Richard Meyer v. Mark Waid (2018)

Waid Livestream - What will happen?

  • Talks about the lawsuit.

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • Further incriminates himself.

    Votes: 18 48.6%
  • Defames YaBoi again.

    Votes: 5 13.5%
  • Doesn't talk about the lawsuit nor CG.

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Host disagrees with Waid on something, chimpout insues.

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • Normal interview. (no drama)

    Votes: 2 5.4%

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
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Aside from getting negative press coverage (as opposed to positive) it's pretty reminiscent of what happened with ScamKeysIan where they never really would have gotten popular had exceptional individuals not made them infamous by continuously sperging out over their shitty videos.

No. Anita was a symptom of a larger problem, and one that couldn't be ignored. If anything, ignoring the problem for so long is what led to it getting as bad as it got. Sure, us plebs could have ignored her, but that wouldn't have stopped her getting headlines and changing games. Even the threats were dismissed by the FBI as "not credible" and likely sent by her or her staff.

Meyer is more like Trump. The news media had to do 1 thing to beat Trump. Tell the truth. They couldn't do it. They kept throwing tantrum after tantrum, telling lie after lie. And each time Trump capitalised on it. All anti-CG had to do was ignore Meyer. Let him be another angry critic on the internet. They couldn't do it. They had to keep throwing tantrums and lying, and every time they did that they scored an own goal. Like Trump, Meyer drives them to madness with the most innocuous of things. And like Trump, those against Meyer are so divorced from reality that they do spectacularly stupid or horrible things in an attempt to score some kind of win.
 
Article seen in Rekieta Livestream:
Comicsgate leader is suing a Marvel/DC writer for defamation
Gavia Baker-Whitelaw — 2018-10-01 09:59 am
upload_2018-10-2_0-40-35.jpeg

Loren Javier/Flickr (CC-BY-ND)
This lawsuit is a pretty wild ride.
Comicsgate figurehead Richard C. Meyer is taking DC/Marvel writer Mark Waid to court, suing him for “tortious interference with contract and defamation.” Meyer accuses Waid of ruining his career in comics; a bold move considering the reputation Meyer already created for himself.

Gaining notoriety as a conservative reactionary YouTuber, Meyer is best known for provoking harassment campaigns against women, people of color, and trans people in the comics industry. He’s the comics publishing equivalent of Milo Yiannopoulos, and his behavior is widely documented on social media and in mainstream outlets like the Guardian and Washington Post. As for defamation, Meyer is well-versed in the topic himself, having accused several well-known comics creators of pedophilia (without evidence), and he described a female Marvel editor as a “cum dumpster.”

The lawsuit relates to Jawbreakers, a comic written by Meyer and drawn by Jon Malin and Brett R. Smith. Jawbreakers is an action comic about a team of former superheroes, marketed as an “apolitical” response to a perceived progressive bias at Marvel and DC. It was initially meant to be published by Antarctic Press (a small indie publisher), but they dropped it following backlash from the comics community. Several retailers promised to boycott the comic if it came out, while prominent writers and artists criticized Antarctic Press for giving Comicsgate a platform.

upload_2018-10-2_0-40-58.jpeg

Jawbreakers/Indiegogo

By this point, in May 2018, Meyer and Comicsgate were already infamous for stirring up trouble. Waid was one of the most high-profile people to speak out against Jawbreakers, posting on Facebook to say he’d personally informed Antarctic Press of Meyer’s behavior:

“I have a call in to Antarctic Press. Until I hear back, I’m (hesitantly) willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they don’t really understand who or what they’re getting into business with, which – though it would seem a stretch – is a possibility. If I do hear back, I’ll report in. Curious as to how they feel about publishing creators whose marketing strategy is to allegedly (*koff*) encourage their fans to threaten the employees of stores, and/or harass and one-star-review-bob stores, that don’t order their product.”​

Soon after, Antarctic dropped Jawbreakers. Meyer decided to self-publish on Indiegogo instead, successfully marketing the comic as a battlefield in the culture wars. Basically, he used this controversy to gin up further support—and characterize himself as an underdog rebel while Waid represented the comics establishment. He even accused Waid of threatening Antarctic Press and shared a post alleging that Waid got Marvel Editor-in-Chief C.B. Cebulski to put further pressure on the publisher. There’s no evidence that either of these things happened, and Antarctic denied both in a now-deleted tweet:

“FACTS: Mark Waid put a call in to our office. Staff took a message and told Mr. Waid our publisher would be informed. Nobody at AP contacted @CBCebulski or @Marvel nor felt threatened in any way by Mr. Waid’s call. We have not been bullied into a decision by any comics pro.”​

Meyer’s lawsuit frames Waid as his nemesis, saying that he personally defamed Meyer’s character and irreperably damaged his career. It describes Antarctic Press as “frightened for its very survival by Waid’s threats,” with Waid as the sole reason Jawbreakers got cancelled – ignoring the widespread public outcry from numerous other creators and comic stores. Meyer also says that Waid falsely accused him of sharing a list of comic store owners (i.e. doxing them), and defamed Meyer by characterizing him as “racist, serial harasser of minorities, and as affiliated with white supremacists.” He demands a jury trial and $75,000 in damages.

In response, Mark Waid enlisted so-called “Superlawyer” Mark Zaid, best known for his work with political whistleblowers and for suing Libya for $2.7 billion over the Pan Am 103 bombing. In a statement to the comics blog Bleeding Cool, Zaid wrote:

“Mark will aggressively fight this frivolous lawsuit with every legal means available but at the end of the day what will have the greatest favorable impact for him are the actual facts. Mr Meyer’s’ lawsuit will further reveal to the world his true nature. Ironically his own litigation will likely increase the professional isolation he alleges Mark has caused.”
Waid’s choice of legal representation is a reminder of how mismatched this alleged rivalry actually is. Meyer’s influence looms large in the comics community, but that’s because he intentionally courts controversy to promote his work. Picking fights with Mark Waid gives the impression that they’re somehow on equal footing, but legal action is a different ballgame from Twitter flamewars. Waid has the means to hire a good lawyer and, most likely, crush Meyer’s lawsuit like a bug.

H/T to Bleeding Cool
https://archive.fo/tNhEv
 
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Aside from getting negative press coverage (as opposed to positive) it's pretty reminiscent of what happened with ScamKeysIan where they never really would have gotten popular had exceptional individuals not made them infamous by continuously sperging out over their shitty videos.

History is doomed to repeat itself I guess.

@Judge Dredd covered this a bit, but since this is my wheelhouse, I can elaborate a skosh.
It's also relevant to this case, because I guarantee you're going to see Waid's buddies try to pull the same shit:

While there's a prevailing narrative that Sarkeesian never would have gotten off the ground if it hadn't been for the backlash she received, this is entirely inaccurate, and the entire thing was done to paint her as an innocent victim to the masses - and it worked, at first, with many people buying into her first kickstarter believing the narrative at the time (and also that she was going to make the videos herself and in a timely fashion, but we'll get to that). Unfortunately what these backers (and indeed, almost everyone) couldn't have predicted at the time was that the entire thing was a crock of shit. Sarkeesian had gotten barely any actual harassment, and, pretty much exactly as has carried out numerous times since (most notably broken down by RedLetterMedia with Ghostbusters) even a token, fractional amount of harassment was sufficient to craft the narrative, and on many occasions, when no such harassment was forthcoming, Sark's team just made the whole thing up, as was the case during the Utah State University alleged death threats that Feminist Frequency then proceeded to fundraise off of. Those were, of course, allegedly started by SomethingAwful, but let's not let logic get in the way of the narrative. Of course, Sarkeesian's staffers using the work of third-party trolls to push an agenda was nothing new: Autism Holy War veterans will remember that, during the early days of GG, a Brazilian journalist, Mateus Prado Sousa, was found to be repeatedly sending Anita death threats as well, but for some reason Sarkeesian never found the time to do anything about it despite it.

Really makes one think.

What's really interesting is that with the benefit of four years of hindsight, we know more about how this all came together than ever before. Years before GG ever happened, Sarkeesian had tons of supporters in the mainstream and indie gaming press who were openly supporting her, either financially or directly. One of my favorite examples was MovieBob meeting with Sarkeesian back in 2013, before the controvery with her Kickstarter had really managed to brew up:

tSL5X00.png


Thanks to the CON Leaks and GG as a whole, however, we know exactly how deep this rabbit hole went. and should you choose to explore it, I hope you brought a fucking flashlight because you're gonna be down there a while. The short version is that virtually everyone who was involved with trying to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of oppressed figure that was a monster that gamers themselves created was someone who was financially supporting her or ideologically lined up with her. They had their narrative, and they were going to push it facts be damned. It's not the first time they've done something like it, or even the most blatant (familiarize yourself with JournoList some time), but her entire allegedly harassment campaign was entirely prevaricated on lies and exploiting trolls with barely more grace than Brianna Wu.

I'm calling it now: As it becomes apparent that Waid's gonna lose, watch Waid's buddies band together and claim that the case needs to be dropped due to the harassment Waid is receiving from comicsgate supporters (as shown, evidence need not be shown, they'll claim anything that tangentially could be construed as harassment as such). Which won't fly in court, but it will be done as a sort of hail-Mary to save Waid's dignity (which also will fail).
 
I'm so glad that Waid's fate is in the hands of a bunch of normies.

Juror #1: Why aren't the comic books like the movies?
Juror #2: I love Chris Hemsworth, they should make Thor like him.
Mark Waid: [Incoherent Rage Sobs]

I bet Waid will be able to pay the judgement, though he'll probably have to sell some of his nerd shit. Best case scenario he has to give up his IP and YaBoi makes Irredeemable 2: The Ballad of Wark Maid.
 
@Judge Dredd covered this a bit, but since this is my wheelhouse, I can elaborate a skosh.
It's also relevant to this case, because I guarantee you're going to see Waid's buddies try to pull the same shit:

While there's a prevailing narrative that Sarkeesian never would have gotten off the ground if it hadn't been for the backlash she received, this is entirely inaccurate, and the entire thing was done to paint her as an innocent victim to the masses - and it worked, at first, with many people buying into her first kickstarter believing the narrative at the time (and also that she was going to make the videos herself and in a timely fashion, but we'll get to that). Unfortunately what these backers (and indeed, almost everyone) couldn't have predicted at the time was that the entire thing was a crock of shit. Sarkeesian had gotten barely any actual harassment, and, pretty much exactly as has carried out numerous times since (most notably broken down by RedLetterMedia with Ghostbusters) even a token, fractional amount of harassment was sufficient to craft the narrative, and on many occasions, when no such harassment was forthcoming, Sark's team just made the whole thing up, as was the case during the Utah State University alleged death threats that Feminist Frequency then proceeded to fundraise off of. Those were, of course, allegedly started by SomethingAwful, but let's not let logic get in the way of the narrative. Of course, Sarkeesian's staffers using the work of third-party trolls to push an agenda was nothing new: Autism Holy War veterans will remember that, during the early days of GG, a Brazilian journalist, Mateus Prado Sousa, was found to be repeatedly sending Anita death threats as well, but for some reason Sarkeesian never found the time to do anything about it despite it.

Really makes one think.

What's really interesting is that with the benefit of four years of hindsight, we know more about how this all came together than ever before. Years before GG ever happened, Sarkeesian had tons of supporters in the mainstream and indie gaming press who were openly supporting her, either financially or directly. One of my favorite examples was MovieBob meeting with Sarkeesian back in 2013, before the controvery with her Kickstarter had really managed to brew up:

tSL5X00.png


Thanks to the CON Leaks and GG as a whole, however, we know exactly how deep this rabbit hole went. and should you choose to explore it, I hope you brought a fucking flashlight because you're gonna be down there a while. The short version is that virtually everyone who was involved with trying to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of oppressed figure that was a monster that gamers themselves created was someone who was financially supporting her or ideologically lined up with her. They had their narrative, and they were going to push it facts be damned. It's not the first time they've done something like it, or even the most blatant (familiarize yourself with JournoList some time), but her entire allegedly harassment campaign was entirely prevaricated on lies and exploiting trolls with barely more grace than Brianna Wu.

I'm calling it now: As it becomes apparent that Waid's gonna lose, watch Waid's buddies band together and claim that the case needs to be dropped due to the harassment Waid is receiving from comicsgate supporters (as shown, evidence need not be shown, they'll claim anything that tangentially could be construed as harassment as such). Which won't fly in court, but it will be done as a sort of hail-Mary to save Waid's dignity (which also will fail).

Waid is a (straight if Incel) White Male. Nobody will give two craps about him being harassed, least of all his own allies.

LIVE (I was right)

Oh god it's wonderful!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Article seen in Rekieta Livestream:
Comicsgate leader is suing a Marvel/DC writer for defamation
Gavia Baker-Whitelaw — 2018-10-01 09:59 am
View attachment 556651
Loren Javier/Flickr (CC-BY-ND)
This lawsuit is a pretty wild ride.

https://archive.fo/tNhEv

Waid’s choice of legal representation is a reminder of how mismatched this alleged rivalry actually is. Meyer’s influence looms large in the comics community, but that’s because he intentionally courts controversy to promote his work. Picking fights with Mark Waid gives the impression that they’re somehow on equal footing, but legal action is a different ballgame from Twitter flamewars. Waid has the means to hire a good lawyer and, most likely, crush Meyer’s lawsuit like a bug.

"Crush Meyer's lawsuit like a bug."
Boy, I feel like these guys are describing Meyer more-so than his actual lawsuit. Reaaaally makes ya think.
 
No. Anita was a symptom of a larger problem, and one that couldn't be ignored. If anything, ignoring the problem for so long is what led to it getting as bad as it got. Sure, us plebs could have ignored her, but that wouldn't have stopped her getting headlines and changing games. Even the threats were dismissed by the FBI as "not credible" and likely sent by her or her staff.

Meyer is more like Trump. The news media had to do 1 thing to beat Trump. Tell the truth. They couldn't do it. They kept throwing tantrum after tantrum, telling lie after lie. And each time Trump capitalised on it. All anti-CG had to do was ignore Meyer. Let him be another angry critic on the internet. They couldn't do it. They had to keep throwing tantrums and lying, and every time they did that they scored an own goal. Like Trump, Meyer drives them to madness with the most innocuous of things. And like Trump, those against Meyer are so divorced from reality that they do spectacularly stupid or horrible things in an attempt to score some kind of win.

@Judge Dredd covered this a bit, but since this is my wheelhouse, I can elaborate a skosh.
It's also relevant to this case, because I guarantee you're going to see Waid's buddies try to pull the same shit:

While there's a prevailing narrative that Sarkeesian never would have gotten off the ground if it hadn't been for the backlash she received, this is entirely inaccurate, and the entire thing was done to paint her as an innocent victim to the masses - and it worked, at first, with many people buying into her first kickstarter believing the narrative at the time (and also that she was going to make the videos herself and in a timely fashion, but we'll get to that). Unfortunately what these backers (and indeed, almost everyone) couldn't have predicted at the time was that the entire thing was a crock of shit. Sarkeesian had gotten barely any actual harassment, and, pretty much exactly as has carried out numerous times since (most notably broken down by RedLetterMedia with Ghostbusters) even a token, fractional amount of harassment was sufficient to craft the narrative, and on many occasions, when no such harassment was forthcoming, Sark's team just made the whole thing up, as was the case during the Utah State University alleged death threats that Feminist Frequency then proceeded to fundraise off of. Those were, of course, allegedly started by SomethingAwful, but let's not let logic get in the way of the narrative. Of course, Sarkeesian's staffers using the work of third-party trolls to push an agenda was nothing new: Autism Holy War veterans will remember that, during the early days of GG, a Brazilian journalist, Mateus Prado Sousa, was found to be repeatedly sending Anita death threats as well, but for some reason Sarkeesian never found the time to do anything about it despite it.

Really makes one think.

What's really interesting is that with the benefit of four years of hindsight, we know more about how this all came together than ever before. Years before GG ever happened, Sarkeesian had tons of supporters in the mainstream and indie gaming press who were openly supporting her, either financially or directly. One of my favorite examples was MovieBob meeting with Sarkeesian back in 2013, before the controvery with her Kickstarter had really managed to brew up:

tSL5X00.png


Thanks to the CON Leaks and GG as a whole, however, we know exactly how deep this rabbit hole went. and should you choose to explore it, I hope you brought a fucking flashlight because you're gonna be down there a while. The short version is that virtually everyone who was involved with trying to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of oppressed figure that was a monster that gamers themselves created was someone who was financially supporting her or ideologically lined up with her. They had their narrative, and they were going to push it facts be damned. It's not the first time they've done something like it, or even the most blatant (familiarize yourself with JournoList some time), but her entire allegedly harassment campaign was entirely prevaricated on lies and exploiting trolls with barely more grace than Brianna Wu.

I'm calling it now: As it becomes apparent that Waid's gonna lose, watch Waid's buddies band together and claim that the case needs to be dropped due to the harassment Waid is receiving from comicsgate supporters (as shown, evidence need not be shown, they'll claim anything that tangentially could be construed as harassment as such). Which won't fly in court, but it will be done as a sort of hail-Mary to save Waid's dignity (which also will fail).

Obviously with her and Josh's connections in the industry she never would have truly gone away but I'm talking about the uberspergs who stalked everything she did (https://kiwifarms.net/threads/anita-sarkeesian-a-logs.16756/) which provided her a perfect target to point to any time she needed to deflect any of the endless legit criticism for her shit videos.

There was never going to be anything resembling a fair fight against her. By only posting videos she removed the ability to respond to anything she stated as fact and any attempts to debate or counter anything she said were easily deflected by her claims of harassment. And with the game journos at her beck and call she assured she had an audience and the fat neckbeards like Thunderfoot responding to every move she made she ensured she had the perfect scapegoat anytime she needed it. It's much easier when you've specific people you can point to at every opportunity than a faceless mob would provide.

Without a horde of Youtubers to use as tools she probably would have resorted to faking harassment far more than she would have liked to and when doing so one always runs the risk of slipping up and getting caught (see: Brianna Woo "Please harass me" Steam thread). The unfortunate reality is she never needed to because fat neckbeards were too obsessed with getting those Youtube clicks.

And what happened with Meyer? A bunch of uberspergs wouldn't stop stalking him and now a ton more people know who he is because his name's in the news now as a result.
 
In Rekieta's stream he makes an interesting analogy with a case also from Texas back in 1999 of Knox v. Taylor. The basic story is very similar to Meyer v. Waid here in that there are two companies, Titan with a CEO by the name of Mark Watson and SMGA with a CEO named Stacy Taylor that because of SMGA's computer surety bond system would help audit Titan/Watson's surety business.
They enter a contract and all is going well until an anonymous package and memo was delivered to Watson that listed the lawsuits that Taylor was involved in that have generally bad news as well as claiming that companies that have used contracted bond managers like Taylor's have nearly all gone insolvent. You can see the intent behind the package/memo here much like this case: dissolve the contract.
2 days later sure enough, Taylor was told Titan was leaving the surety bond business with 180 days notice of the contract anniversary. The investigators later found the anon and it turned out it was a president of another surety business, John Knox. Then he also sent it to re-insurers of Titan to apply even more pressure. The package was sent in late November, and discussion of leaving the contract began very early December originally terminating by the end of the year but then agreed to go with the 180 day warning. An important note is that back in July a similar notice of termination by the next anniversary was sent but in August Titan rescinded the notice and said they were "pleased to do business for another year". Noticing any similarities with this case and how Antarctic Press while maybe shaken a bit by the SJW backlash, was pleased to continue the contract with Meyer? You know what's coming, at the next available 180 day warning after receiving the package, Titan terminated.

Taylor filed against Knox (our Waid here) for defamation and tortious interference (same claims) with the Titan (Antarctic Press) contract. Here's how it played out.
kqtcvb.png


The section dealing with the specifics of the tortious interference are especially interesting to this analogy. Here I've screenshot a few highlights. Though if this is interesting to you I recommend checking out the full section to see more of the differences.
EVEN IF AP COULD LEAVE THE CONTRACT AT ANY TIME, WAID'S ACTIONS WOULD STILL BE INTERFERENCE
bmognw.png


JUST LIKE HOW AP'S AND MEYERS' CONTRACT WAS UNDERSTOOD TO BE CRUCIALLY LONG TERM
kjjnmz.png


SIMILAR TO HOW AP HAD NO PROBLEM WITH MEYERS CONTRACT UP UNTIL MARK 'THE PACKAGE' WAID INTERFERED.
lobxxl.png

Tfw there's a precedent that i meet all the requirements for losing the case.
xszvco.png
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It should be pointed out Meyer is breaking out as an independent thanks to CG. He has published works as far back as 2008 and they were minor but well received. Splattos latest works are all coming about because pro tards always screech about how critics won't put their money where their mouth is.

So Meyer does and the whales fucking love it.
 
@damian posted this in MW thread and should be reposted here (maybe added to the OP with the BleedingCool article in which MW essentially confessses)
Time stamp (18:34)
Damian made a rough trancript of what Waid said:
"That’s...It’s tough to answer, because I’m trying...you don’t want to give oxygen too much to toxic toxic people but what he’s basically talking about there is, there are....just as there are unpop I mean right in the world right now it just in the comic books in the world you got heavily you know male heavy um movements of guys who are trying to move things back towards white supremacy, back towards a world which women knew their place, uh that kind of nonsense, um and (they’re within the proud boys) or they’re you know this group or that group and Comics has you know a group or 2 like that too, Comics fans have a group who have better (inteligable) are to too and it’s changed, um tryin to say without inflaming anything, recently um one of them, one of these groups kickstarted a comic and great awesome they’re gonna do they’re own graphic novel cause they’re super, hyper conservative guys and the myth was, the rap* was that comics was not interested in creating conservative creators or we’re not, we’re throwing conservative creators out, that’s not the case at all, it’s a lot of conservative creators in comics, we, we’re throwing assholes out, that what we’re doing for every, for every conservative asshole who we don’t work within comics, there’s 10 liberal assholes who we don’t work within comics, so if that’s not, there’s no, there’s no political yardstick here, uh these guys created the, they did their comic, great awesome, then they started doing things like making a list of the stores, there was, there was a bunch of the stores that decided they were not going to carry the comic, so these guys made a list of those stores and their phone and the numbers and the names of first and last of all their employees and with the idea that “Oh no, don’t call them and harass them, I’m not telling you to do that at all.” (said sarcastically), but here’s their phone numbers and their first and last names of all their employees, but c’mon so, there was a publisher here in Texas who was going to publish their comic, where, after their kisckstarter they were gonna publish it for comic stores and there was a huge amount of hatred toward that publisher at this moment there was a, most people in comics, most fans of comics were looking at this as “How? What are you doing? These guys are, these are indefensible human beings.” uh they are, they, they harass women, they harass minorities, they harass lgbtq people, they’re full of hate, What are you doing? And my feeling is, look let baby keep his bottle , I, I don’t care who published the comic, I don’t care wether you publish this comic or not i don’t care but I knew the publisher and I don’t think he was aware of why all of a sudden there was this gigantic ground swell of hate towards him, so I said before a hate mob burns his place to the ground, let me call him and find out what’s going on, wether he understands (unintelligible) if he wants to publish it that’s great I don’t care but I just, I know the guy and want to make sure he knows why the hordes of Hell are defending upon him right now, that’s seems reasonable right? You know long story short, I did call the publisher and said “You do what you want and I’m not, I’m not asking you to not publish it, I’m not even saying, I’m not saying anything, I just curious what you’re thinking.” And the answer was “Oh my god, we had no idea, like we really didn’t vet this before we decided to publish it.” And so they made an announcement that they weren’t gonna publish it, uh that’s their choice, I wasn’t, i you know I, I didn’t, I wasn’t intimidating them, I wasn’t pushing them into doing one thing or another, I just wanted to, to look out for him, make sure he understood why people are angry at him, um and so that turned into what, me getting death threats every, you know 5-6 hours for a while, I’m cause I clearly hate, you know I clearly hate conservatives, because I didn’t, I said, I’m clearly I’m bullying comics, apparently I’m bullying comic publishers, I’m calling publisher and bullying into not publi-, if I can, if I can bully publishers I’d be rich, if I could bully publishers I’d be writing Superman tomorrow, I can, there would be so many things I would be doing if I were really, if I had a power to make publishers do what I wanted them to do, um does that kinda answer you question? It’s kinda, it’s uh, uh, people can you know feel what they wanna feel, ah uh yeah, you are, you aren’t, you aren’t with them are ya? Okay. I didn’t, I didn’t drive you guys out did I? One more question."

@AnOminous thoughts on how much this fucks him?
 
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Waid is a (straight if Incel) White Male. Nobody will give two craps about him being harassed, least of all his own allies.
The only woman that was ever in a "public" relationship came out as bi shortly thereafter I believe so that speaks volumes about the guy I think.
 
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