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The best course of action would have been to sell the franchise and put Dave Filoni in charge.
Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off
- Thread starter CowReserach Inc.
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The best course of action would have been to sell the franchise and put Dave Filoni in charge.
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- Sep 6, 2013
Judi Dench's M is one of my favorite characters in film. Even during the moments where I hate her guts, she still commands my respect. Tell me I have a problem with strong women.
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- Jan 12, 2017
Isn't that because the prequels brought up midi-chlorians, and thus Lucas wanted to expand on that a bit more? At least it'd be a follow-up to an established idea, even if the execution would've been shit (and A Wind in the Door did the microbiotic world idea better anyway, from what I remember :autism
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- May 25, 2013
This is started over Star Wars. The franchise where the first good guy who can shoot for shit is Princess Leia, the woman who saves the guys from the detention center after their rescue plan is revealed to be stupid and bad.
Later she kills a crime boss by strangulation.
But obviously if you dislike the new movies it's because you hate women.
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- Jan 3, 2017
Isn't that because the prequels brought up midi-chlorians, and thus Lucas wanted to expand on that a bit more? At least it'd be a follow-up to an established idea, even if the execution would've been shit (and A Wind in the Door did the microbiotic world idea better anyway, from what I remember :autism
Considering how Disney buttfucked A Wrinkle in Time, I doubt we'll ever see it. Maybe Disney just hates mitochondria.
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Afaik, he changed it from "Revenge" to "Return", since to take revenge is the anti-thesis of what a Jedi should do.
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- Feb 19, 2018
Every time I am reminded of the current state of Disney-led Star Wars I am just outright baffled.
Kennedy had, on paper, every advantage going into this;
Years of experience with Lucas.
Tons of pull with top-shelf directors.
Nearly endless money and resources.
Decades of EU content that basically focus-tested all sorts of ideas.
A rabidly devoted fanbase ready to eat their own faces for more Star Wars.
The new trilogy was basically starting a few feet from the finish line in the great race to make more money. They didn't have to make amazing films, hell, even making good films wouldn't be necessary. The prequels turned a profit, for fuck's sake. A bare-minimum by-the numbers competent trilogy would have doubled the investment by now. I mean some real lazy "Hey Luke is that one of the Jedi you're training? So funny, Leia and I also have proteges of some kind played by charismatic actors and some terrorist found an old Imperial bioweapon/there is a weird traitor conspiracy in the New Republic/some Sith is opening portals to alien dimensions do you think these kids have what it takes?" kind of cookie-cutter handoff would have worked.
Yet, somehow, someway she has figured out a way to lose money. How do you do that? Why would you do that? I'm starting to believe its deliberate, that after years of working with George Lucas she just spitefully wishes to destroy Star Wars. If she was just genuinely stupid you would expect that she might make a good decision every now and then just by chance, but whenever presented with a choice she chooses the most destructive option.
Is there any other explanation?
Kennedy had, on paper, every advantage going into this;
Years of experience with Lucas.
Tons of pull with top-shelf directors.
Nearly endless money and resources.
Decades of EU content that basically focus-tested all sorts of ideas.
A rabidly devoted fanbase ready to eat their own faces for more Star Wars.
The new trilogy was basically starting a few feet from the finish line in the great race to make more money. They didn't have to make amazing films, hell, even making good films wouldn't be necessary. The prequels turned a profit, for fuck's sake. A bare-minimum by-the numbers competent trilogy would have doubled the investment by now. I mean some real lazy "Hey Luke is that one of the Jedi you're training? So funny, Leia and I also have proteges of some kind played by charismatic actors and some terrorist found an old Imperial bioweapon/there is a weird traitor conspiracy in the New Republic/some Sith is opening portals to alien dimensions do you think these kids have what it takes?" kind of cookie-cutter handoff would have worked.
Yet, somehow, someway she has figured out a way to lose money. How do you do that? Why would you do that? I'm starting to believe its deliberate, that after years of working with George Lucas she just spitefully wishes to destroy Star Wars. If she was just genuinely stupid you would expect that she might make a good decision every now and then just by chance, but whenever presented with a choice she chooses the most destructive option.
Is there any other explanation?
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- May 18, 2014
The most plausible theory I've heard is the one @Jaimas and others have stated which is that Kennedy doesn't hate Star Wars itself but really fucking resents the fact that the franchise is popular with nerds and not only nerds but white male nerds which according to her yeesh queen slay ideology are the worst thing ever. That's why the last two films were almost entirely devoted to killing off characters who were popular in the original trilogy and replacing them with boring Mary Sues (Rey) or stock diversity characters (Fin, General Tumblr, Rose.)
They're trying to kill off the old fanbase and build a new fanbase of minorities and women but they're so blinded by their own hubris they don't realize that audience doesn't fucking exist.
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- Jun 11, 2018
I think this touches on one of my concerns since the launch of Clone Wars (the 2008 version) and the Disney acquisition. Many aspects in Star Wars now seem watered down. Here are a few examples where I find this:
In Clone Wars, Ahsoka emphatically leaves the Order after her trial and near-conviction. I thought this was powerful because it gave Anakin yet another reason to be angry with the Jedi council for their lack of any type of support or defense of her innocence, furthering his eventual downfall. Later, it was revealed that had the show continued, Ahsoka was going to help the Jedi 2 or 3 times after her departure. To me, that makes her leaving have less of an impact.
Also, Clone Wars saw Anakin and Dooku duel frequently, leaving the former's comment, "My powers have doubled since the last time we met," he says in Revenge of the Sith to sound silly and arrogant as opposed to prophetic.
In addition, the anthology films, in their attempt to provide backstories for characters and events, seem to have lackluster plots that ruin a lot of the mystique and curiosity surrounding the subjects about which they cover.
Finally, I'd find the idea that everyone could be a Force-wielder to be one that watered down the whole idea of Jedi & Sith having powers and abilities the average individual doesn't.
I agree with this view. The Jedi hadn't seen Sith for a 1000-year period per The Phantom Menace, so it makes sense they would be complacent and ill-prepared when it came to training future Jedi to prepare for duels, battles, and wars. Worse, the idea of no attachments proved to cause more problems than it solved. I believe Luke in the now-legends EU loosened the rules on attachments to allow marriage and such to try to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past Jedi.
If one views the Star Wars story as an example of the "good triumphs over evil" trope, balance in terms of good destroying evil is plausible.
By pandering to feminists and SJWS at the expense of everyone else who has enjoyed the franchise since the beginning?
Apparently, there's an episode of Forces of Destiny where Han has to tell Hera Syndulla she pilots the Ghost better than he pilots the 'Falcon. Sure...
Funny thing, there was a post in the General forum where someone posted old commercials from the 70s. One of the commercials shows both boys and girls happily playing together with Star Wars toys that came out after the original film. So, I don't understand why girls/women need to be pushed into liking Star Wars when they've enjoyed it from the start. (Yeah, I'm sure :autism: comes into play here.)
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- Feb 28, 2018
So in other words, ignore the fans appeal to the whiners like MovieBob?
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- Jul 10, 2015
This has probably been asked before, but why haven't we changed the thread name to something like "Star Wars General" or "The Official Star Wars Griefing Thread" yet?
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- Apr 18, 2018
This thread was suppose to be about The Last Jedi, but it's more about 'What I don't like about Star Wars thread."
Anyway I don't like The Last Jedi, but people calling fans of the newer films disney shills, or soyboys can just be as annoying as the Sjws who see people who don't like them as sexist and racist.
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- Oct 10, 2014
I would watch a deranged Star Wars version of Fantastic Voyage with cringey Lucas dialogue.
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- Jul 30, 2017
I am so torn because I hated Last Jedi THAT much.
On the other hand, Lucas is rather infamous in his first drafts not being anything like the last. Remember, Vader was originally separate from Luke's father.
There's several different theories on it. Part 5 here is where Chuck goes into the creation of RotJ. Apparently Lucas originally wanted it to be "Return" but the studio suits thought "Revenge" would have more punch. After this got Star Trek 2 to change its title (no really, that's gone over in the video), the studio did some market research and found out the fans much preferred "return" as "revenge" would be out of character for Jedi.
Yeah, Lucasfilm used to listen to the fans. Imagine that a moment.
Yeah, I know a lot of people praise the Clone Wars series but of things I've read (and I'm watching it a little) I'm not sold on it being THAT faithful to canon itself. The original 2d Clone Wars (which I still greatly prefer) always seemed to me much more fitting of what the series should have been. Dave might be able to do a comparatively better job than Kennedy, but I don't trust that he wouldn't shit all over the films in his own special way.
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- Jun 27, 2014
There's a few prevailing theories as to why this shit happened the way they did, some more Autistic than others. What I can provide is contrast to other media where shit similar to what's happened in the SW franchise has gone down in the last decade. I'll boil it down about as best I can.
You probably noticed it yourself around the time Gamergate happened, if you were paying attention around that time (and if you weren't, I don't fucking blame you), and if not you probably noticed it with one of fucking dozens of other incidents just like it, be it Comicsgate, Magicgate (I hate the "gate" suffixing too, courage), shit like the Sad Puppies, the marketing of Ghostbusters 2016, and so on, but what's undeniable at this point is that there is a concerted effort to disenfranchise, slander, and harangue one particular group: Nerds.
In fact, that's where things get interesting: the general belief reported by the usual shriekers in all of the above is that Nerds were not only the source of all evil in the above, but archetypal misogynists who were responsible for all the world's alleged toxic masculinity. Indeed, a lot of the hysterical shrieking about a need to control and censor comics, movies, et al boils down to this, and while this might seem to hold some water at a glance, these complaints usually fall apart - quickly - when you study them closely - since almost all of these incidents boil down to cherry picking fallacy (or Ghostbusters Fallacy, if you'd prefer).
The reason Nerds are a target to feminists and other groups is a complicated one, but I think the biggest is that despite Nerds being... Well, Nerds, they've come to achieve unparalleled political and social capital in the last few decades, and they did it through their own hard work. And in academia and entertainment, Nerds fucking dominated.
Nerds fucking rule STEM, and the tech sector in particular. Many enterprising Nerds bypassed going to college entirely and went to trade schools, if they ddin't go directly into business for themselves. This completely bypassed the "prestige" schools and fucked over the ability of many schools to legitimately make money - and at a time when the student debt crisis has completely undermined the relative value of modern universities. Even in the collegiate space, Nerds never gave two fucks about postmodernism or the humanities - the very courses that are having to get the STEM crowd their McFlurries because they chose to major in fucking gender studies. This has helped foster untold resentment.
In entertainment, though? Holy shit, it's fucking hilarious. Hollywood got fucked by the Nerds. It got fucked Long Dick Style. The Movie industry in the USA is fucking dying, and only international sales are keeping Hollywood afloat these days. Conventional television is having to cope with competition from Netflix, Streaming Services, and more. Groups that previously thought themselves fucking invincible like the RIAA and MPAA have gotten screwed over by big internet, and the music industry has essentially left behind the big bullshit firms that demanded ridiculous sums for hardcopy albums.
The Nerds screwed all of this over. Even worse, the media is now dependent on those same Nerds for a paycheck. Damn right they hate that.
What's so interesting about this dynamic is that it sort of reeks of when Chris whines about how Asperger's sufferers are somehow impugning the dignity of "real" Autistics. You can see this in the fucking arsenal of self-described Social Justice types whinging about Nerds having the gall to claim oppression over the TRUE and HONEST oppressed people.... When in actuality they're almost without exception blatantly privileged morons trying to derail legitimate criticism.
This would be why there is an ongoing, never-ending attempt to portray what essentially amounts to a group of socially oblivious people content to indulge their nerd hobbies and do their nerd things as massively entitled threats to all that is, arguing that the Nerds are hedging people out, not being inclusive, and not being receptive to new ideas. The irony, of course, is that these claims are made by people who want to hedge the nerds out, make things exclusive, and hedge out anything they don't like.
You probably noticed it yourself around the time Gamergate happened, if you were paying attention around that time (and if you weren't, I don't fucking blame you), and if not you probably noticed it with one of fucking dozens of other incidents just like it, be it Comicsgate, Magicgate (I hate the "gate" suffixing too, courage), shit like the Sad Puppies, the marketing of Ghostbusters 2016, and so on, but what's undeniable at this point is that there is a concerted effort to disenfranchise, slander, and harangue one particular group: Nerds.
In fact, that's where things get interesting: the general belief reported by the usual shriekers in all of the above is that Nerds were not only the source of all evil in the above, but archetypal misogynists who were responsible for all the world's alleged toxic masculinity. Indeed, a lot of the hysterical shrieking about a need to control and censor comics, movies, et al boils down to this, and while this might seem to hold some water at a glance, these complaints usually fall apart - quickly - when you study them closely - since almost all of these incidents boil down to cherry picking fallacy (or Ghostbusters Fallacy, if you'd prefer).
The reason Nerds are a target to feminists and other groups is a complicated one, but I think the biggest is that despite Nerds being... Well, Nerds, they've come to achieve unparalleled political and social capital in the last few decades, and they did it through their own hard work. And in academia and entertainment, Nerds fucking dominated.
Nerds fucking rule STEM, and the tech sector in particular. Many enterprising Nerds bypassed going to college entirely and went to trade schools, if they ddin't go directly into business for themselves. This completely bypassed the "prestige" schools and fucked over the ability of many schools to legitimately make money - and at a time when the student debt crisis has completely undermined the relative value of modern universities. Even in the collegiate space, Nerds never gave two fucks about postmodernism or the humanities - the very courses that are having to get the STEM crowd their McFlurries because they chose to major in fucking gender studies. This has helped foster untold resentment.
In entertainment, though? Holy shit, it's fucking hilarious. Hollywood got fucked by the Nerds. It got fucked Long Dick Style. The Movie industry in the USA is fucking dying, and only international sales are keeping Hollywood afloat these days. Conventional television is having to cope with competition from Netflix, Streaming Services, and more. Groups that previously thought themselves fucking invincible like the RIAA and MPAA have gotten screwed over by big internet, and the music industry has essentially left behind the big bullshit firms that demanded ridiculous sums for hardcopy albums.
The Nerds screwed all of this over. Even worse, the media is now dependent on those same Nerds for a paycheck. Damn right they hate that.
What's so interesting about this dynamic is that it sort of reeks of when Chris whines about how Asperger's sufferers are somehow impugning the dignity of "real" Autistics. You can see this in the fucking arsenal of self-described Social Justice types whinging about Nerds having the gall to claim oppression over the TRUE and HONEST oppressed people.... When in actuality they're almost without exception blatantly privileged morons trying to derail legitimate criticism.
This would be why there is an ongoing, never-ending attempt to portray what essentially amounts to a group of socially oblivious people content to indulge their nerd hobbies and do their nerd things as massively entitled threats to all that is, arguing that the Nerds are hedging people out, not being inclusive, and not being receptive to new ideas. The irony, of course, is that these claims are made by people who want to hedge the nerds out, make things exclusive, and hedge out anything they don't like.
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- Feb 7, 2018
I think it's also important to emphasize that SJWs exclusively shriek about male nerds. One thing I hear constantly when the idea that nerdy men can suffer harrassment is something along the lines of, 'They don't anymore, and even if they did female nerds face harassment a thousand times worse!' In the minds of these lunatics, male nerds are extremely popular even at young ages and never bullied, while female nerds get shoved into lockers. It's so out-of-touch with reality it makes my head spin. The thing is, I think a lot of them genuinely buy this lie and aren't just spouting it for the sake of the narrative of men=privileged women=oppressed. That, combined with all the reasoning you laid out, combined with a special form of autism that renders them incapable of distinguishing between a tech giant like Bill Gates and a 40 year old accountant who just wanted to watch the new Star Wars films because he remembers them from when he was young, is a major driving force in why Star Wars seems so spiteful of its old audience and why SJWs seem to hate male nerds so much in general.
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- Jun 11, 2018
I generally liked Clone Wars 2008. By the time the final season came and went, though, I wondered what the writers were thinking with some of their plot lines and the decision to make season 5 nothing but four-part arcs. I think Disney may have done everyone a favor not allowing the final three seasons to be aired. I'm not sure what made the writers think that stretching three years of in-universe time across eight seasons could be a good idea. As you have seen, or will see the more you watch the show, events there will supplant anything that appeared in previous, lesser media that now conflicts with it. Dave Filoni may be a decent director, but having seen what he did with his version of Clone Wars and later Star Wars Rebels (based on social media sperging because I didn't watch that show), I believe he would write whatever he wanted - even if it contradicted movie canon - if he were allowed to do so.
I've viewed a few snippets of the 2d version of Clone Wars. Although the entire series last about 2 hours, IIRC, those writers appeared to know how use that relative short length of time to tell a cohesive story that focused on key events and successfully bridged the time span between Episodes 2 and 3. I believe the last snippet had Palpatine being kidnapped by Grievous, leading to Obi-Wan and Anakin being sent to rescue the former at the start of Revenge of the Sith. It was the perfect transition from the series to the next film.
I suppose that's my major disappointment with TLJ. Episodes 1-6 tell a largely cohesive story, imperfections notwithstanding. As I left the theater after seeing TLJ, I felt there was a disconnect between it and TFA and a huge disconnect between it and the original six films. I'm sure the switch from JJ Abrams to Rian Johnson as director played a big part in that.
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- Feb 25, 2013
@Null, @Melchett, @Alan Pardew, @Surtur or whoever, change the title to Star War griefing thread so I don't have to hear the bitching anymore.
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There's a youtube video floating around about that. The Clone Wars is practically a reboot of the whole Clone Wars era with how much it shuffles around what was established in the original Clone Wars multimedia project, most notably Anakin's promotion to Jedi Knight being condensed from 2 years into the war to 2 months or a radically different version of Mandalore. I thought it was enjoyable so I don't have much of a problem with that and its continuity references unintentionally implies prequel lore is like 90% untouched if count things being alluded to. That's pretty nice if you cared for anything prequel related.