Scientific Racism

yawning sneasel said:
It is impossible for anything we cannot concretely and objectively see or feel from some physical state to be void of bias. We are limited by our simple minds to keep that in check.

For me to do that without some sort of evidence would just be speculation. You cannot touch or feel an intelligence. An intelligence doesn't have some impact on the world. Again, using the example of another user, gravity does it can be felt. I honestly don't know how to make it any more simpler for you.
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But I could just extend your logic a bit further and say, à la Descartes, we can't know anything. Interesting to think about, but ultimately not a useful proposition because you aren't gaining anything by claiming that bias infects everything we do.
And I would say that if you can't think of any biases, chances are better than not that there aren't any. If you really wanted to you could claim that basically any advance in science philosophy etc is wrong because there are biases or logical errors present in them. That's clearly a self-defeating and somewhat obviously pointless thing to do. If you can't provide concrete examples of where something fails, then its the best model we have for now and we should continue to use it.
 
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VinRhe0 said:
I would say environment and upbringing plays a huge role in intelligence across racial demographics. If you're constantly surrounded by dumb shit and :autism: then of course the odds of you being exceptional as fuck skyrockets.
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Minnesota transracial adoption studies are evidence (not conclusive, but better than speculation) against that.
 
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What @yawning sneasel is trying to explain to you mentally superior anime club members, is that even though IQ examinations and theory are some of the most promising standards we have at the moment doesn't make them factual or even "scientific".

IQ is based in supposition and so you cannot reliably draw conclusions from these practices. I'm not any form of social scientist, neuroscientist, psychologist, or even biologist. I'm a Chemist :powerlevel: , but I recognize the ambiguity of IQ data quite easily.
 
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Thomas Paine said:
IQ is based in supposition and so you cannot reliably draw conclusions from these practices. I'm not any form of social scientist, neuroscientist, psychologist, or even biologist. I'm a Chemist :powerlevel: , but I recognize the ambiguity of IQ data quite easily.
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If you want to go that route, IQ data is supported by none other than the man himself:
:neckbeard: Jordan B. Peterson :neckbeard:
 
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@wylfım @lowkey so does IQ data objectively prove that, say, blacks are, on average, less intelligent than whites? Or is it something more subtle and nuanced than that?
 
Iwasamwillbe said:
@wylfım @lowkey so does IQ data objectively prove that, say, blacks are, on average, less intelligent than whites? Or is it something more subtle and nuanced than that?
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Yes and yes. There is more nuance and detail to the subject, but if you flatten groups to "blacks" and "whites", that is true.

If you look at say, american blacks vs american whites it's about a 15 IQ point gap in average, whereas if you compare sub saharan black to european white it's about 20-25 IQ point gap.

And if you compare african pygmy to nigerian african it's about a 20 IQ gap as well (from memory, give or take 5 IQ points).

If you compare native swiss to native irish it's almost 10 IQ point gap average, which is the biggest variance in "white" IQ measured between identifiable groups, if I'm not mistaken, supporting the earlier claim in this thread by someone else that africa has great genetic diversity.
 
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Iwasamwillbe said:
@wylfım @lowkey so does IQ data objectively prove that, say, blacks are, on average, less intelligent than whites? Or is it something more subtle and nuanced than that?
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lowkey said:
Yes and yes. There us more nuance and detail to the subject, but if you flatten groups to "blacks" and "whites", that is true.

If you look at say, american blacks vs american whites it's about a 15 IQ point gap in average, whereas if you compare sub saharan black to european white it's about 20-25 IQ point gap.

And if you compare african pygmy to nigerian african it's about a 20 IQ gap as well (from memory, give or take 5 IQ points).

If you compare native swiss to native irish it's almost 10 IQ point gap average, which is the biggest variance in "white" IQ measured between identifiable groups, if I'm not mistaken, supporting the earlier claim in this thread by someone else that africa has great genetic diversity.
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The data basically undeniable shows that an IQ gap exists (some of these studies have upwards of 10 million people in their samples). People claim that the data is flawed, or race doesnt exist, or IQ is meaningless, or some other attack on the methodology, to try to negate the fact because it's controversial. Like @lowkey said, there is nuance, but I think there's just so much raw data out there that it's unreasonable to deny that something is happening. You can argue all you want about causes and degrees of causes, but in my opinion it's somewhat :autistic: to think that there's no association at all.
 
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wylfım said:
You brought up profession unnecessarily, and then said the data is "ambiguous." You do realize ambiguous means that there isn't support for it, right? So which is it, do you think an IQ-race gap exists, or not?
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I did that to show that I have no authority on the matter, only opinions.
And also what:
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You are trying to put words in others' mouths. There are signs of a gap, yes, but we don't know how to adequately measure WHY or HOW there is a gap. We only know that there is a gap. What's your point?
Just because the demographics of race are included doesn't confirm that are correlated in any way.
 
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Why do some people care so much about this? Are they planning some sort of eugenics program to make super brains or something? In which case you'd cull everyone on earth bar the Israelis and the Japanese. Kind of put a wrench in White Supremacists plans wouldn't it?

Or you could go for super athletes, in which case you'd breed Icelandics with Africans. Oops, we messed up the "Aryan super race" guys again.

What I find funny is that the people arguing for AND against the IQ argument, is that they both seem to come from the same side that assumes "IQ denotes worth" worth to society, worth as a person.

I find that quite interesting.
 
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Medicated said:
Why do some people care so much about this?
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For your one point, no IQ does not denote worth. I think a decent argument can be made that people with a higher IQ and lack of accomplishment are worth even less. A good tool is worse if unused.

And I've laid out why it's worth discussing; it's a censored truth and therefor both taboo and interesting. It also explains disparate life outcomes that is otherwise only attributed to racism (as I see the thread has been collated with another thread that assumes racism in the title). Racism is a part of it, but smaller than typically assumed.

You can see that people have little ability to talk about the facts when they oppose it. They'll post from my profile, which is fine and funny and they inject what their personal opinions and anecdotes (there are people doing this in both directions, btw).

This is all to mask the basic truth that they can't argue the topic based on either facts or data.
 
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