Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[ᴍᴀᴅᴜᴋᴇ]

Oh scans_daily, you just can't help but be exceptional, can you?

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/7916323.html
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CG must be totally about limiting LGBTQOMGWTFBBQ voices. There can't be any logical, tangible dissent against poorly written comics done by walk-ons who had no more business in the bullpen that I would trying to run a nuclear submarine. No, it's all racism/sexism/transphobia/etc/adnauseum...

In a recent Off-Topic Tuesday, the subject of Comicsgate came up and sparked a conversation.

Some of the conversation on that thread started to exceed our community guidelines on courteous discourse, so it was frozen, but it did start the Mod Team thinking about this topic and our stance towards it.

Because, the thing is that the Comicsgate movement is not remotely Off Topic, for us it’s very, very much ON Topic.

The fundamental principle of Comicsgate is to limit the voices that comics are created by, whether it be by women, the LGBTQA community or people of colour.

I dunno, but it seems weird to me they'd mention how Comicsgate is about limiting voices, yet they'd shut down any discussion on a subject they'd deem to be very on topic, if there happens to be a few contrarian opinions in the echo chamber. Hmmm..

 

[Starscreams Cape]

... Oh, and during a recent discussion about the choice of novelist Eve Ewing as the writer for the upcoming Ironheart series (a woman of colour writing about a young woman of colour), and that as someone with no previous comic writing experience she was a “diversity hire”, Neil Gaiman chipped in, pointing out that when he was hired by DC he had no previous comic writing experience, and had only some journalism credits to his name, and as such was in the same situation, but DC had liked his approach and pitch and the rest is history (and a few best selling series and some awards)...

Except that they didn't "like her approach". She got an army of lowlifes to beg on her behalf and then said "See!, same HAIRCUT! I'd be totes perfect for this!".

She's a fucking hack, which I'm sure they've already learned by now. To get inside CB Cebulski's mind for a few hours would be interesting. I mean, on one hand he's got to know how shitty the stuff is they're pumping out. But on the other he also knows he can't do one thing about it.

 

[Haramburger]

The "Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld" thing she's talking about was Heroes Reborn, a failed attempt at rebooting the Marvel brand after the 90s crash which certainly was not caused by "playing it safe". Heroes Reborn was also an attempt at licensing the characters off to other studios. After it failed, we got this run which ironically was a return to form compared to the state of the Avengers in the early 90s.

Get your history straight, Gail.

that era was kind to the X-Men but not the Avengers, yikes.

 

[One Man Bland]

She's a fucking hack, which I'm sure they've already learned by now. To get inside CB Cebulski's mind for a few hours would be interesting. I mean, on one hand he's got to know how shitty the stuff is they're pumping out. But on the other he also knows he can't do one thing about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's people at Marvel who, if CB ever seems to disagree on any pitches, just bring up "Akira Yoshida" and he folds like a house of cards.

 

[RockVolnutt]

that era was kind to the X-Men but not the Avengers, yikes.

That's not the early 90s Avengers, that's post revival in the late 90s. The failed ones looked like this. They got rid of all A listers and gave them matching leather jackets which Gail is claiming is "playing it safe".

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

View attachment 542948https://twitter.com/mindywheelerart/status/1041450252711149568

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View attachment 542947

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Is she actually telling people to write propaganda in lieu of good stories?

And at this point, I think there needs to be some Marvel Comics event that retcons/reboots all of the nu-Marvel shit out of continuity.

It's also a ploy I noticed a lot of proto-nuMarvel "creators" use to try and present themselves as being these wise, business-savvy gurus who know how to fix the ills of the industry. All you gotta due is hire them (or perhaps in this case, keep them hired) and watch as these bold, new, and most importantly young demographics start pouring in to support your business for years to come. It's why they always need to feel the need to paint every critical and financial failure as being caused by some sort of obsolete element in the industry, and once it's removed then those sales will definitely start pouring in. Just as soon as they stop listening to those damn CGs who want Marvel to "play it safe" by not replacing every character with an inferior version.

When did "nuMarvel" proper begin (at least for you)? For me, it began in 2014 with Marvel NOW! and Thor Jane Foster.

 

[AnOminous]

And at this point, I think there needs to be some Marvel Comics event that retcons/reboots all of the nu-Marvel shit out of continuity.

Call them all back to their home planet and have them die on the way there like Poochie.

 

[The Doktor]

Lol they're all for supporting minority creators. Except financially, of course.

Getting work from minorities without paying them is a time-honored tradition of the Dem party...

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

When did "nuMarvel" proper begin (at least for you)? For me, it began in 2014 with Marvel NOW! and Thor Jane Foster.

Razorfist (yeah, the lolcow) argued that Mark Waid's takeover of Daredevil was the beginning, and that despite acclaim from the comics media, was a financial dud.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Typing "Richard Meyer comics" into Google search will bring this up on the first page of results.

Gee...what a coincidence.

 

[One Man Bland]

When did "nuMarvel" proper begin (at least for you)? For me, it began in 2014 with Marvel NOW! and Thor Jane Foster.

I would say it was maybe a little earlier, back in 2012 when Carol Danvers was pushed into the mantle as Captain Marvel in preparation for having a female lead to compete with the Wonder Woman film DC was in the midst of making at the time. The decision lead to the Carol Corps, which caught the attention of a lot of the Kate Leth types and the now-defunct Comics Alliance who were happy to brown-nose to catch the attention of writers like DeConnick, and DeConnick herself received something of a cult following of fans who never bought a single Carol Danvers comic but were happy to shill out money to get the Bitch Planet logo tattooed on themselves.

2012 was also the start of Matt Fraction's run on Hawkeye, which was a fine run on its own for the first 11-ish issues and was well-received by fans and critics. But it also attracted a lot of copycats looking to replicate Fraction's story telling rhythm and humor ("Unsolicted opinions on Israel" being the most infamous one), as well as an influx of "T-Shirt Superheroes" and attempts at "lovable losers" like the god awful Spider Woman run the devolved into a creepy Deviant-art tier pregnancy fetish. 2012 was also when The Avengers hit the theaters, which received a huge fan base - a lot of whom were Tumblrinas who had never read a comic, but didn't let that stop them from wanting to make demands of both them and the upcoming films. Or draw a lot of yaoi of all the male characters and take panels out of context from scans_daily.

All of the above events meant that, by 2014, their was an illusion of their being a much bigger audience just chomping at the bit to buy Marvel's products if only the characters were more "relatable" to them by having more women, LGBT, and other minorities at the front and center. Not helped that they now had people like DeConnick on their payroll who had massive internet fan followings (despite those not really translating into sales) and Tom "we sell best when readers are angry" Brevoort who used internet buzz to trick comic shops into buying more books.

 

[SiccDicc]

Is she actually telling people to write propaganda in lieu of good stories?

I'm not sure since her bio marks her as a conservative - not that they don't participate in that, but she seems Pro-CG. I thought she was saying that the message matters to Nu-Marvel and not good stories.

 

[RodgerDodger]

And at this point, I think there needs to be some Marvel Comics event that retcons/reboots all of the nu-Marvel shit out of continuity.

There is an astonishingly simple way to make it happen, and carve out the root of the cancer in the process. Flash back to One More Day. Everything that has happened since is Peter Parkers imaginings of the damnation and hell that would occur if he sells his soul to Mephisto. He comes to his senses and walks away. Erasing everything between then and now and reseting the status quo. Poof! With the added bonus that it would completely unhinge Joe Quesada. What could be better.

 

[damian]

I dunno, but it seems weird to me they'd mention how Comicsgate is about limiting voices, yet they'd shut down any discussion on a subject they'd deem to be very on topic, if there happens to be a few contrarian opinions in the echo chamber. Hmmm..

Except the minority voices that are willfully ignored on the Comicsgate side, fuck those non-existent bastards.

Except that they didn't "like her approach". She got an army of lowlifes to beg on her behalf and then said "See!, same HAIRCUT! I'd be totes perfect for this!".

She's a fucking hack, which I'm sure they've already learned by now. To get inside CB Cebulski's mind for a few hours would be interesting. I mean, on one hand he's got to know how shitty the stuff is they're pumping out. But on the other he also knows he can't do one thing about it.

If C.B. posted anything other than food I’d have made a thread on him by now.

There is an astonishingly simple way to make it happen, and carve out the root of the cancer in the process. Flash back to One More Day. Everything that has happened since is Peter Parkers imaginings of the damnation and hell that would occur if he sells his soul to Mephisto. He comes to his senses and walks away. Erasing everything between then and now and reseting the status quo. Poof! With the added bonus that it would completely unhinge Joe Quesada. What could be better.

Anything that makes Quesadilla piss himself in anger must be good by default.

Anyone else think that the inability to admit “Yeah, I fucked up. Sorry.” (either publicly or to themselves privately) is what made Comicsgate possible?

A bit of reflection on the part of pros would have probably saved the industry 4 times over by now. Casing point, Chip Zdarksy.

The guy was absolutely hated by CG the moment he took over SpecSpider-Man. Lots of videos were made detailing how bad it was and guess what happened? He listened or at least a bunch of CG spergs think he did, the book has improved and has also been selling well since the initial disaster.

Early D&C review of Spec by Chip:

Latest D&C review:

(Also latest vid includes commentary on the current shananigans by pros <Scott Snyder>)

 

[ᴍᴀᴅᴜᴋᴇ]

I would say it was maybe a little earlier, back in 2012 when Carol Danvers was pushed into the mantle as Captain Marvel in preparation for having a female lead to compete with the Wonder Woman film DC was in the midst of making at the time. The decision lead to the Carol Corps, which caught the attention of a lot of the Kate Leth types and the now-defunct Comics Alliance who were happy to brown-nose to catch the attention of writers like DeConnick, and DeConnick herself received something of a cult following of fans who never bought a single Carol Danvers comic but were happy to shill out money to get the Bitch Planet logo tattooed on themselves.

So your saying DeConnick is basically patient zero? Guess we should thank Matthew for helping get his wife in the door at Marvel.

 

[Water-T]

Except that they didn't "like her approach". She got an army of lowlifes to beg on her behalf and then said "See!, same HAIRCUT! I'd be totes perfect for this!".

I love how Gaiman neglects to note that unlike Ewing, Gaiman wasn't given a solo book gig right off the bat. He got started writing short stories for a British sci-fi anthology book and some indie comics for a few years before DC gave him a chance to reinvent a D-list hero into his Sandman series. That is a far cry from picking up some chick off the street and saying, "Hey, let's put you on a flagship book because you've got the same hairstyle as the character!"

 

[One Man Bland]

So your saying DeConnick is basically patient zero? Guess we should thank Matthew for helping get his wife in the door at Marvel.

I'm not sure I would call any one person "Patient Zero," since there's really not one singular moment or person that truly lead to the current Marvel so much as several factors working in tandem that created the perfect breeding grounds for hipsters and SJWs.

Hell, even the Razorfist video @Jetpack Himmler linked to that blames Mark Waid for the influx of hipster titles, while it brings up some interesting points, ignores the greater context behind his Daredevil run in that it came immediately after Shadowland - a Daredevil crossover event that was pretty widely panned because of how much of a clusterfuck it was and made Daredevil so dark and edgy that he really couldn't sink any lower without completely destroying the character.

The closest I can think of to a "ground zero" is/was Comics Alliance, since they were basically the place Marvel was hiring people from - Kate Leth had her comic there, Erica Henderson was a frequently freatured artist, one of the journalists who worked for CA went on to be a editor for pretty much all the SJW titles, the list of nepotism that was bred there goes on - but even then CA was only able to become this because of the writers & editors who didn't mind cozying up to those journalists before cutting out the middle man and hiring straight from Twitter.

 

[damian]

https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1041386240703164418 https://archive.fo/EAqiM

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https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1041796155842150405 https://archive.fo/Mjy9U

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[AJ 447]

Obviously the character was meant to have an over-the-top, cheesecake design, but I do kinda dig the Sailor Moon meets Harley Quinn vibe that's going on.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Anyone else think that the inability to admit “Yeah, I fucked up. Sorry.” (either publicly or to themselves privately) is what made Comicsgate possible?

Hell, that's what makes most 'consumer revolts' possible. Regardless of what's being sold. If you can't admit error, you keep making the same mistakes, and it eventually drags you down.