- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
Time to get rid of computers then.
Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts
- Thread starter CrunkLord420
- Start date
-
🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
Time to get rid of computers then.
Q
QI 541
Guest
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2016
You know, there is one last Linux kernel you can trust...
Dona Sarkar's warm bosom awaits your troubled souls.
Dona Sarkar's warm bosom awaits your troubled souls.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2017
Windows 10 now has a Linux integration layer called the WSL, it lets you run a fair bit of Linux software natively. You guys should come on over to Windows, the water's fine :^)
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Seriously what the fuck? https://twitter.com/nixcraft/status/1041541316402970624 (https://web.archive.org/web/20180917065037/https://twitter.com/nixcraft/status/1041541316402970624)
Coraline Ada Ehmke reiterating that the Contributor Covenant is a political document. I don't think a large corporation like Facebook would appreciate this statement, considering they're under scrutiny from the government for political bias. https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1041465346656530432 (https://archive.fo/xZOZ3)
https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1041534615696166913 (https://archive.fo/OSpUY)
Signed-off-by: Chris Mason <clm@fb.com> Signed-off-by: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> Signed-off-by: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net> Signed-off-by: Olof Johansson <olof@lxom.net> Signed-off-by: Steven Rostedt (VMware) <rostedt@goodmis.org> Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Coraline Ada Ehmke reiterating that the Contributor Covenant is a political document. I don't think a large corporation like Facebook would appreciate this statement, considering they're under scrutiny from the government for political bias. https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1041465346656530432 (https://archive.fo/xZOZ3)
https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1041534615696166913 (https://archive.fo/OSpUY)
Signed-off-by: Chris Mason <clm@fb.com> Signed-off-by: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> Signed-off-by: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net> Signed-off-by: Olof Johansson <olof@lxom.net> Signed-off-by: Steven Rostedt (VMware) <rostedt@goodmis.org> Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2015
I wouldn't be surprised if Linus steps down from his kernel maintainership at this point. The silicon vendors own Linux now, ever since Android become the world's leading operating system they've been doing the vast majority of the work. At least when Red Hat were paying for most of the development there was at least some residual spirit of open source hanging about. Upside now, you don't have to spent 3 months painstakingly cross referencing dozens of HOWTOs every time you want to buy a new laptop to make sure there are drivers. Downside, if anything is open source it's only the very minimum amount necessary to comply with the kernel license.
This code of conduct is the sort of thing corporations do to cover their ass against consumer backlash. It's not the kind of thing that a benevolent dictator wants to spend his time arbitrating.
This code of conduct is the sort of thing corporations do to cover their ass against consumer backlash. It's not the kind of thing that a benevolent dictator wants to spend his time arbitrating.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
The reddit thread is quite a thing, also just got removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/ (https://archive.fo/jXz94)
https://archive.fo/COpua
https://archive.fo/COpua
First off, I'd like to say that I love Linux, use it for everything, etc. I'm not leaving Linux over this or anything. I just need to state my opinion.
As many of you know, as part of the 4.19-rc4 release Linus changed the code of conduct and took a temporary (hopefully) break. He's stated that he'd tone down his language (no more calls to "retroactively abort" people and such. This is all good, and I support it. One of my greatest fears is having my patch/contrition to a FOSS project be publicly dissected and ridiculed. However, it is important to note that Linus is almost always right when it comes to the kernel, so although I don't support the cursing and personal attacks I definitely am OK with Linus being a bit of a bully because it appears to work and keeps crap code out of the kernel, which IMO is more important than one dev's feelings for the day. People bounce back quickly, recovering from security vulnerabilities or majorly broken userspace is no so easy. All in all I support Linus' decision to tone down a bit as long as he doesn't get too soft.
The biggest problem, however, is the new "Code of Conduct." Until now, Linux had a "Code of Conflict" that set down few rules and was generally pretty nonrestrictive. It has been replaced with a new CoC derived from the Contributor's Covenant (used by X.Org and Freedesktop.org, as well as a few other OSS projects). Although this seems like a good idea at face value, this is extremely detrimental to the Linux kernel as a whole. Lets look at some reasons:
1st, the Contributor Covenant was written by Coraline Ada Ehmke. This is the same person who demanded that maintainer be kicked out of the Opal project due to unrelated political views. She is a self-proclaimed "notorious SJW." She at one time created an organization ("Culture Offset") that centred around boycotting GitHub. I'm not insulting her as person, just saying that she does not necessarily agree with the Linux kernel values, mainly the fact that she drags unrelated political issues into software, which is completely against the Linux code-only meritocracy.
2nd, the "benevolent dictator" model of kernel development depends on Linus having an iron fist on the kernel. Although he still does with the new CoC, he loses his ability to be honest with the kernel community. He can no longer call out shitty patches for being shitty without carefully choosing his words to avoid offending anyone, and of course the person submitting the patch is probably going to be offended anyway (or at least disappointed), and now they have a CoC to fall back to and use to defend themselves. The last thing we need is for Linus to get in trouble for accidentally misgendering someone or "other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate for a professional setting" (yes, this ambiguous, undefinable line is in the new CoC verbatim!) when calling out shitty code that breaks userspace.
3rd, the new CoC is fundamentally flawed in that it addresses issues from a political point of view and not a Linux kernel dev point of view. It opens with a long paragraph listing all of the types of discrimination that aren't allowed. The thing is, 99% of devs (except Caroline, apparently), don't give a shit. 99% never have and never will see each other. Furthermore, discrimination never has and is not a problem in the kernel. Linus is mean to everyone when they give him shitty code. He doesn't discriminate.
4th, Linux is essentially a controlled chaos of programmers with a loose meritocratic structure. People are always free to contribute, and by contributing good code you climb up the ladder and eventually become a maintainer. The new CoC seems to be written for a more rigid structure in which everyone is equally competent. This is not the case with Linux, and its looseness is its greatest strength. This is why you see Linux everywhere, because some college kid in his basement thought "hey, wouldn't it be cool if I ported Linux to X?" He can do that, and even get his code into the mainline kernel, without having to join an organization or sign up. At this point all that is known about this kid is his patch, only his patch, and nothing else. The Linux community should be free to judge this new dev based on the quality of his code. With the new CoC, this becomes extremely difficult as it is now classified as "discriminatory and unwelcoming behaviour." This is because the CoC expects everyone to be at an equal level in the community, which is blatantly false with Linux. (My total contributions to the kernel involve lurking on the LKML and fixing spelling errors in error messages and documentation. I feel that it is entirely unfair to expect top devs to treat me as they would Linus. I have no problem with people scrutinizing my changes more than Linus', because, in the Linux meritocracy, I'm in a lower class. I'm fine with that.)
In the end, this new CoC represents a new low for the Linux community. As of now the best course of action would be to revert the commit and forget it ever happened. Yes, Linus should calm down in his rants. However, Linus should be allowed to get fired up when its needed to keep the kernel in one piece, which is what the new CoC prevents.
I am tempted to believe the rumours that SJWs found some dirt on Linus and bullied him into this. This seems VERY un-Linusy and I am completely shocked that he approve this. It just doesn't seem possible that Linus would willingly surrender his rights to rip into people over crap code. He almost seems to enjoy it!
I've started to become Linus here and start ranting, so I'm going to end this rant with a TL;DR:
The new CoC represents a new low for the Linux kernel and destroys the structure that has allowed Linux to become what it is today, focusing on political correctness and "diversity and inclusion" instead of Linux kernel development.
As many of you know, as part of the 4.19-rc4 release Linus changed the code of conduct and took a temporary (hopefully) break. He's stated that he'd tone down his language (no more calls to "retroactively abort" people and such. This is all good, and I support it. One of my greatest fears is having my patch/contrition to a FOSS project be publicly dissected and ridiculed. However, it is important to note that Linus is almost always right when it comes to the kernel, so although I don't support the cursing and personal attacks I definitely am OK with Linus being a bit of a bully because it appears to work and keeps crap code out of the kernel, which IMO is more important than one dev's feelings for the day. People bounce back quickly, recovering from security vulnerabilities or majorly broken userspace is no so easy. All in all I support Linus' decision to tone down a bit as long as he doesn't get too soft.
The biggest problem, however, is the new "Code of Conduct." Until now, Linux had a "Code of Conflict" that set down few rules and was generally pretty nonrestrictive. It has been replaced with a new CoC derived from the Contributor's Covenant (used by X.Org and Freedesktop.org, as well as a few other OSS projects). Although this seems like a good idea at face value, this is extremely detrimental to the Linux kernel as a whole. Lets look at some reasons:
1st, the Contributor Covenant was written by Coraline Ada Ehmke. This is the same person who demanded that maintainer be kicked out of the Opal project due to unrelated political views. She is a self-proclaimed "notorious SJW." She at one time created an organization ("Culture Offset") that centred around boycotting GitHub. I'm not insulting her as person, just saying that she does not necessarily agree with the Linux kernel values, mainly the fact that she drags unrelated political issues into software, which is completely against the Linux code-only meritocracy.
2nd, the "benevolent dictator" model of kernel development depends on Linus having an iron fist on the kernel. Although he still does with the new CoC, he loses his ability to be honest with the kernel community. He can no longer call out shitty patches for being shitty without carefully choosing his words to avoid offending anyone, and of course the person submitting the patch is probably going to be offended anyway (or at least disappointed), and now they have a CoC to fall back to and use to defend themselves. The last thing we need is for Linus to get in trouble for accidentally misgendering someone or "other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate for a professional setting" (yes, this ambiguous, undefinable line is in the new CoC verbatim!) when calling out shitty code that breaks userspace.
3rd, the new CoC is fundamentally flawed in that it addresses issues from a political point of view and not a Linux kernel dev point of view. It opens with a long paragraph listing all of the types of discrimination that aren't allowed. The thing is, 99% of devs (except Caroline, apparently), don't give a shit. 99% never have and never will see each other. Furthermore, discrimination never has and is not a problem in the kernel. Linus is mean to everyone when they give him shitty code. He doesn't discriminate.
4th, Linux is essentially a controlled chaos of programmers with a loose meritocratic structure. People are always free to contribute, and by contributing good code you climb up the ladder and eventually become a maintainer. The new CoC seems to be written for a more rigid structure in which everyone is equally competent. This is not the case with Linux, and its looseness is its greatest strength. This is why you see Linux everywhere, because some college kid in his basement thought "hey, wouldn't it be cool if I ported Linux to X?" He can do that, and even get his code into the mainline kernel, without having to join an organization or sign up. At this point all that is known about this kid is his patch, only his patch, and nothing else. The Linux community should be free to judge this new dev based on the quality of his code. With the new CoC, this becomes extremely difficult as it is now classified as "discriminatory and unwelcoming behaviour." This is because the CoC expects everyone to be at an equal level in the community, which is blatantly false with Linux. (My total contributions to the kernel involve lurking on the LKML and fixing spelling errors in error messages and documentation. I feel that it is entirely unfair to expect top devs to treat me as they would Linus. I have no problem with people scrutinizing my changes more than Linus', because, in the Linux meritocracy, I'm in a lower class. I'm fine with that.)
In the end, this new CoC represents a new low for the Linux community. As of now the best course of action would be to revert the commit and forget it ever happened. Yes, Linus should calm down in his rants. However, Linus should be allowed to get fired up when its needed to keep the kernel in one piece, which is what the new CoC prevents.
I am tempted to believe the rumours that SJWs found some dirt on Linus and bullied him into this. This seems VERY un-Linusy and I am completely shocked that he approve this. It just doesn't seem possible that Linus would willingly surrender his rights to rip into people over crap code. He almost seems to enjoy it!
I've started to become Linus here and start ranting, so I'm going to end this rant with a TL;DR:
The new CoC represents a new low for the Linux kernel and destroys the structure that has allowed Linux to become what it is today, focusing on political correctness and "diversity and inclusion" instead of Linux kernel development.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2018
Man these faggots manage to weasel their way into everything, don't they? First FreeBSD, now the Linux kernel. And the thing that kills me is that the Linux kernel is WAYYY to large to fork and maintain effectively be even a small group of people, just due to the sheer amount of device drivers. Like, this won't kill Linux, but it's not good at all.
CIA Nigger
Not a fed, just a random object on the street.
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 15, 2017
4 of those people are from 3 companies throwing down money on the Linux project: VMWare, Intel, and Facebook. All 3 companies also have diversity pages on their websites. Follow the money.
Also Linuses daughter is pretty big into diversity too and her politics rubbing off on Linus is a more credible theory than "sjw dirt" imo. For example here she is praising Shanley Kane.
She was also for this type of CoC as well:
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2018
I don't think it'll affect much to be honest. There's too much vested business interest in the Linux Kernel, you know, not to be terrible. Especially since there's no real alternative that works so well on so many different platforms and is so easily to use for hardware manufacturers for their own Gadgets and SoCs. While a lot of these have Kernels that are rewritten to a point where you can basically only call them "Linux-like" anymore, They still trace back to the base.
I think the day you can really say things went to shit is when stuff like systemd ends up in the Kernel, before that - not so much. Also while the kernel is of massive scope because of the supported hardware and legacy mostly, it's not that difficult to fork and make gradual changes to it. One very prominent example is the Brainfuck/MyQSS CPU Scheduler that gives a much more responsive environment for desktop use. It's done by one dude and he's not even an IT-Guy, he's an anesthesiologist. (Who also kinda got driven away by the people's hostile reactions to his work some years ago) Of course that's a lot less work than maintaining the entire kernel but if there's a need, a fork which just merges sensical/non-political changes and removes crap is certainly possible. There was just no need for it so far. Pretty sure it would happen if there is a need for it. I think it's a bit early for all this doom and gloom just because a few trannies are gloating. They live for causing reactions and attention whoring.
I think the day you can really say things went to shit is when stuff like systemd ends up in the Kernel, before that - not so much. Also while the kernel is of massive scope because of the supported hardware and legacy mostly, it's not that difficult to fork and make gradual changes to it. One very prominent example is the Brainfuck/MyQSS CPU Scheduler that gives a much more responsive environment for desktop use. It's done by one dude and he's not even an IT-Guy, he's an anesthesiologist. (Who also kinda got driven away by the people's hostile reactions to his work some years ago) Of course that's a lot less work than maintaining the entire kernel but if there's a need, a fork which just merges sensical/non-political changes and removes crap is certainly possible. There was just no need for it so far. Pretty sure it would happen if there is a need for it. I think it's a bit early for all this doom and gloom just because a few trannies are gloating. They live for causing reactions and attention whoring.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2018
E
ES 148
Guest
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
The main reason they want to implement that piece of shit is that because they are so fragile and untalented that instead of receiving criticism the hard way they want people to fear complaining in any way because if you do you are a racist, homophobic, etc etc and you deserve to get beaten in the street, shamed and expelled from the project
Found funny that linus said that he is going to create a filter in his email so it delete his insults in case he forgot about it
Come to window 10 we have gaems :U
Found funny that linus said that he is going to create a filter in his email so it delete his insults in case he forgot about it
Come to window 10 we have gaems :U
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2015
Mister God's code of conduct is like 4 books long. No thanks.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2018
What are you talking about? There's only like ten items, and the last patch update stated that the best rule of thumb was 'don't be an asshole to each other'.
Either Linus had a personality transplant or there is some serious blackmail going on here. Makes me wonder if esr was actually onto something.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2017
I wrote a piece on Medium (go ahead, call it powerleveling, I've made no secret about it) awhile back taking apart Coraline Ada Emkhe's Code of Conduct and why it was politicized crap awhile back, and I've recently gotten some very butthurt responses:
https://medium.com/@strangedaze/wow-what-a-tantrum-over-a-code-of-conduct-67050492867
https://medium.com/@alexwayfer/your-code-sucks-is-not-criticism-its-unreasoned-insult-7863da89884e
https://medium.com/@alexwayfer/it-looks-like-two-extremes-do-nothing-or-shit-on-code-4a1d6583efd8
These were recently submitted after Linus caved.
https://medium.com/@strangedaze/wow-what-a-tantrum-over-a-code-of-conduct-67050492867
https://medium.com/@alexwayfer/your-code-sucks-is-not-criticism-its-unreasoned-insult-7863da89884e
https://medium.com/@alexwayfer/it-looks-like-two-extremes-do-nothing-or-shit-on-code-4a1d6583efd8
These were recently submitted after Linus caved.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2014
Since around 2008, there's been a persistent meme that radical feminist groups have been trying to dig up dirt on Linus or set up a situation where they could bring him to heel. In programming circles, it's been something of an open secret, with the accusations ranging from women trying to get in with him to get a backchannel in to Linux' open source community to the fucking horrifying (evidence that at least one group was trying to get Linus alone in a private area, then accuse him of sexual assault). It had gotten to the point where many veteran programmers were refusing to mentor female programmers due to fears of sexual assault claims by feminist groups.
With Linus' sudden change in behavior, it would seem the worst fears of many industry insiders has come to pass.
With Linus' sudden change in behavior, it would seem the worst fears of many industry insiders has come to pass.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2018
Exodus, Leviticus and Judges are more than 10 items. Though knowing Terry he would also consider Ezekiel an important design document.
You mean someone made something useful with that Brainfuck meme language?
Ahahah, they actually gotten Linus fired, this is actually pretty nice drama happening right there. Is OpenBSD (Not meth-whore-BSD) next?