Battlefield General - Discuss the series here

[Cod of War]

I suppose nobody cares that the US Army didn't even integrate until 1948?

Don't you know? Being inclusive is more important than being historically accurate.

 

[cumrobbery]

Looks like I'm reinstalling BF1942

 

[Tranhuviya]

Don't you know? Being inclusive is more important than being historically accurate.

You can't even tell the difference. It's just virtue signaling.

 

[It's HK-47]

Don't you know? Being inclusive is more important than being historically accurate.

Someone at Ubisoft dunked the fuck out of Karl Marx in the Syndicate description lore, though, so Ubisoft's definitely got some kind of internal war going on. They're not completely lost to it yet, but they're not anywhere near being out of the woods.

 

[ulsterscotsman]

A simple WW2 game, how fucking hard is it to make one?

 

[millais]

Accurate doesn't sound super fun in theory, but Red Orchestra/Rising Storm developed some pretty dedicated communities. Of course they'd rather buy one game and play it for 5+ years than buy a new one every year.

Red Orchestra/Rising Storm benefited from the combination of viral memery and gameplay falling more on the arcade side of the casual/grognard milsim spectrum. It's already being speculated that Hell Let Loose is going to be able to dominate that niche with ease for this upcoming generation of WW2 shooters.

 

[F.O.E]

I could swear I posted in this thread, but it seems to be gone. Hmmmm.

Gamergate is over, guys. You can stop complaining about women now.

 

[Burned Man]

The trailer just seemed to be super scripted dramatization of multiplayer so its whatever. Battlefield's multiplayer is already about having one quarter of the soldiers running around with lmgs, another quarter nothing but snipers, and another quarter as medics that never stop to heal or revive because they are just there for the guns they have. So its already a mess and this doesn't effect that too much.

If the campaign is too much like that it will be disappointing. You can tell the stories of these soldiers in a way that doesn't seem pandering or inaccurate. One of the earlier COD WW2 games I remember playing as a kid managed to have a sequence where you play as a female Russian sniper in Stalingrad and a member of an African American tank unit that didn't feel forced or out of place. I just hope it doesn't squander the setting like Battlefield one did where only the prologue really felt like world war 1 and the rest of the campaign was mostly just sneaking around as a tank driver or pilot wiping out German bases with nothing but a pistol and a shovel.

 

[millais]

You do realize that the historical Waffen-SS was filled to the brim with non-Germans, right? 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" was composed almost entirely of (admittedly white) non-Germans. And at least 4,500 Indians formed their own SS regiment. Women, too, were non-combat auxiliaries. Racial policy was often subordinate to the realities of war.

It goes to show you that the picture of WWII you've been taught is wrong. Not at all playing this cookie-cutter shit, but I just wanted to point that out.

In the Waffen-SS, there was an Indian legion, an Arab legion, a Bosnian Muslim division, and then a division each for all the main regions of Occupied Europe (Wiking, Charlemagne, Estonian, etc).

The only place where women were employed in frontline combat roles was in the Soviet Union's air force, tank corps, and snipers. The OSS, partisan, and resistance groups across Occupied Europe, too, but that was usually more clandestine stuff. The Germans employed women as flak gunners for home air defense, but again that's more of a homefront duty.

 

[captn_kettle]

The stream in short:
-Trevor Noah and his constant awkward jokes
-The guy in the middle he was interviewing had huge nostrils
-Everyone generally pissed off that they had to wait until the end of the stream to look at something that wasn't "concept artwork"
-NO PREMIUM PASS YAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!
-Money from premium pass remodelled into cosmetic loot boxes, do a sneaky dodge around that one by asking if it's "pay-to-win" and not "does it have micro transactions"
-Campaign co-op is back in
-Campaign is orientated around these lone soldiers, exactly what Black Ops 4 is doing with their campaign
-Talking about blops, those lone soldiers look remarkably like the specialist classes in blops
-Woman with a robotic arm no-scopes a nazi while someone says 'hello old friend' voiced by a male. A minute later and cyborg woman says the same thing.
-Style is more like fortnite than bf1
-Stream spams "RIP CoD" by 12 year olds too edgy to scream about your mom over a CoD game.

 

[BoingBoingBoi]

not full sjw. um where is the sassy black woman with an afro, shitlords?

honestly though why is it considered progress when we change legislation or rewrite history to include women in more male roles? why do women just have to end up being some bastardized version of men rather than fully fledged human beings with roles, goals, and aspirations of their own?

germaine greer said it best in an interview once about the wnba or some other womens' sports league. the interviewer asked if she thought it was a good thing, and greer responded with, "not really---why don't women just make their own sports?" it sounds a bit flippant and shitlord-y at first glance but it really helps you see how dumb and regressive this kind of pandering is when compared to actual progress for women.

the interview is actually quite good.

Spoiler: the interview

 

[Ruin]

Yeeesh queen slay!

Seriously though I'm out, just shoot me in the fucking head.

 

[Tookie]

Why even bother with the WWII pretense at this point? Why not make it some kind of steampunk/Red Alert alternate universe? Then you can incorporate whatever the fuck you want without anyone complaining and maintain a 1940's aesthetic. You wouldn't even have to alter the game for European markets since there would be no Nazi imagery to censor.

 

[Nazi vegeta]

You do realize that the historical Waffen-SS was filled to the brim with non-Germans, right? 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" was composed almost entirely of (admittedly white) non-Germans. And at least 4,500 Indians formed their own SS regiment. Women, too, were non-combat auxiliaries. Racial policy was often subordinate to the realities of war.

It goes to show you that the picture of WWII you've been taught is wrong. Not at all playing this cookie-cutter shit, but I just wanted to point that out.

That doesnt change that ww2 is a war that had been fought predominantly by white men.
Putting character like that in the forefront is obvious pandering, just like it was the black guy on the cover, at the time of bf1.

It's disingenuos and dishonest.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Kotaku's gonna kotaku...Never saw that coming.

https://kotaku.com/oh-no-there-are-women-in-battlefield-v-1826275455
http://archive.fo/GOqfG

Oh No, There Are Women In Battlefield V

Luke Plunkett
Today 7:20pm
Filed to: BATTLEFIELD V
24.9K
15819

There are women in Battlefield V, a game set during the Second World War. They’re in the game, they’re in the trailer, they’re even on the posters! And a lot of people are very upset. Is this what their forefathers fought for?


Here's Our First Look At Battlefield V, Which Goes Back To WWII
Battlefield is going back to World War II, developer DICE said during a livestream today, promising …

Read more


To recap, in case your job is blessed and does not require you to monitor the worst of websites like Reddit and Twitter, some folks are angry that their favourite violent multiplayer shooter, which has never been based on anything approaching historical accuracy, now has historically inaccurate portrayals of women and a black man fighting—with guns!—in the Second World War.

It’s tiring to have to face this year after year, so it’s almost not even worth pointing out—like the guy at the bottom there tries—that women served in armed forces across the world during the conflict. Mostly as support personnel, yes, but there were also examples—in the Soviet Union especially—where they served on the frontlines, both on the ground and in the air.

But like, that doesn’t even matter here. Any idea that this, of all things, is what shatters the credibility and historical credentials of a series that has long reduced the war to endless skirmishes between jeep-flipping, plane-crashing brave soldiers named 69XX_cvmlauder_xx69 is insane. Watch this trailer and tell me that, above everything else, it’s the gender and race of the combatants that seems unrealistic:


Yet that’s where we are today, because we’re talking about the words “historical accuracy” among gamers on the internet.

Those two words rarely mean what they look like they mean. At face value they appear to suggest a game has, or is striving to attain, some semblance of accuracy in its portrayal of the events of the past.

The nature of video games means that rarely happens. To capture history in a digital experience would require a developer to adapt the language, architecture, beliefs, society, and culture of the place and time being represented, and to do so knowing that the records of the past (and subsequent writings) were shaped by the prevailing politics.

To truly present something “accurate” to the time period would probably result in a game you wouldn’t really enjoy playing. What we often see in a “historical” FPS action game is just the visual trappings. And that’s okay—it’s a mass-market action game, not a history lesson.

What angry dorks mean when they say “historical accuracy” is not a game that’s accurate to the time being presented, then, but accurate to the aspects of that time (or the popular historical re-telling of it) that are sympathetic to their current political and cultural beliefs.

It doesn’t bother them that a randomly-created soldier with no training can jump behind the controls of a complex fighter aircraft, or expertly handle a cross-section of enemy weapons. They don’t care that the streets of European cities aren’t recreated 1:1, or that uniform details aren’t strictly adhered to, or that Battlefield’s war is fought to time limits and kill counts.

Those things are acceptable compromises. It’s a video game, and those are video game things that the Second World War just needs to accommodate with its representation in order to work. Yet introduce something as relatively harmless (it has zero impact on gameplay!) as women or black soldiers where historically there were none, and suddenly the sky is falling.

It’s almost as though opposition to a British woman holding a gun, or a black man serving in a combat role has little to do with “historical accuracy,” and everything about someone finding their current views on gender, race and society challenged in a space—the good old days—they thought was safe.

Battlefield isn’t, and never has been, about recreating the past. There are far more serious and studious Second World War games for that kind of business. Instead, it’s always been about letting people in the present use war as a playground. And if DICE wants to broaden the scope of those represented in those games, then that’s awesome for everyone involved.

Well, almost everyone.

I look into my crystal ball and foresee ... seven or eight nearly identical articles in the next 48 hours. Anyone care to disagree?

 

[Red Hood]

That doesnt change that ww2 is a war that had been fought predominantly by white men.
Putting character like that in the forefront is obvious pandering, just like it was the black guy on the cover, at the time of bf1.

It's disingenuos and dishonest.

At least the black guy in BF1 had some historical precedent. The funny thing is they've pigeonholed themselves by making WWII exclusively about Americans/Britons fighting in Northern Europe from 1944-45 with mild help from zee French resistance. This is partly the fault of the popularity of Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers (good films overall, but they shape the millenial view of WWII to an inordinate degree).

I've yet to see a campaign set in Poland during 1939 in a FPS, and North Africa is only very occasionally covered. Burma and the Pacific? Wtf even is that?

You can have black tankers and Asian American army infantry without being historically inaccurate. If you want to have main characters that aren't white guys why not make a game about the US 100th Infantry battalion? They're a hell of a lot more interesting than your dumb ass comic book Mary Sues and their story (among others) deserves to be told.

 

[Ruin]

Black and handicapped. What are the odds she has a taste for pussy too so we can hit the social justice trifecta?

 

[Tranhuviya]

That doesnt change that ww2 is a war that had been fought predominantly by white men.
Putting character like that in the forefront is obvious pandering, just like it was the black guy on the cover, at the time of bf1.

It's disingenuos and dishonest.

And to which I say: this is an AAA FPS. Going in expecting realism or making concessions to reality in favor of player comfort/gameplay is a mistake. If you want your realistic white-on-white brother war, go play Project Reality or Red Orchestra or some shit. You're lucky that WWII games are being made period in this climate.

I have a feeling this will be a BF1 situation where the diverse character models are put up front and the actual campaign (presuming it has one, considering the market's continuing decline in quality) will all be whites. But then again, we are all screeching about the color of pixels in a video game. You culture warriors might think that's important, but people don't really care.

 

[neger psykolog]

Looks like I'm reinstalling BF1942

Before I could care about SJW shit on new BF titles I'd actually have to anticipate enjoying the game.

If only they could make a game more like BF1942 I might actually play some more. I really can't find it in me to enjoy the modern FPS games. BF2 was really enjoyable too.

I think it was the simplicity that made them so enjoyable. They just try to tack too much shit into these newer ones.

 

[Red Hood]

Considering the people defending this, let's just throw this out there
>Games are art
>Games are products that need to pander to lowest common denominator

pick one