getting most of the money, Doug and Rob a mit less, and finally the DRH lady was paid really poorly.
He talks about the DRH getting fired the day of her surgery. About Lupa putting more ads in her videos and Mike getting angry over it.

Yeah basically until 1:40 basicaly things we already kind of knew. Sorry I just wrote all of that at the same time I was listening to what he says so I guess all of that I wrote so far is kind of pointless... But beginning now he seems to talk more about things from his personal experience and not general things like juste before.

He talks about Welshy another contributor on the site who is a friend of his (and who is getting maried apparently... don't know if this information is really interresting for you but here it is) and who participated in some TheSadPanda's videos. TheSadPanda and Welshy were always a bit cynical about everything and in particular about tgwtg. One day TheSadPanda wrote a tweet a bit on the edgy side about twgtg and Rob Walker got angry over it and lectured Welshy about it (even giving him a "réprimande" I don't really know how to say that in english... basicaly if Welshy did another thing like this it would have consequences)... Welshy was firstly surprised because it was a TheSadPanda's tweet and in fact Rob just didn't know there was a difference between Welshy and TheSadPanda which in itself is just great management... and it's kinda hilarious since the two guys don't look at all like each other (plus Welshy was the one managing the Youtube channel of the brand...). Rob realized that TheSadPanda and Welshy weren't the same person at last but continue to threaten Weslhy because "TheSadPanda and Welshy were a team".
Secondly Welshy wasn't that impressed by the threat of Rob since... Rob couldn't very much do anything against him after all.

TheSadPanda was mostly done with tgwtg as soon as he began to work on his youtube channel so he stopped posting videos for some months to concentrate more on his youtube channel. Since he hadn't a contract with Channel Awesome it wasn't really a tough decision for him. One day after several months Rob Walker talked to him about this issue and about how Channel Awesome was deciding to firing him due to his inactivity... and TheSadPanda answer was he couldn't really be fired since he wasn't an employee in the first place. TheSadPanda says he could have sued Channel Awesome since they used one of his music in a film, but he doesn't really care in the first and have other things to do. To top it of he also said to Rob that Channel Awesome was stagnating and gave him some tips like for example paying a new big contributor to put his videos only of the site in order to harness a new public and boost the frequentation of Channel Awesome. Rob just blocked him on Skype after that.

... Yeah. Now I have to go to a party, sorry guys.
If someone else wants to take my place I stopped at 1:43. Else I will just continue to translate tomorrow when I get home.

 

[Hatoful Dandy]

Cross-post from the Channel Awesome thread.

Makes you wonder if MCNs will just start culling Internet reviewers in general because of all the potential drama and copyright issues.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

I love how this many years out, people still don't quite understand the whole "You can't actually just use entire chunks of copyright material as you please, even if you scream over it...".

 

[Flying_with_the_Penguins]

YouTube networks are pretty much a scam that only exist because Google refuses to acknowledge that transformative use is a thing. So while I sympathize with them in that regard, maybe changing the general format of your content to no longer be tailored towards a site you currently hate might be a good thing no?

 

[CausticMinory]

Did Lupa not think "Oh wow I'm building a thing about my old employers, and telling all the dirty laundry about them" and think that her current MCN wouldn't look at this as a, I don't know, private information leak? Like I'm happy you are getting all this shit out but, no one wants to deal with a drama queen.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

transformative use is a thing

And that's still not what they do...

No matter where they go, eventually, the copyright holders will get them, because you cannot legally just use chunks of copyrighted material as you please under the guise of it being "remixed". Lindsey did a good little clip about it not long ago. Copyright has strict definitions and laws, and I think people look at the IHE/Cool Cat beef of someone "successfully" winning with Fair Use. He didn't, Daddy Derek simply never followed through on his threats. If he had, there's a solid chance he would have won.

Real review programs get permission and/or pay studios to be able to use content, and when they do it's almost always incredibly brief segments. A synopsis with a couple dozen scenes of video, regardless if they talk over it or not, isn't the same thing. And the conspiracy that copyright holders are cheating "because you don't want us letting people know when you make garbage! This is desperation because you're losing power!" is fucking stupid.

 

[Goofy Logic]

Did Lupa not think "Oh wow I'm building a thing about my old employers, and telling all the dirty laundry about them" and think that her current MCN wouldn't look at this as a, I don't know, private information leak? Like I'm happy you are getting all this shit out but, no one wants to deal with a drama queen.

It's a common repercussion for whistleblowers, and I use that term somewhat loosely for her as it was pretty obvious she has a vendetta of sorts against CA since she left.

She pretty much marked herself as a black sheep by pushing this paper out.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Real review programs get permission and/or pay studios to be able to use content, and when they do it's almost always incredibly brief segments. A synopsis with a couple dozen scenes of video, regardless if they talk over it or not, isn't the same thing

Worth noting that Mystery Science Theater 3000, which a lot of these angry reviewer types take a lot of inspiration from, always made sure to purchase the rights to show the movies first. It's okay when they do it because they've gotten permission from the actual owners to show the movie almost wholesale while cracking jokes at it. That's also why occasionally some episodes are dropped from DVD releases because the rights have expired.

I think that's the real difference between angry reviewers and MST3K, other than the fact that MST3K is actually funny and cleverly written.

 

[Flying_with_the_Penguins]

Real review programs get permission and/or pay studios to be able to use content, and when they do it's almost always incredibly brief segments. A synopsis with a couple dozen scenes of video, regardless if they talk over it or not, isn't the same thing. And the conspiracy that copyright holders are cheating "because you don't want us letting people know when you make garbage! This is desperation because you're losing power!" is fucking stupid.

They don't need permission for fair use to apply, but that doesn't mean its a free for all either. Quinton Reviews explained it fairly well in his RWJ video, where essentially the biggest factor in determining fair use is whether or not the content you produce is made with a different intent than the original and whether or not it will compete from within the same audience. In that regard, there are still instances of fair use infringement on youtube where reviewers have had their stuff taken down by studios even though it uses no footage of any films whatsoever.

 

[UglyOldJafar]

They don't need permission for fair use to apply, but that doesn't mean its a free for all either. Quinton Reviews explained it fairly well in his RJW video, where essentially the biggest factor in determining fair use is whether or not the content you produce is made with a different intent than the original and whether or not it will compete from within the same audience. In that regard, there are still instances of fair use infringement on youtube where reviewers have had their stuff taken down by studios even though it uses no footage of any films whatsoever.

So does that mean when Nostalgia Chick uses Pocahontas footage and instead talks mostly about racism and native americans, she has by default been working in a closer range of fair use than lets say when she reviewed it years ago as part of channeldownfall?

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

Worth noting that Mystery Science Theater 3000, which a lot of these angry reviewer types take a lot of inspiration from, always made sure to purchase the rights to show the movies first. It's okay when they do it because they've gotten permission from the actual owners to show the movie almost wholesale while cracking jokes at it. That's also why occasionally some episodes are dropped from DVD releases because the rights have expired.

I think that's the real difference between angry reviewers and MST3K, other than the fact that MST3K is actually funny and cleverly written.

MST3K DVDs were also expensive as shit to buy when they first came out, too. That was why.

They don't need permission for fair use to apply, but that doesn't mean its a free for all either. Quinton Reviews explained it fairly well in his RWJ video, where essentially the biggest factor in determining fair use is whether or not the content you produce is made with a different intent than the original and whether or not it will compete from within the same audience. In that regard, there are still instances of fair use infringement on youtube where reviewers have had their stuff taken down by studios even though it uses no footage of any films whatsoever.

Fair Use is a defense, technically they can say everything they do is Fair Use, doesn't mean it's gonna fly. Listen to Linkara in that clip with Lindsey, the common defenses are 1. "Well we're not selling them outright..." 2. "Well you're not making money off of it anymore.." and 3. "Well we're advertising for you! This will sell more copies!".

None of that bullshit would fly in court.

 

[Juan But Not Forgotten]

Did Lupa not think "Oh wow I'm building a thing about my old employers, and telling all the dirty laundry about them" and think that her current MCN wouldn't look at this as a, I don't know, private information leak? Like I'm happy you are getting all this shit out but, no one wants to deal with a drama queen.

Standart Lupa's cycle. It's like when she was sending copyright strikes for the re-uploads of her old videos, calling those people thiefs, only to get copyrighy strike herself month later with reaction like "It's fair use, I did nothing wrong".

 

[Flying_with_the_Penguins]

So does that mean when Nostalgia Chick uses Pocahontas footage and instead talks mostly about racism and native americans, she has by default been working in a closer range of fair use than lets say when she reviewed it years ago as part of channeldownfall?

Possibly. This stuff is all very fuzzy at points, and most of it is done on a case by case basis, but the best example of not needing permission would be song parodys such as what Weird-Al does (even though he asks the artists anyways out of courtesy, but he technically isn't legally obliged to do so). Video content might be a different story all together, but it still has its own complexities to deal with.

"Well we're not selling them outright..."

but thats technically not true since they get money from ad revenue and monetization, which means that there is a payment factor involved. Whether or not the payment is direct or via donation through patreon could be another complication.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

but thats technically not true since they get money from ad revenue and monetization, which means that there is a payment factor involved. Whether or not the payment is direct or via donation through patreon could be another complication.

Yeah Lindsey put an immediate stop to that right after he says it. He just kind of stammers and says "Well I'd argue it anyway...".

 

[RodgerDodger]

It's a common repercussion for whistleblowers, and I use that term somewhat loosely for her as it was pretty obvious she has a vendetta of sorts against CA since she left.

She pretty much marked herself as a black sheep by pushing this paper out.

That’s what gets me. She has been so outraged and obsessed with CA for years that she stirred all this up again. When you go through these document dumps there really isn’t anything that bad. Mike Michaud is clearly an asshole and a bad manager who treats partners poorly. ALERT THE AUThORITIES! CA looks like every other business that started as a Hobby or Passion project. It hit the same exact issues every other such businesses hit when they grow to the point where they need real proper business management. And their failings are the same seen in every other operation that grows beyond its ability to properly manage. There is nothing shocking or earth shattering in these claims. Some low level sexual shenanigans that appear to have been dealt with to nobodies satisfaction (generally a sign of a company doing it right.) Lousy Communications between upper management and staff, unrealistic expectations from everyone. Poor long term money and project management.

In other words it was a lousy place to work. And with one exception it was a place that really wasn’t paying anybody. There is an obvious solution to this for anyone that isn’t an entitled hipster living the YouTube dream. Work for someone that treats you better and pays you.

Yet Pregler is championing the charge (again) in airing all of the CA dirty launders. While this might be highly entertaining from our point of view. Watching rampaging autists fight is pure hilarity. It doesn’t serve any other purpose beyond making everyone involved look bad. There are no crimes. Not even much unethical behavior. Poor management. Gee who would have imaged a bunch of YouTube focused hipsters would be poorly managed? The only one who is really going to get burned here is Pregler. In every way possible she radiates “toxic employee! Do not let in door!”

 

[Goatse Platoon]

Has anyone figured out who the Anons are in the "Not So Awesome" document yet? (particularly "Anonymous II," as they seem to give off quite a bit of :powerlevel: information about themselves.)

There is no way in hell that Anonymous II isn't Andrew Dickman.

• Hired and made titlecards for TGWTG, this is something Dickman did
• He was a full time animator, so is Dickman
• He made a show about games, so did Dickman (Electronic Heroes)
• His show was on Blistered Thumbs, and so was Electronic Heroes