Trashfire The BetterHelp, CreatorHealth, InfluenceLogic Rabbit Hole - Candid 2.0, brought to you by Joel Robbinson

ah fair enough i saw marketing manager and SEO which i took to be Senior Executive Officer my bad
No problem. A glance at the minimum experience of 1+year in SEO indicates that they are looking for some inexperienced, cheap college kid, so really nothing special.

[This is my speculation]
It's hard to say what an "end" goal may be, as access to an individual's health profile (provided by users of the service) and access to conversational data that can be used to train an AI to detect individuals who may exhibit signs of disorders like anxiety, depression, etc.

There seems to be a LOT of money in this company based on how much they spending on customer acquisition and growth. And when something seems "too good to be true" and you don't know what they are selling, then you're the product. It could even be that the $60/week fee is just a way to appear like a more "legit" company selling services and not data. (there are additional reason for charging such as a sunk cost fallacy encouraging users to use this service more often since they "already paid for it").

I would speculate that the data generated from this service could vary widely, from tracking mental disorders, to training AI algorithms that can detect fringe signs of depression in individuals. As you said, someone who would be showing signs of depressions are highly vulnerable and (IMO) targeted ads like this could convince someone they have a more serious issue and they can/should talk to a therapist. I think I heard CVS was involved here somehow, so in the future maybe they could then prescribe some medications.

I'm not saying this will happen, but "worst case scenario" type of thing, this data could be used in very malicious ways to expand the drug industry. BetterHealth is trying to switch thing from a scenario in which you have to find a therapist for help, to one in which the therapist service finds you, when you see an ad.

No matter what though, there is no doubt in my mind that data is being used for something right now. It's just a question of how deep this rabit hole goes.

This may be just a hunch, but I think they are selling the data packages themselves to companies for targeted marketing. Basically what facebook does, just in the health industry.

What could be more intimate than a 'wire-tapped' therapy session - so there is lots of valuable, personalized data to be gained. The AI angle would be a further purpose for the data. The algorithm could target everything for you. This may be a long shot, but the Chinese use such metrics for a social/citizen score. Could you be a future offender? Maybe increase surveillance on you. For example.
 
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This may be just a hunch, but I think they are selling the data packages themselves to companies for targeted marketing. Basically what facebook does, just in the health industry.

What could be more intimate than a 'wire-tapped' therapy session - so there is lots of valuable, personalized data to be gained. The AI angle would be a further purpose for the data. The algorithm could target everything for you. This may be a long shot, but the Chinese use such metrics for a social/citizen score. Could you be a future offender? Maybe increase surveillance on you. For example.

Your hunch makes a lot of sense to me. That's how their privacy policy makes it sounds too.

Crafting an AI to mass target users on various platform does sound a little far fetched, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is work being done for this purpose.

Still very scummy to sell "therapy" service to all their users and then sell that data right to companies behind that user's back.
 
It looks like they've amended their TOS slightly to remove the bit about them not verifying the skills/degrees.etc of their counsellors. Strangely, they've left this bit in regardless

upload_2018-10-6_20-55-0.png
 
SEO is search engine optimization - looking for a seo guy is nothing special, since it is very much integrated into digital marketing, especially since this is just a tech position. SEO has nothing to do with a corporate leadership role, so just a normal job listing for a digital company.
Still, is to convenient to have this position open after the backlash. Like they fire the last person for not doing their jobs correctly.
 
Still, is to convenient to have this position open after the backlash. Like they fire the last person for not doing their jobs correctly.
Supicious? Yes but it could really be just the old one quit/left before or durning this, old one was fired like you suggested, or they were planning on getting an additional seo person and timing was "at the worse time" also as far as timing if betterhealth follows the goverment for fiscal years the new year just started Oct 1st.
 
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This may be just a hunch, but I think they are selling the data packages themselves to companies for targeted marketing. Basically what facebook does, just in the health industry.

What could be more intimate than a 'wire-tapped' therapy session - so there is lots of valuable, personalized data to be gained. The AI angle would be a further purpose for the data. The algorithm could target everything for you. This may be a long shot, but the Chinese use such metrics for a social/citizen score. Could you be a future offender? Maybe increase surveillance on you. For example.

I think you're going a little deep & looking too far.

They're owned by Teledoc. Teledoc (which at least with my insurance is fucking retarded as a call costs as much an office visit; I'll spend the extra $10 and visit urgent care if its that urgent) is all about reducing costs. And I'm not even talking about outsourcing, I'm saying you could have a bank of Skype Doctors in Boise taking calls from people in Mahattan. You can pay Boise wages while charging Manhattan prices.

They likely want to datamine depressed people's therapy sessions, find out what works, what doesn't, what things depressed people say, how they respond. The likely plan is to try to give ELIZA a medical degree counselor's certification.

Think about it this way: you sell insurance companies - and I say companies because that's where the money is, not direct to consumers - a "Mental Health" package. It includes a 'therapy app' with a voice assistant therapist. Sadbrains SIRI listens to you cry about your feelings, gives the right sort of responses and, here's the important part, can identify when its in over its head and need to tag out to a real human.
Now, Sadbrains SIRI can't replace doctor visits, but what if it can reduce weekly sessions to biweekly or monthly? Sadbrains SIRI knows how to participate in your therapy, giving your reminders, collecting information for your therapist, etc.

That's the most likely game plan, automated therapy (possibly with some "monetizing sad NEETs" thrown in on the side).

edit:
Supicious? Yes but it could really be just the old one quit/left before or durning this, old one was fired like you suggested, or they were planning on getting an additional seo person and timing was "at the worse time" also as far as timing if betterhealth follows the goverment for fiscal years the new year just started Oct 1st.

Completely agree. It only seems tone deaf from out little #woke corner of the web. Likely they are expanding and probably are getting another SEO person in - or maybe they were contracting SEO out before and are bringing it in house.
 
I searched and haven't seen this link posted yet, so here we go:
http://archive.is/5KREf
https://www.betterhelp.com/counselors/
It's a full list of their counselors. The archive link isn't working for me so just in case it's not working properly for you guys, I also attached screenshots to this post.

IIRC Teladoc is a publicly traded company that has nearly $2 billion in value and "acquired" Betterhelp in 2015. while no doubt there is a bunch of crossover, Teladoc is likely where you are going to find the majority of spin offs where each shares management and officers with each other in order to attract investment and either be sold or acquired and boost the parent company's stock. this isn't an unusual circumstance as long as certain procedural and regulatory rules are adhered to.

why am i aware of this? because in my investment club it was circulated that the Scientologists are seeing them as major competition in the existing online-therapy market and they want to break into it with their own initiative.
Hopefully that means the scientologists will help bring this scam to light. They now have the opportunity to discredit their competition, after all.
 

Attachments

Still, is to convenient to have this position open after the backlash. Like they fire the last person for not doing their jobs correctly.

Why would they fire a SEO guy after backlash? That's the guy looking for the optimum keywords for the website for it to become visible for search algorithms on other websites/networks. That's like a boss firing his janitor, because his legal department delivered a piss poor case assessment or the interior decorator choose an unappealing color for his office.

Imho it just indicates that they are expanding, and wanna boost their visibility even further, but it's such a low key position, that's it's not really much to go by.
 
Tbh I don't see the whole AI/Google conspiracy thing you all are talking about.
all communications transmitted through the Platform, may be recorded or monitored for [...] training purposes and become part of your file and records.
Just how are you getting "AI" from this? The most direct interpretation would be that communications can be recorded/monitored to train (human) operators/counselors, all kinds of callcenters do this - including suicide prevention and crisis hotlines. This seems entirely appropriate for a project like betterhelp.

E.g. recommendations from a paper on suicide prevention hotlines:

Establish a Protocol for Continuous Monitoring
Although all 12 of the crisis centers that received funding from CalMHSA were accredited, only two conducted two-way live monitoring (i.e., with a trainer or supervisor listening in real time to both sides of a call), and none recorded calls. At most other centers, supervisors were able to sit beside call responders and thus heard only the call responder's side of the conversation. Such quality assurance processes could be dramatically improved. Furthermore, in light of the high levels of staff turnover at hotlines (due to a reliance on volunteers), a continuous quality improvement program might make more sense than periodic evaluations of call responders' performance.

Recording calls is a good way for call centers to continuously assess the quality of the services that a hotline is providing. In conversations with two call center directors who record calls outside of California, we were told that the recordings are useful to call responders and supervisors in discussing challenging calls, and supervisors can listen to recorded calls if callers call back to complain about the care they received. In addition, recorded calls are often used for training purposes, and responders are recorded early in their training to acclimate them to these standard operating procedures. To record, California law requires that callers be notified that the call is being recorded, and some call centers may be concerned that such a notification would lead to increased hang-ups. As part of our evaluation, responders informed callers that the calls were being monitored. In no case was there evidence of increased hang-ups due to the monitoring, similar to the finding in another evaluation of suicide prevention hotlines (Mishara et al., 2007).

We may sell or transfer some or all of our assets, including your Personal Information, in connection with a merger, acquisition, consolidation, joint venture, reorganization or sale of assets. Such transactions would be covered by a confidentiality agreement.
You all are completely ignoring the limitation that sentence entails: they may sell your information, iff they are selling the company.

Again, that seems like entirely reasonable and unsuspicious boilerplate.

I feel like I'm reading ATS or something.

This post was brought to you by BetterHelp. Talk to a councelor or therapist now at betterhelp.com/trooningout.
 
Something that I find really conflicting and misleading is the things in the Terms and conditions compared to the "Study" they did determining the effectiveness of betterhelp compared to traditional therapy. It said right there in the old terms that betterhelp isn't a replacement for face to face therapy, but the study itself says its better than traditional therapy in all these regards. If it is so much better why isn't betterhelp a replacement? It makes no fucking sense
https://dy7glz37jgl0b.cloudfront.net/brand/betterhelp/press-kit/Study_of_BetterHelp_eCounseling.pdf

Also, I archived phil's own words here because the situation is oddly similar
 
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they may sell your information, iff they are selling the company.
"We may sell or transfer some or all of our assets, including your Personal Information, in connection with a merger, acquisition, consolidation, joint venture, reorganization or sale of assets"
"A Joint Venture (JV) is a cooperative enterprise entered into by two or more business entities for the purpose of a specific project or other business activity. The reason for a joint venture is usually some specific project"
" Reorganization: 1. Restructuring of a firm's operations, in order to concentrate on core activities and outsource peripheral ones, often requiring reduction in workforce. 2. Combination of two or more organizational units resulting in a new entity in which the combined units remain essentially intact."
"An asset sale is completed only when the assets (as opposed to the common shares) of a company are acquired by a buyer. The buyer may incorporate a new company or use an existing company to acquire selected assets, along with management and contracts. This means the seller that sold the assets retains ownership of the company, and must pay all of the existing liabilities and debts before taking the net cash proceeds."

Hmm... really makes you think...
 
Makes you think there's more blissful ignorance now than ever, it's like the longer people have access to the internet the further they dive into making it a part of there day-to-day life.
 
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