TGWTG "Nostalgia Critic" / Doug Walker, Rob Walker, Mike Michaud, Mike Ellis, Holly Christine Brown, et al - The Incompetent Predator-Protecting Upper Management of Channel Awesome, Doug Still Not That Funny

CWCissey said:
https://twitter.com/LarryBundyJr/status/983312735806087169

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This response:
https://twitter.com/PimpMasterYoda1/status/983317233685487616
:story:
 
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A Useless Fish said:
How in the ever loving fuck did the people at the top pull off so much exceptional shit without ever being taken to court?
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No signed contracts with anyone, every agreement done by mouth or via (deletable) text, plus most of their contributors weren't making enough dough to stand a legal battle on their own. Any court case would be a prolonged "he said, she said" tussle, making it very difficult to provide any solid evidence that all that shit really happened. Probably winnable after a long fight, but if at some point you'd have a choice between paying your lawyer or paying your rent...
They'd probably have must a better chance in class action lawsuit, but good luck banding them together long enough for that to happen (despite the fact if the judge would even allow it).
 
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RJ MacReady said:
They didn't have contracts for anything. If you don't have a contractual agreement when you provide labour for someone, you don't have legal standing to take up anything in court no matter how poorly you're treated. Your only option is to exercise your right to leave.

Both the ex-producers and a lot of commentators here and elsewhere seriously underestimate the importance of contracts.
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Hari Seldon said:
No signed contracts with anyone, every agreement done by mouth or via (deletable) text, plus most of their contributors weren't making enough dough to stand a legal battle on their own. Any court case would be a prolonged "he said, she said" tussle, making it very difficult to provide any solid evidence that all that shit really happened. Probably winnable after a long fight, but if at some point you'd have a choice between paying your lawyer or paying your rent...
They'd probably have must a better chance in class action lawsuit, but good luck banding them together long enough for that to happen (despite the fact if the judge would even allow it).
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So, basically the idiocy on all sides may have saved the idiots in charge from some serious legal shit. Brilliant. Or not. Fuck it.
 
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RJ MacReady said:
They didn't have contracts for anything. If you don't have a contractual agreement when you provide labour for someone, you don't have legal standing to take up anything in court no matter how poorly you're treated. Your only option is to exercise your right to leave.
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Not exactly true, verbal contracts are valid from legal perspective. But good luck proving anything with that.

RJ MacReady said:
Both the ex-producers and a lot of commentators here and elsewhere seriously underestimate the importance of contracts.
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It depends on your approach to your employer. I think most of those ex-producers were overjoyed that they were given an opportunity to work on the same platform as Doug. Probably from their perspective it was TGWTG.com/CA that was doing them a favor, so not to fuck it up they stayed quiet. Only later reality kicked in (with varying degree).
 
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AlmightyHypnoToad said:
I'm too lazy to go through 83 pages to check if this has been mentioned already, but anyone else notice that most people raised actual issues and Lindsey spent a good chunk of hers bitching about #gamergate?

Anyway, this level of mismanagement is disappointing to see. I could almost understand in the very early days, but past the first year it's ridiculous. I remember their TGWTG website being stupid to navigate even for the time - the changes needed for it to be user friendly and to promote all producers are hardly complicated either. I think the mistakes might've been fine if not for Michaud's behaviour - but heaven forbid people apologise for crappy actions, right?
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Lindsey believes that CA not cracking down on Gamergate supporters on the site is tantamount to being treated horribly an employer and sexually abused. Based on what that green haired guy said, it seems like the site was divided into cliques and she was basically leader of the sjw clique and out to use her influence to crack down on her political enemies.
 
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Hari Seldon said:
Not exactly true, verbal contracts are valid from legal perspective. But good luck proving anything with that.


It depends on your approach to your employer. I think most of those ex-producers were overjoyed that they were given an opportunity to work on the same platform as Doug. Probably from their perspective it was TGWTG.com/CA that was doing them a favor, so not to fuck it up they stayed quiet. Only later reality kicked in (with varying degree).
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I think biases about new media may have had a part. Contracts admittedly aren't the first thing that come to mind when one says they make silly Internet videos for a living. Even so, nowadays, it's patently clear that making silly Internet videos is still a business venture and should be treated as such.
 
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Henry Bemis said:
I think biases about new media may have had a part. Contracts admittedly aren't the first thing that come to mind when one says they make silly Internet videos for a living. Even so, nowadays, it's patently clear that making silly Internet videos is still a business venture and should be treated as such.
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Some of the producers in the document suggest they wanted contracts as early as 2010 but didn't push for them. I can't tell if that's them speaking in hindsight.

Which, mind you, I can understand for the reasons @Hari Seldon mentioned. Timid amateurs not getting contracts is a widespread problem in the entertainment industry.
 
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ChevroletBlackboard said:
I saw on another forum that someone was talking to Larry, and he apparently admitted to them that he's not going to leave CA because he wants to watch the fireworks all the way to the end. He also thinks that CA has only a few weeks left before it goes down.
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"Channel Awesome is falling apart faster than Peter Molyneux's promises."
 
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A Useless Fish said:
I just finished listening to that Frederik guy's reading of the draft of the document that came before Leslie and Iron Liz added to it. I read those seperately.

How in the ever loving fuck did the people at the top pull off so much exceptional shit without ever being taken to court?
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For what exactly? Channel Autism wasn't an employer. It was a hosting service for neurotic nitwits. CA didn't pay the nitwits. It took a cut of ad revenues generated through CA's distribution. So effectively the content creators were paying Michaud for his services. Let that sink in. Yes they are all that stupid. Because they're e-celebs and gonna make them meeleeooons!

ComeoutandJULAY said:
So does that make Tamara brave for being the only notable female in a male-dominated environment, or does it make her stupid?
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It makes her an actual paid employee, unlike the rest of them. Tamara and Malcom are paid performers.
 
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ComeoutandJULAY said:
So does that make Tamara brave for being the only notable female in a male-dominated environment, or does it make her stupid?
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It doesn't make her anything. Like I've said, the acting industry is oversaturated and it's fine for Malcolm and Tamara to work with Doug because it's good money and have they have no other options at the moment.

They aren't part of this drama and aren't to blame. I suspect they'll keep working for Doug until he lets them go. Tamara doesn't seem to have higher ambitions but I'm sure Malcolm will go somewhere.
 
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samuraicrack said:
it’s honestly fucking bizarre to think about all this shit happening with Channel Awesome. if Doug, Rob and Mike actually were competent in what they were doing and knew how to run a business then Channel Awesome would probably be as successful of an online entertainment company as Rooster Teeth is.
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That’s a rather huge “if”. That “if” is the greatest common failure of a business. The inability to transition from a hobby or interest or small scale operation to an actual business. That point where your employees are no longer simply a small intimate circle of friends and family. The point where you must learn to manage multiple mutually exclusive self interests and expectations in order to operate, instead of simply getting paid to play with your hobby.

And honestly you can see who is and isn’t going to survive that transition period pretty early on. Look at their prior work history and work ethic. For example look at Doug’s departure from his last full time job. Look at Michaud’s. I’m betting if we go back and look at James Rolfe or the Rooster Teeth guys we would find prior employers that would hire them back in a second. Prior bosses that are proud of what they accomplished. And that’s the true sad thing about Channel Autism. They seemed to collect everybody else’s worst employees. Not their best. Like finds like, and then the wheels come off.
 
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Someone in a Tree said:
Per Michaud, it makes her not a troublemaker.
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At least until she sees everyone else leaving and decides to jump ship too.

Which makes me wonder when/if either her or Malcom will leave due to all the people quitting. For that matter, what about Joe? Is he staying until the bitter end, or will it just be Doug and Brad by the time Mike decides to shut everything down?
 
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