Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Done]

It's a bit more insidious than that: Marvel insists that comic shop owners buy a minimum amount of the lowselling titles to even qualify for ordering the better selling comics and merch...and even after that they overship the lowselling ones.

Isn't that an Anti-trust law violation?

 

[Hatoful Dandy]

Isn't that an Anti-trust law violation?

I have a feeling that being owned by Disney kinda makes these things go away...

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

According to ComiChron he's correct about 2016 being a successful year. However, sales fell off a cliff afterwards:
http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html

But back to the current day - this month has been worse for the industry overall than September last year, but Marvel has sold more copies of a couple of lines of flagship books (but they have been doing terribly in recent years and the sales are only remarkable because they're being compared to large failures in previous years):
"That was a $43.52 million month, and while it closed out the worst quarter year-over-year (off nearly 16% in dollar terms) in nearly a decade and a half, it was the best of the three summer months in comparison with the same month the previous year. Marvel sales were up year-over-year, breaking a long slump, thanks to the chart-topping Marvel Legacy #1."

Obviously, the month isn't over yet, though.

Weirdly, the site has listings for months that haven't happened yet, they seem to be using some kind of automation that uses existing statistics for the year, compares them to previous years, creates sentences comparing them, and then automatically generates an article. December 2018:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2018/2018-12.html

Regardless of all this, I seem to remember D&C saying in an old video that the sales figures are due to the comics companies forcing bookstores to buy set amounts of books and won't refund them for unsold copies (which is why so many shops are going out of business) and that stores that refuse to do this are blacklisted. So these figures probably aren't reliable.

Yep, it's totally the best years ever for comics and that's why IDW publishing is bleeding money like a fucking stuck pig. The 5th largest publishing house in the last 9 months has lost a staggering $2.5m and recently had $5m pumped into it in a bridgeing loan to keep the damn lights on.

ComicChron operates on "units shipped" and is rubbish in that regard to any real metric of how things are actually selling, with most comics bumping along in the 10-20k bracket when we can dig deeper and find more "real" sales figures floating around.

The problem is most of the comic book stores are independents still and there's no easy way to discern who's selling what and in what numbers. Doubly so as Marvel offers an "incentive" on over-ordering #1's and special events.

Indeed the only real metric we can probably go by isn't the initial orders themselves which we know Marvel inflates out the wazoo, but the re-orders. Venom of all things (likely a bounce on the back of the movie due out in October starring Tom Hardy) is seeing surprisingly strong reorders, with the average reordering of #1-#4 coming in at about 6k each to match new demand of Venom topping in at a surprising 63k. If you need to reorder then you know the first published figures are accurate.

 

[Done]

Yep, it's totally the best years ever for comics and that's why IDW publishing is bleeding money like a fucking stuck pig. The 5th largest publishing house in the last 9 months has lost a staggering $2.5m and recently had $5m pumped into it in a bridgeing loan to keep the damn lights on.

ComicChron operates on "units shipped" and is rubbish in that regard to any real metric of how things are actually selling, with most comics bumping along in the 10-20k bracket when we can dig deeper and find more "real" sales figures floating around.

The problem is most of the comic book stores are independents still and there's no easy way to discern who's selling what and in what numbers. Doubly so as Marvel offers an "incentive" on over-ordering #1's and special events.

Indeed the only real metric we can probably go by isn't the initial orders themselves which we know Marvel inflates out the wazoo, but the re-orders. Venom of all things (likely a bounce on the back of the movie due out in October starring Tom Hardy) is seeing surprisingly strong reorders, with the average reordering of #1-#4 coming in at about 6k each to match new demand of Venom topping in at a surprising 63k. If you need to reorder then you know the first published figures are accurate.

This.

You can't claim to understand an industry's sales metrics unless you have an understanding of both its "sell-in" and "sell-out" (the 1st is sales to the shops, which are essentially ComicChron's numbers, and the latter are the shop's sales to consumers, which is what really matters, because it's what keeps those stores alive, and with them the industry).

Also, I am curious if whoever is considering these years to be successful for Comics is measuring things in value or units? Because it it's value, then you most definitely need to adjust for inflation, and I am so very sure that analysis outcome won't be in Marvel's favor.. And even if it's in units or inflation-adjusted value, then you need to keep in mind that the business needs to grow, and thus, a flat sales trend is NOT good nor acceptable, in fact, it's the very rationale being given to us by those pushing SJWism, and well, this thread is a result of that lol.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Sales are a bad indication of quality, they are however an excellent indication of success.

Fun question how much of the sales do they really think go out to American minorities? Considering they're asking 5-8 dollary doo's from poor people for each short, ad ridden comic and only sell in niche stores I'm guessing you actual sales are still made of white dudes with cash to burn.

I've mentioned this before but I really think Marvel needs to look at UK sales if they want to actually sell to black people and mexicans, because no matter how woke you are, you're always going to loose out to groceries when you charge 8 dollars for a 15 minute read. Whereas in the UK you can get a monthly marvel double comic for about £4 printing on toilet paper from any local newpaper outlet.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

This is something I have observed: you rarely hear about second printings any more. I recall that Green Lantern Rebirth #1 had around four printings nearly fifteen years ago. That must say something about the industry.

 

[Chaos Theorist]

Sales are a bad indication of quality, they are however an excellent indication of success.

Fun question how much of the sales do they really think go out to American minorities? Considering they're asking 5-8 dollary doo's from poor people for each short, ad ridden comic and only sell in niche stores I'm guessing you actual sales are still made of white dudes with cash to burn.

I've mentioned this before but I really think Marvel needs to look at UK sales if they want to actually sell to black people and mexicans, because no matter how woke you are, you're always going to loose out to groceries when you charge 8 dollars for a 15 minute read. Whereas in the UK you can get a monthly marvel double comic for about £4 printing on toilet paper from any local newpaper outlet.

Thats because the comics are reprints and Panini and Titan Comics knows exactly that they wont get away with overcharging for reprints, the only mainstream comic with original material going is 2000AD which has a huge cult following and a huge backlog of old stories which they collect and sell as trades.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Sales are a bad indication of quality, they are however an excellent indication of success.

Fun question how much of the sales do they really think go out to American minorities? Considering they're asking 5-8 dollary doo's from poor people for each short, ad ridden comic and only sell in niche stores I'm guessing you actual sales are still made of white dudes with cash to burn.

I've mentioned this before but I really think Marvel needs to look at UK sales if they want to actually sell to black people and mexicans, because no matter how woke you are, you're always going to loose out to groceries when you charge 8 dollars for a 15 minute read. Whereas in the UK you can get a monthly marvel double comic for about £4 printing on toilet paper from any local newpaper outlet.

That's still $5.

What one should note with some concern is I went into one of the UK's premier Sci-Fi and geekdom stores the other day. The legendary Forbidden Planet. Inside were Marvel Cinematic Universe posters, Deadpool Plushies, hardback anthologies from Marvel and DC, Funkopop figurines and shelf after shelf after shelf after shelf of manga. Like, even more obscure looking titles alongside the usual normie stuff like AoT, Naruto and One Piece.

New Issues? Oh dear, the new issues were hidden away behind a display of Pokeman and Minecraft stuff in a dim corner because "so little sells". They made more money off of geek merch and manga than they did off of the usual comics houses.

 

[One Man Bland]

In the past I had assumed that the SJWfication of comic-books was a(n extremely unpleasant) symptom of an already suffering and declining industry, and less of a cause of the downturn in-and-of its self. Sort of like a relatively minor disease taking out an already weakened host. Now I feel I might've been mistaken. Could someone here please help me out?

I would say it's still a symptom of Marvel/the industry's wider problems, it's just that SJWisms are more obvious and aggressively damaging compared to some of the other symptoms. Not only is the current strategy for all these new #Woke cape comics eerily similar to Marvel's failed attempt to cash in on the manga boom a few years back, but SJWs aren't even the only gimmick problem plaguing them right now.

Take that list Joe Quesada presented a few pages back for the upcoming titles , boasting that he totally showed all those damn dirty CGers that they still make plenty of "fun superhero stories." Except, when you look at what's actually on that list, the majority of the books coming out are of a another gimmick that's been leading to a major decline in sales for Marvel: events and crossover events. While they seem like two different beasts, events and SJWisms operate in very similar fashions for comics. They're both advertised as being game changers that are gonna shake up the status quo, they're often designed to invite a little bit of bad press & angry consumers because Marvel firmly believes "no publicity is bad publicity," and their gimmicks spammed to high heaven across multiple titles that often lead the original fans to permanently drop the book in frustration.

Since 2010, Marvel's had nearly 60 separate events compared to the 3 or 4 that would be made in previous years - half of these new events occurring in the span of 2017-2018 alone. When you also factor in all the tie-ins and additional reading that Marvel often spams to try and maximize the profits on a single event, there's a good chance your average cape comic is going to be derailed by roughly two events a year - which in the last few years has lead to characters who did have a smaller but consistent fanbase to drop the books entirely because they weren't interested in the events. So even if Marvel were to drop every SJW title and hipster on their payroll, they'd likely still be in trouble because the rest of the market is saturated with events and crossovers.

It all leads to the same problem: a bunch of out-of-touch middle aged editors are trying to connect with a newer audience, but rather than do actual marketing research or making decisions based on potential long-term benefits, they instead take the laziest and cheapest possible route in favor of instant gratification, and then act shocked when it inevitably proves to be a failed avenue or ultimately unsustainable.

 

[damian]

The over saturation of Variant covers is also a major player in this shit heap, for an example Tony Stark: Iron Man has the absolute laziest variant cover list I’ve ever seen:

These are the variants:

And they did it again, although with much better art iibh with Return of Wolverine (event). With 38 covers (https://archive.fo/cPkKV):

Variants part 1:

At least this one has a bit more variety than just alternate costume, but 38 covers is absolutely exceptional. Part 2:

Those are the variants available to all comic shops, these are retailer exclusive (Basically covers commissioned by comic shops):

EDIT: fixed wrong link. Added Wolverine Variant pics.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

The over saturation of Variant covers is also a major player in this shit heap, for an example Tony Stark: Iron Man has the absolute laziest variant cover list I’ve ever seen:
View attachment 547413
These are the variants:
View attachment 547416
And they did it again, although with much better art iibh with Return of Wolverine (event). With 38 covers (https://archive.fo/cPkKV):
View attachment 547420
Variants part 1:
View attachment 547421
At least this one has a bit more variety than just alternate costume, but 38 covers is absolutely exceptional. Part 2:
View attachment 547422
Those are the variants available to all comic shops, these are retailer exclusive (Basically covers commissioned by comic shops):
View attachment 547423
View attachment 547424

EDIT: fixed wrong link. Added Wolverine Variant pics.

What the fuck is this shit? Even IDW had better variant covers.

 

[ᴍᴀᴅᴜᴋᴇ]

How well are those 38 Variants of Wolverine #1 flying off the store shelves?

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

So what we're coming to the conclusion of here is the 1990s Comics Book Collapse.... the companies learned absolutely nothing.

 

[RockVolnutt]

So what we're coming to the conclusion of here is the 1990s Comics Book Collapse.... the companies learned absolutely nothing.

They get angry when you make that comparison and claim what they're producing now is nothing like having a book called "Bloodpouch the X-cutioner: EXTREME edition #1" with 20 variants in hope that some sap buys them thinking it's the next Action Comics. They're totally looking to the future now instead of banking on dying fads.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

They get angry when you make that comparison and claim what they're producing now is nothing like having a book called "Bloodpouch the X-cutioner: EXTREME edition #1" with 20 variants in hope that some sap buys them thinking it's the next Action Comics. They're totally looking to the future now instead of banking on dying fads.

You're right, it's totally different now. They're taking all the other beloved IPs and beating them to death with endless crossovers and 35 variants instead.

It's the Clone Saga all over again.

 

[Kosher Dill]

"Bloodpouch the X-cutioner: EXTREME edition #1"

I'd back that Indiegogo
Stretch goal: commissioning an authentic Rob Liefeld backer-exclusive cover.

 

[Judge Dredd]

View attachment 546828

Spoiler

View attachment 546829

Success.png:
View attachment 546833

God bless her, she trying really hard to earn a thread here.

EDIT:
Full version:
View attachment 546842https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1043251948621914114 https://archive.fo/HkgBN
View attachment 546840
View attachment 546841

Maybe they'd care about critical reception if critics didn't rate books by minorities per page.
Maybe they'd care about awards if they weren't judged by out-of-touch old men at best, and are outright rigged at worst.
Maybe they'd care about the respect of their "peers" if said "peers" were any way respectable.

 

[Flexo]

It's a bit more insidious than that: Marvel insists that comic shop owners buy a minimum amount of the lowselling titles to even qualify for ordering the better selling comics and merch...and even after that they overship the lowselling ones.

Just visited one of my city's comic shops. I think this pic says plenty.

 

[RockVolnutt]

Just visited one of my city's comic shops. I think this pic says plenty.
View attachment 547546

That Iceman stack is painful if you liked how he used to be. Still really don't get how people approved changing a character who's biggest flaw was his immaturity putting a strain on his relationships and skipping out on responsibilities into making him sitcom gay and then treating said immaturity as a "quirk". It's progressive to have some middle schooler's idea of homosexuals I guess.

On the other hand, seeing maturity and personal growth as less preferable to sucking dick is a pretty apt metaphor for the industry.

 

[PhantomDiploma]

https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1043251948621914114 https://archive.fo/HkgBN