Trashfire The BetterHelp, CreatorHealth, InfluenceLogic Rabbit Hole - Candid 2.0, brought to you by Joel Robbinson

[SpergPatrol]

The sickening part about this is bad therapy can actually lead to suicide and I seen a bunch of people say their "therapist," told them to straight up kill themselves.

If this is the better alternative I hate to see what these Youtubers define as worse if this therapy is the equivalent of a 12 year old on COD saying "kys."

 

[Bon Bon]

Fucking hell, I used to watch his shit.
Stopped giving a fuck once he stopped making the serial killer videos and spoopy shit and started relying on political content because youtube doesn't like when you talk about people who rape the dead corpse of their victims before eating them.
Sad to see creators I used to enjoy getting dragged into this shit. But it's their fault.

Man I forgot about that guy.
But it wasn't just his horror stuff right? He stopped making Why Would You Put That On The Internet a little while before I dropped off.
He was before the curve with the Reddit reading trend but he just didn't stick with it.

 

[BrunoMattei]

The sickening part about this is bad therapy can actually lead to suicide and I seen a bunch of people say their "therapist," told them to straight up kill themselves.

I'm curious what the context was. Were the patients like "Oh man, my life sucks right now." And the therapist responded with 'LoL, kill yourself fagget."

 

[zerohitwonder]

I'd only heard of DeFranco, because if you halfway pay attention to YTers in general, how could you not, but this is the first I'd ever really watched him. The dude seems trustworthy, but in that way that all good confidence tricksters do. Going back to this vid posted yesterday...

just listen and watch at the 6:32 and 8:04 marks. He's doing that verbal Three Card Monty thing that hucksters use to bamboozle their patsies. He whips through all those pesky details so quickly and smoothly, aided by the jump cuts and the fact that he's talking to a camera and not a real person. This is how they overwhelm you into trusting them. After enough bad experiences with people like this (you never know who it's going to be next - an attorney, an insurance company, or a friend or relative), this has become a major red flag for me. What throws them off their game is to interrupt their flow by asking specific questions as they go along, then look them straight in the eye. It doesn't take long before they start to realize you won't be such an easy mark. But it's easy for him to do this, since the camera won't talk back to him. Anyone expecting anything resembling an "honest investigation into all of this" from him, given his position in the whole thing, is exactly the kind of sucker he's counting on to be on his side no matter what. Nice work if you can get it and are slimy enough to want it.

 

[Bon Bon]

Alright this might be a cold take but I had a thought:
Phone apps, usually games but it could be anything.
People eventually realize a monetized app can rake in a lot of money (I remember a lot of people being surprised at flappybird's numbers), on the condition that the user has the app open and is actively using it.
Some people want to make good, engaging apps, but it becomes clear that you can get just as much if not more money by pumping out low effort, deceptive content.
Creators of previously quality apps start overloading their content with ads.
Money completely changes, if not destroys the selection of apps available as the only active creators are making not so much content but vessels to host ads.

This, but with youtube?
Perhaps.

 

[the_watcher]

Just a reminder that Philip Defranco has a net worth in excess of $100,000,000; he isn't some Let's Player who will go back to working at GameStop if this youtube thing doesn't work out.

I highly call into question the networth of 100million. I'd peg him more at the 5-10mil networth. Imagine, if you had 100mill in the bank - would you partner with some scummy teletherapy service? You'd buy such a service or youyd buy your own news network, not scramble to build some 20person operation.

100mill is insane investment potential and I don't see him wasting his time with his current endeavors if he was that loaded. 100mill is what top level nba/nfl players with brand deals have or what multiplatinum musicians got, like drake, taylor swift etc..

His whole discovery sale/share must be heavily conflated. I haven't seen tangible proof what his % was, just some Twitternumbers or misunderstandings of basic financial work.

Don't get me wrong. DeFranco is a fraud, a liar and a hypocrite, but his whole business behavior or pull in the industry via investments does not indicate such a networth. He'd be working with a team of 300 people right now, instead of 20.

 

[shartshooter]

This drama reminds me of when facebook got caught identifying vulnerable teenagers for targeted advertising. We get rare peeks into the collecting and selling stuff like this, small wonder to see it in action too.

Lmao at boogie and the others saying “my manager/agency was supposed to vet this stuff and warn me!” What do they think the agency's job is? I give a hint- it isn’t to be antagonistic to advertising. The only real concern it the youtuber's image, ie the legitimacy to shill more products. It's naive to think people financially invested in them selling ads would have integrity on their behalf. And why turn down betterhelp when boogie will seamlessly weave his personal sob story with the product’s value? That’s called synergy!

Good for Pewdiepie actually having the brains and cynicism to call it out. DeFranco is a sleaze for even wanting to start an agency.

 

[Tanner Glass]

I highly call into question the networth of 100million. I'd peg him more at the 5-10mil networth. Imagine, if you had 100mill in the bank - would you partner with some scummy teletherapy service? You'd buy such a service or youyd buy your own news network, not scramble to build some 20person operation.

100mill is insane investment potential and I don't see him wasting his time with his current endeavors if he was that loaded. 100mill is what top level nba/nfl players with brand deals have or what multiplatinum musicians got, like drake, taylor swift etc..

His whole discovery sale/share must be heavily conflated. I haven't seen tangible proof what his % was, just some Twitternumbers or misunderstandings of basic financial work.

Don't get me wrong. DeFranco is a fraud, a liar and a hypocrite, but his whole business behavior or pull in the industry via investments does not indicate such a networth. He'd be working with a team of 300 people right now, instead of 20.

The number was never shared, but he is one of the few founding members of a studio that sold for a minimum of 500 million dollars (and suspected to be closer to $1bn). It looks like it was founded by 5 people so I don't think that 10% is incredibly off base (25% for each of the two first founding members, 20% for investors, remaining 30% split to the other 3 founders). It could wind up to be more if he negotiated and leveraged and it seems clear he's a guy who will negotiate and leverage. This is all before you account for how much money he made with Maker Studios and how much he made from his own channel, patreon, and merchandise. Maker Studios was getting a cut from PewDiePie, Markilpier, and the Game Grumps all at once, plus another thousand or so large channels.

I don't think that he thinks that he is wasting his time. I don't think he's wasting his time either. In 2012 he found a place to start and grow a business inside the "youtube economy" that he helped grow to $1.1b+ in just three years.

YouTube currently has a huge issue with advertisers, to a point where there have been two separate adpocalypses and advertisers want to spend money on targeted advertising but don't have huge faith in YouTube that the ads will go into a place that will get them a return on investment. Rogue Rocket was clearly created (and at no small expense I'm sure) to try and make a profit from this; by creating "genuine" and "organic" advertisements directly from content creators. To advertisers this level of engagement is extremely attractive compared to the YouTube model and it's way more money for the content creator (no cut from to youtube).

Considering that BetterHelp has been quoted as spending in excess of $1 million/a month in advertising alone and it's unclear how long they've been at it, but at least a solid year. Not only is Rogue Rocket at the top of that pyramid but it's incredibly likely they are BetterHelp's major partner for Youtube advertisements (or all internet advertising) one would have to wonder how much money Rogue Rocket has brought in from this one client alone; but I'd put it at least a few million.

If Philly D (and Rogue Rocket) are able to beat this controversy, the company is going to be insanely profitable. It's insanely attractive to advertisers as it's way better than the YouTube model and it's insanely attractive to content creators as they seem to profit way more than the YouTube model. He's smartly positioning himself in the middle as an ad agency and if he gets this company up to $1b+ again, it doesn't look like he'll be settling for 10% this time.

 

[BananaBlue]

Man I forgot about that guy.
But it wasn't just his horror stuff right? He stopped making Why Would You Put That On The Internet a little while before I dropped off.
He was before the curve with the Reddit reading trend but he just didn't stick with it.

Yeah, he had that show too which was just the typical youtuber format of reacting to news or videos from the internet.
Honestly, I never cared about that other stuff he did, but I understand why he would try to go that route. His type of serial killer videos aren't youtube friendly and a guy needs to have food on his plate.
Which is why he blindly signs up with scam services like BetterHelp. Sad but a guy gotta do what a guy gotta do I guess.

But phillip defranco? That bitch has enough money has it is. It's just greed talking.

 

[the_watcher]

The number was never shared, but he is one of the few founding members of a studio that sold for a minimum of 500 million dollars (and suspected to be closer to $1bn). It looks like it was founded by 5 people so I don't think that 10% is incredibly off base (25% for each of the two first founding members, 20% for investors, remaining 30% split to the other 3 founders). It could wind up to be more if he negotiated and leveraged and it seems clear he's a guy who will negotiate and leverage. This is all before you account for how much money he made with Maker Studios and how much he made from his own channel, patreon, and merchandise. Maker Studios was getting a cut from PewDiePie, Markilpier, and the Game Grumps all at once, plus another thousand or so large channels.

I don't think that he thinks that he is wasting his time. I don't think he's wasting his time either. In 2012 he found a place to start and grow a business inside the "youtube economy" that he helped grow to $1.1b+ in just three years.

YouTube currently has a huge issue with advertisers, to a point where there have been two separate adpocalypses and advertisers want to spend money on targeted advertising but don't have huge faith in YouTube that the ads will go into a place that will get them a return on investment. Rogue Rocket was clearly created (and at no small expense I'm sure) to try and make a profit from this; by creating "genuine" and "organic" advertisements directly from content creators. To advertisers this level of engagement is extremely attractive compared to the YouTube model and it's way more money for the content creator (no cut from to youtube).

Considering that BetterHelp has been quoted as spending in excess of $1 million/a month in advertising alone and it's unclear how long they've been at it, but at least a solid year. Not only is Rogue Rocket at the top of that pyramid but it's incredibly likely they are BetterHelp's major partner for Youtube advertisements (or all internet advertising) one would have to wonder how much money Rogue Rocket has brought in from this one client alone; but I'd put it at least a few million.

If Philly D (and Rogue Rocket) are able to beat this controversy, the company is going to be insanely profitable. It's insanely attractive to advertisers as it's way better than the YouTube model and it's insanely attractive to content creators as they seem to profit way more than the YouTube model. He's smartly positioning himself in the middle as an ad agency and if he gets this company up to $1b+ again, it doesn't look like he'll be settling for 10% this time.

I work in marketing/advertising. That 1mill as an ad budget would be a laughing stock for company that size. 1mill was just their Facebook marketing budget.

Just take a look at teladocs business report. 233mill revenue 2017. With a 350/360mill projection for 2018. I'm no general business expert, but it stands to reason that 60-100mill +/- will be their marketing budget as a whole, considering their aggressive expansion. So paying DeFranco and his cronies some nice shekels should be easy.

As for DeFrancos networth, like I said, only DeFranco and his inner circle know. I am in no way trying to defend him, but without hard numbers and percentages it would be all just speculation. All I can say that if he is 100M deep, then he either hides his business accumen very well and tries to obfuscate his real investments (to his detriment) or that literally Tyrone from Inglewood would have a better business sense considering the capital.

 

[CharlesBarkley]

I'm curious what the context was. Were the patients like "Oh man, my life sucks right now." And the therapist responded with 'LoL, kill yourself fagget."

Same. You would think a single recording or screen cap of something like this would be devastating bad press and be pretty wide spread.

 

[Jack Awful]

This might seem harsh, but I'd be fine with YouTubers no longer being able to shill products in the middle of their videos like this.

Over 100 big YouTubers are either too dumb or don't care enough to actually research the products they're advertising to their mostly underage userbase. They literally shilled a service that lies about the credentials of the "therapists" they contract to vulnerable mentally unstable people and treated it like an alternative to therapy. The fact so many also tried appealing to emotion by saying how "depressed" they were is pretty fucking disgusting and manipulative too.

Remember, this isn't one or two big YouTubers who did this, IT'S WELL OVER 100. This is such a massive, widespread problem that I'd honestly be fine with YouTube just straight up banning this kind of paid video advertisement.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the adpocalypse was a good thing, because these people are just awful.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

This might seem harsh, but I'd be fine with YouTubers no longer being able to shill products in the middle of their videos like this.

Over 100 big YouTubers are either too dumb or don't care enough to actually research the products they're advertising to their mostly underage userbase. They literally shilled a service that lies about the credentials of the "therapists" they contract to vulnerable mentally unstable people and treated it like an alternative to therapy. The fact so many also tried appealing to emotion by saying how "depressed" they were is pretty fucking disgusting and manipulative too.

Remember, this isn't one or two big YouTubers who did this, IT'S WELL OVER 100. This is such a massive, widespread problem that I'd honestly be fine with YouTube just straight up banning this kind of paid video advertisement.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the adpocalypse was a good thing, because these people are just awful.

If the Adpocalypse has taught anyone anything, it's that no one, not YouTube, its content producers, or the people who get to sponsor said producers know jack shit about actually advertising.

I wouldn't have minded if the thing took out a few of the top 'Tubers too, honestly. It would have saved them the embarrassment over this happening.

 

[Spectre_06]

Considering that BetterHelp has been quoted as spending in excess of $1 million/a month in advertising alone and it's unclear how long they've been at it, but at least a solid year. Not only is Rogue Rocket at the top of that pyramid but it's incredibly likely they are BetterHelp's major partner for Youtube advertisements (or all internet advertising) one would have to wonder how much money Rogue Rocket has brought in from this one client alone; but I'd put it at least a few million.

This is where things get dicey for PhillyD. If he didn't disclose that he was, for all intents and purposes, a partner and marketed himself off as an "honest broker" or a middle man, there could be FTC violations for failure to disclose this information much in the way that TMarTn and ProSyndicate were fined for not disclosing they owned CSGOLotto when they advertising it; likewise, the FTC already gave a freebie to similar content creators/YouTubers who were paid by those two to advertise their site without disclosing this information. Also, keep in mind that a lot of YouTubers were unaware that their own affiliate links had connections to PhillyD, and that many--to include Boogie on the Killstream--said that he had no interactions with PhillyD, was unaware of his involvement, and that his brand manager was the one who "got the gig" for him.

That is where the legal issues come up. If PhillyD withheld this information and people can prove it, the FTC may look at him as a big fish to go after, because the FTC loves hitting larger groups to show how much they actually "care". He's the YouTube equivalent of a household name, he has money, he's been in the business for years, and he should know better. He has all the makings of a terrific target.

 

[Jack Awful]

If the Adpocalypse has taught anyone anything, it's that no one, not YouTube, its content producers, or the people who get to sponsor said producers know jack shit about actually advertising.

I wouldn't have minded if the thing took out a few of the top 'Tubers too, honestly. It would have saved them the embarrassment over this happening.

Unfortunately, this is how I see it happening:

Everyone online will become aware of how Betterhelp is a scam, but none of the big YouTubers will lose any clout because there's too many massive ones involved.

YouTubers have fucked up worse, but are still going strong (TMartin and ProSyndicate making a CSGO skin gambling site with no age restrictions specifically to prey on kids), and this would require the collapse of several of the site's biggest creators.

Kids don't care if Hila and Ethan shilled a fake therapy website, as long as they keep making wacky videos about vaping they'll watch em.

 

[Zìshā]

Pewdiepie gave a mere mention about the specific list of YouTubers on the OP. He didn't go through most of the site as to show it off and all the findings. My best guess is that he heard people discussing the topic, did a quick search, and found the thread here that has a lot of the relevant information he needed.

I'd argue that he didn't want to mention specific allegations at all, especially the rogue rocket = philly d connection. Saying something along those lines would risk much larger consequences for someone on his level of popularity.

Part of me would love to see Pewdiepie go after rogue rocket, then inevitably get sued, then I could watch Phillip Defranco attempt to weasel out of that PR nightmare.

 

[Jack Awful]

I'd argue that he didn't want to mention specific allegations at all, especially the rogue rocket = philly d connection. Saying something along those lines would risk much larger consequences for someone on his level of popularity.

Part of me would love to see Pewdiepie go after rogue rocket, then inevitably get sued, then I could watch Phillip Defranco attempt to weasel out of that PR nightmare.

The YouTube admins and mainstream media already hate Pewdiepie, I doubt he'd want to add a crapload of popular YouTubers and their fans to that list.

 

[Tanner Glass]

I work in marketing/advertising. That 1mill as an ad budget would be a laughing stock for company that size. 1mill was just their Facebook marketing budget.

Just take a look at teladocs business report. 233mill revenue 2017. With a 350/360mill projection for 2018. I'm no general business expert, but it stands to reason that 60-100mill +/- will be their marketing budget as a whole, considering their aggressive expansion. So paying DeFranco and his cronies some nice shekels should be easy.

As for DeFrancos networth, like I said, only DeFranco and his inner circle know. I am in no way trying to defend him, but without hard numbers and percentages it would be all just speculation. All I can say that if he is 100M deep, then he either hides his business accumen very well and tries to obfuscate his real investments (to his detriment) or that literally Tyrone from Inglewood would have a better business sense considering the capital.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think Philly D intentionally tries to hide his net worth to keep up his "I'm just a youtube guy" persona. I mean, just watch one of his "Philip DeFranco Shows" in 2018.

Does this look like someone who is worth $100m+ starting a news network or someone who is still trying to appear to be a small time YouTuber. Or even if you think he's only worth $5m. Where he shoots, how he dresses, how he speaks, and how he acts are all conveying a persona. There's a couch and star wars action figures in his studio despite the fact that much smaller youtubers have much more professional spaces. He comes across as likeable to his fans and youtube friends; to a point where hundreds of them went out and shilled for BetterHelp with the smallest push.

Being unassuming is a thing that he does (I think) intentionally. It is disarming and lowers the guard of a lot of people in a large way. Letting himself be underestimated is almost certainly a tactic for him and right now it very much seems like he's using his "nice guy" persona to try and get heat off of BetterHelp and will easily succeed in the eyes of most people.

Considering how much money his persona has earned him, I don't see why he would stop now.

 

[CupcakeBitch]

This hasn't been added to the list, but here's another youtuber to add to the shill list.
Caddicarus | The video
The description with the advertising:

 

[Lysenko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rq_RHt1gP0
My inner sperg has been unleashed. Ralph Retort uploads a stream about the infamous shill therapist Kati Morton