Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[RodgerDodger]

Also when your industry has -6.8% growth for the year, it's not a good thing when a small handful of people take another 0.2% potential growth out of it in 4 months.

I think most of CG recognize these points are killing the hobby they love and feel they can correct course by targeting points 3-5. As CG can't really force comic books to be widely distributed but are praising Alterna for trying to get into more stores even if the quality is lower. Comics are hiring bottom of the barrel in talent (tumblr) to save money and this affects the quality of the books, include rising prices for worse products and you get trouble brewing. Now add complete unprofessional-ism from the creators, which would get you fired from most other companies and is quickly spread and noticed by potential buyers and you get a shit-storm.

Manga is an interesting case because it follows a similar model, but is a booming in the West even with all the rampant piracy that goes along with it. There are tons of different stories and genres that cater to differences in audience in different books. Young men read shonen manga, so it's filled with stories full of action and fan service and are about overcoming odds, growth, powerful dudes, hot babes who want the MC, etc - This is what super hero comic books should be. Instead Marvel is being infested with fujoshi style stories, these stories feature homosexual relationships between men and are mostly bought in Japan by fujoshi (rotten girl). While Japan keeps the stories separate, Marvel is hiring writers desperately trying to smash them together and it doesn't work - most men don't want to read about homosexual relationships between other men.

Manga also is succeeding in the West, because it has very easy entry points. And really it is this fucking simple, the Volumes are numbered on the store shelf. You walk up and know where the story starts. It’s not hard. And a given title is consistent throughout creatively. Further you only have to read the book you like. Stories don’t go sideways through 18 different titles. Next time you are in a bookstore, look at the Mange aisle and note how easy it would be to start any given title. Then turn around and look at the US comic and graphic novel shelves...

 

[damian]

Manga also is succeeding in the West, because it has very easy entry points. And really it is this fucking simple, the Volumes are numbered on the store shelf. You walk up and know where the story starts. It’s not hard. And a given title is consistent throughout creatively. Further you only have to read the book you like. Stories don’t go sideways through 18 different titles. Next time you are in a bookstore, look at the Mange aisle and note how easy it would be to start any given title. Then turn around and look at the US comic and graphic novel shelves...

But...but...but the soy guzzlers told me print media was dying:

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Let’s the games begin:
View attachment 523655https://twitter.com/ronmarz/status/1031572594514898945 https://archive.fo/wYJ4m

Take a drink whenever someone says:

• “It’s not meant for you.”
• “It was always meant to be a mini series.”
• “Manbabies” or “Pissbabies”
• “Sales don’t indicate success.”
• Greatly exaggerated #1 sales praise.
• Blind praise of writer for no reason other than vag, race or sexuality.
• Any criticism is labeled racist or sexist.

Good luck surviving

It's a pretty good list, but to be comprehensive there's gotta be some sort of "Nazi" name calling included somewhere.

 

[RockVolnutt]

But...but...but the soy guzzlers told me print media was dying:

tbh Print is going to stay around for way longer then people give it credit for as at least it has unique qualities. The real thing that's going to die a horrible death soon is more television which companies already have no idea how to handle because their current plan to sell people bundled streaming services aka "cable except exactly like cable".

Tablets and .cbr files doesn't really invalidate owning physical books. There isn't really anything that is to print as streaming is to TV.

 

[Trilby]

tbh Print is going to stay around for way longer then people give it credit for as at least it has unique qualities. The real thing that's going to die a horrible death soon is more television which companies already have no idea how to handle because their current plan to sell people bundled streaming services aka "cable except exactly like cable".

I'm sure I'll see that death in my lifetime.

 

[Chan the Wizard]

I actually think it’s good to give outside writers a chance on comics. It might be bad or it might be good. If it’s bad, no one will buy it and it’ll be cancelled.
But woah Boy is that art bad. If that’s what they’re using a promo image, I can only imagine the horror of the images inside the book.

 

[nyess]

Let’s the games begin:
View attachment 523655https://twitter.com/ronmarz/status/1031572594514898945 https://archive.fo/wYJ4m

Take a drink whenever someone says:

• “It’s not meant for you.”
• “It was always meant to be a mini series.”
• “Manbabies” or “Pissbabies”
• “Sales don’t indicate success.”
• Greatly exaggerated #1 sales praise.
• Blind praise of writer for no reason other than vag, race or sexuality.
• Any criticism is labeled racist or sexist.

Good luck surviving

9 times out of 10 it's an artfag who says this

The majority of whom aren't in the business of understanding things like profit or sales or how to deal with customers

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

It would help if Riri Williams came off in some way likeable. Last I saw she was still a thieving, obnoxious little token.

Thank God Rhodey's back. I would pay good money for a comic where Jim Rhodes reads Riri the riot act over all her fuckups.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

I actually think it’s good to give outside writers a chance on comics. It might be bad or it might be good. If it’s bad, no one will buy it and it’ll be cancelled.
But woah Boy is that art bad. If that’s what they’re using a promo image, I can only imagine the horror of the images inside the book.

Theoretically yes, giving outsiders a chance is great But there's also a thing called "paying your dues". That would be writing an issue of a a few different comics here and there to prove you've got the goods and that you're actually a comics fan.

Or you could just throw the keys to an entire comic line to an SJW and just say "fuck it".

 

[One Man Bland]

I actually think it’s good to give outside writers a chance on comics. It might be bad or it might be good. If it’s bad, no one will buy it and it’ll be cancelled.
But woah Boy is that art bad. If that’s what they’re using a promo image, I can only imagine the horror of the images inside the book.

The thing about Marvel bringing in completely inexperienced outsiders, particularly those who have zero experience in any sort of visual narrative medium, is that so far there's been a pattern in which they have no understanding - or even really respect - for that medium. It makes their comics either A) incredibly wordy because they're so used to explaining such details in words and refuse to adapt, or B) they take the visual medium as an excuse to not try as hard, give the artist only a vague direction under the expectation that they will simply figure it out for the writer, and the end result is that the layouts are static, dull, and in some cases hinder the comic more than help.

It doesn't help that, so far, the last few essayists & novelists Marvel has brought on have treated comics more like they're personal megaphones rather than characters under the guise of "superheroes have always been like that," and I do not have much confidence that Ms. Ewing has much intention to be any different with how she's already cited several times wanting to project her personal experiences through Riri entirely because they're both black, both lived in Chicago, and both have similar haircuts.

The few excerpts I managed to find of her poetry didn't exactly impress me either:

 

[Woke Blue Muttlema]

With Ms. Wing I can predict we will have a Ta Nehisi Coates 2: decent start from a relatively respected author expanding lore no one bothered to do before with a huge emphasis in woke politics to end up being a self fellatio with the authors head so far into their ass no one cares about the sales until is too late.

Side note: Coates in alongside McGregor and Priest the only memorable writers of Black Panther, and with all respect to these legends The Atlantic Douche didn't have too much competition.

 

[Jub-Jub]

It makes their comics either A) incredibly wordy because they're so used to explaining such details in words and refuse to adapt, or B) they take the visual medium as an excuse to not try as hard, give the artist only a vague direction under the expectation that they will simply figure it out for the writer, and the end result is that the layouts are static, dull, and in some cases hinder the comic more than help.

Did you watch D&C review of unbeatable squirrel girl #35 with his 8 year old daughter? Holy fuck is it terrible, it's exactly how you describe; static, dull and flat angles filled with word balloons. As he describes some pages; 12 pages of moral relativism discussion and 4 of saying goodbye. Here are choice quotes from the book 'I believe the idea dates back to the French national convention in 1793 where they said Ils doivent envisager qu’une grande responsabilité est la suite inséparable d’un grand pouvoir.' and 'I am certain you're familiar with Dostoyevsky's existentialism but have you read Shestov'.

I'm an adult so i get this - the author is trying to appear smart and well read by referencing; great power... from the French revolution, the Russian author of 'Crime and punishment' and 'the brothers Karamasov' and a Russian philosopher from >100y ago. But according to Marvel this book is aimed and 'does well' in schoolastic sales, the targeted kid audience doesn't know or care about that - D&Cs kid is completely disinterested. Even with 'Crime' and 'brothers' being considered classics, they are probably only really read in higher literature studies by wankers everybody hates.

With Ms. Wing I can predict we will have a Ta Nehisi Coates 2: decent start from a relatively respected author expanding lore no one bothered to do before with a huge emphasis in woke politics to end up being a self fellatio with the authors head so far into their ass no one cares about the sales until is too late.

It won't take much to have a decent start - anything would be better than current Riri, but i expect 'wikipedia brown aka eve ewing aka lil muji pen' to out-woke Ta Nehisi Coates and only be self fellatio.

 

[popoto-chan]

I'm pretty sure Squirrel Girl is used as part of enhanced interrogation at gitmo at this point

 

[MidUSA]

Isn't it time to remove the poll now?

Doesn't feel very topical anymore, and by now we all know @KillThemCrackasBabies was the one who did it.

 

[One Man Bland]

Did you watch D&C review of unbeatable squirrel girl #35 with his 8 year old daughter? Holy fuck is it terrible, it's exactly how you describe; static, dull and flat angles filled with word balloons. As he describes some pages; 12 pages of moral relativism discussion and 4 of saying goodbye. Here are choice quotes from the book 'I believe the idea dates back to the French national convention in 1793 where they said Ils doivent envisager qu’une grande responsabilité est la suite inséparable d’un grand pouvoir.' and 'I am certain you're familiar with Dostoyevsky's existentialism but have you read Shestov'.

I'm an adult so i get this - the author is trying to appear smart and well read by referencing; great power... from the French revolution, the Russian author of 'Crime and punishment' and 'the brothers Karamasov' and a Russian philosopher from >100y ago. But according to Marvel this book is aimed and 'does well' in schoolastic sales, the targeted kid audience doesn't know or care about that - D&Cs kid is completely disinterested. Even with 'Crime' and 'brothers' being considered classics, they are probably only really read in higher literature studies by wankers everybody hates.

Marvel's claims about it being "for kids" has always been peddled as an excuse to ignore criticisms regarding the art, so it's unsurprising that it turns out to be nothing more than an excuse when you read the actual comic. It's probably even a double whammy of boredom from a kid's perspective considering they're much more visually oriented at that age and I don't see a single page that doesn't have at least 2 word bubbles per panel. It doesn't even seem like there's any action scenes while all this talking is happening, so why would a kid keep reading? For all this A+ totally not bloated dialogue that references literature that's above their grade level?

I remember Adventure Time going down a similar route where they suddenly decided they were going to teach kids about different philosophical concepts, and that pretty much lead to children to stop watching.

EDIT: So the bit where D&C mentions the ridiculousness of Squirrel Girl lecturing Spider-Man about how he should let Kraven go because "muh moral relativeism" due the the events of Kraven's Last Hunt caught my attention, so I went back to look at that comic. Turns out that Ryan North has at least read Kraven's wiki entry because the top of it features this quote from Kraven's Last Hunt writer DeMatteis:

As I was getting ready to work on the story, I was sitting in my office and looking through a Marvel Universe Handbook and came across the entry for Kraven the Hunter. To this day, I don't know if this was something that was established in continuity, or if whoever was writing the Handbook entry made it up, but they mentioned that Kraven was Russian. For me, a total Dostoyevsky fanatic, the idea that Kraven was Russian and had the same tortured, Russian soul that the great Dostoyevsky characters had, unlocked this door in my head and suddenly I had a new understanding of this character. I thought about Kraven and the forces that had driven him to be who and what he was. This was a character I had never had any interest in whatsoever. I always thought he was one of the stupidest Spider-Man villains ever, but suddenly I had this whole new take on the character.[3]

So the Dostoyevsky shit is a name-drop while also trying to look like continuity porn. Too bad North didn't read the rest of the wiki page though, because between all the mentions of Kraven being a wife beater and abusive towards colleagues on top of all the murder, it makes Squirrel Girl look like an ignorant cunt defending an awful person she knows next to nothing about because she personally hasn't been effected by his misdeeds.

 

[Water-T]

Theoretically yes, giving outsiders a chance is great But there's also a thing called "paying your dues". That would be writing an issue of a a few different comics here and there to prove you've got the goods and that you're actually a comics fan.

This. All the big names in comics didn't just get where they are simply by getting picked up out of nowhere because they had a dick and were white (which is how these morons think it worked). They submitted portfolios and writing samples to the pros, who then gave them small jobs (like writing fill in issues or drawing pin ups) in order to gain experience and learn the tricks of the trade. Todd McFarlane didn't start out getting Spider-Man #1 to himself - he spent the previous decade doing indie titles and fill in work before moving on to the plum gig of drawing Spider-Man. After the success of creating Venom, then Marvel gave him his own title.

Nowadays, these morons grab someone off of Twitter with zero experience or skills, simply because they resemble the character or because they fill out a line in the diversity bingo card. Then the book flops because they can't write or draw to save their lives.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

EDIT: I'll be damned. It was apparently a voluntary delete.



Another day, another drama... This shit is officially far more interesting than any of the comics coming out these days.

https://twitter.com/BleedingFool/status/1031904090924740609

 

[RodgerDodger]

I actually think it’s good to give outside writers a chance on comics. It might be bad or it might be good. If it’s bad, no one will buy it and it’ll be cancelled.
But woah Boy is that art bad. If that’s what they’re using a promo image, I can only imagine the horror of the images inside the book.

I’m almost wondering if this is Cebulski’s clever way of burying this hopeless character once and for all. Give it to some no name idiot off the street to write appallingly bad and totally racist stories. Thus giving him the excuse to put 5he character in the “never speak of again” locked file drawer.

Ah who am I kidding. It didn’t work with America Chavez. These idiots just don’t know when to quit.

I'm pretty sure Squirrel Girl is used as part of enhanced interrogation at gitmo at this point

Only because the Courts decided America Chavez was a human rights violation, even for terrorists.

 

[Haramburger]

I'm an adult so i get this - the author is trying to appear smart and well read by referencing; great power... from the French revolution, the Russian author of 'Crime and punishment' and 'the brothers Karamasov' and a Russian philosopher from >100y ago. But according to Marvel this book is aimed and 'does well' in schoolastic sales, the targeted kid audience doesn't know or care about that - D&Cs kid is completely disinterested. Even with 'Crime' and 'brothers' being considered classics, they are probably only really read in higher literature studies by wankers everybody hates.

I hate to defend this nonsense in any way, but I specifically remember learning Hamlet's Soliloquy(or the first half anyways) from a sunday edition of Calvin & Hobbes. But Squirrel Girl doesn't begin to even attempt to hit all the high notes that C&H always did.

 

[RockVolnutt]

Only because the Courts decided America Chavez was a human rights violation, even for terrorists.

"Ey, Papi chulo, you saying me Espanola is fake again? I'll have you know I'm SO mucho muy bien compared to your blanca putas. Chocha is my jam but I'd let you ride me like El Chupacabra. Just call me, chico."