Megathread TERFs / Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists / Gender Critical Feminists - ft. r/GenderCritical & related reddits, Mancheeze, Cathy Brennan, GCDad, RadFHarva, Jamie Shupe, etc; "Gender Critical Feminism is Homophobic" - Cathy Brennan, 2019.

[Sonya-chan]

Terf are ftm in denial

 

[Spunt]

It's important to understand, when trying to work out TERFdom, how their belief system originates.

The core concept to grasp when dealing with radical postmodernists in general, and redfems in particular, is that their position on the nature/nurture debate is 100%, dogmatically, almost psychotically on the nurture side. In other words, they believe that all human behaviour and psychology is dictated by experience and social conditioning, not biology. For a radfem, genetics, brain structure and hormones play *no part* in determining someone's personality. This includes their gender identity and sexual orientation.

This dogmatic belief in human nature and behaviour as socially dictated stems in large part from Marxism, particularly the Marxism of the 1960s (which spawned modern feminism, particularly the more bonkers corners of it) as it became clear that the Soviet Union and other communist experiments were not the workers' utopias that were promised. The cause of these problems seemed to stem from "human nature" - greed, laziness, freeloading, ambition, megalomania, hatred, all things that turned China, the USSR, Cambodia and other countries into hellholes. This unexpected development had to be explained. Marxism couldn't possibly be wrong, so the explanation that Marxist intellectuals came up with was that these personality traits were caused by capitalism. Communism failed because human thought patterns were capitalist, and capitalism was the cause of things like selfishness, racism and all the evils in the world. Stalin's "Socialism in One Country" policy was to blame because it allowed outside thought patterns to poison the revolution, and Trotsky's world revolution was the way forward, and Western Marxism took a turn for the Trotskyist as a result.

This conclusion therefore necessitated the belief that human nature was entirely a result of its environment. This fed well into feminism, where the Patriarchy was seen as a social power structure that created, rather than resulted from, differences between men and women. Men and women were the same psychological blank slates, and there was no such thing as a "male mind" or a "female mind", these were societal creations. (Of course this belief ignores everything science knows about the brain, but that was OK because science was created by nasty white men and could therefore be discounted).

When presented with trans people, this created a problem for this belief system. A transwoman, for example, has a "female mind" in a male body. But if gender identity is entirely socially constructed, and there is no such thing as a "female mind", then it is impossible for people raised as men to identify as women. How to resolve this dissonance? Well of course the dogma can't be wrong (despite science suggesting that trans people, as opposed to troons, often really do have the brain structures associated with the opposite gender to their genitalia), so the answer is straightforward - just deny that trans people exist at all - the "E" in TERF means "Erase" for a reason.

So in the face of Trans people, TERFs dismiss them as mentally ill (which is interesting seeing as many postmodernists believe mental illness to be a social construct as well, but nevermind), or as nasty predatory men invading female spaces for rapey purposes. The fact that Jonathan Yaniv clearly is in this latter category is, to them, confirmation that they were right all along. TERFs tend to ignore transmen, or explain them away as either women attempting to escape the patriarchy or as megalomaniacs who wanted to appropriate the power of the patriarchy for their own ends.

 

[BE 911]

Terf are ftm in denial

They all seem to have that sub-theme going on in general. A lot of the more vocal ones often have a history of "wanting to be boys" or more generally wanting to present as boys and dress like them when they were kids or teenagers. Hell, even that male TERF I posted earlier in this thread has mentioned feeling dysphoria and discomfort with their gender. As a result a lot of them present way more masculine later in their lives when they realize they can simply dress more masculine and are happy with it.

The weird part is that as a result, they feel society is forcing other people to transition if they happen to have the same kind of history and decided to transition instead. If you browse the GenderCritical subreddit, the image on the sidebar implies that they think people are coerced into transitioning or doing it out of malice, which would explain a lot of misguided hate.

They come up with ridiculous theories ("all transwomen are all rapist men!", "all transmen are confused by the patriarchy or gender traitors!") instead of accepting some people decide to present as the other gender out of their own will, for the exact same reason they dress more masculine (feeling alright in their shoes). I feel it stems from the inability to accept some people might live a different lifestyle than them because it would in one way or another empower the patriarchy, which essentially governs their world from start to finish.

From people that accuse the transgender community of being a brainwashing cult, their ideology very much sounds way more invasive in dictating what other people should or shouldn't do, which they accuse the patriarchy of doing in the first place.

 

[GranDuke]

And then you wonder why they think that we are pro-trans

 

[AnOminous]

The core concept to grasp when dealing with radical postmodernists in general, and redfems in particular, is that their position on the nature/nurture debate is 100%, dogmatically, almost psychotically on the nurture side.

That's as completely opposite of what TERFs are as it could be. TERFs are absolutely insistent on the biological nature of sex, and that is exactly why postmodern troon theorists hate them.

 

[LetterlandMafia]

Radfems have a strange relationship with nature v. nurture. They believe sex is 100% nature, but gender is 100% nurture. You're born a woman but everything women do that is considered womanly has been coded into them by our rigid patriarchal society. I don't think those ideas are necessarily incompatible, but it's certainly a strange switch to say that our bodies have been constructed in a way unique to our chromosomes, but the brain inside it is a total blank slate and everything in it has been planted there.

Radfems think that men are fine just the way they are.

 

[doxxingboozebabe]

For a radfem, genetics, brain structure and hormones play *no part* in determining someone's personality. This includes their gender identity and sexual orientation..

Well, we know this to be false. Kind of calls the rest into question.

Also, are terfs radfems, or a subset of radfems? just found theterfs.com which makes the point many radfems are cool with trannies?

 

[Stock Image Photographer]

Also, are terfs radfems, or a subset of radfems? just found theterfs.com which makes the point many radfems are cool with trannies?

TERFs are a subset of radfems. "Radical Feminism" as a term doesn't mean a whole lot unless you specifically compare it against something else, like the dominant culture in western society during the time when the second wave emerged or the current "libfem" wave of feminism.

 

[HG 400]

The terves offer up tribute in the only coin we desire.

The terves are honouring the great kiwi alliance.

 

[BE 911]

The terves offer up tribute in the only coin we desire.

View attachment 626348

The terves are honouring the great kiwi alliance.

"I had a couple month period of dysphoria during a manic episode[...]"
I swear to god they are all like this lol

 

[HG 400]

"I had a couple month period of dysphoria during a manic episode[...]"
I swear to god they are all like this lol

Scratch a terf - wound a tranny.

 

[doxxingboozebabe]

"I had a couple month period of dysphoria during a manic episode[...]"
I swear to god they are all like this lol

A lot seem to self-identify as austistic as well. I wonder if they are as obsessed as many trannies but just take the reverse view

 

[GranDuke]

Radfems have a strange relationship with nature v. nurture. They believe sex is 100% nature, but gender is 100% nurture. You're born a woman but everything women do that is considered womanly has been coded into them by our rigid patriarchal society. I don't think those ideas are necessarily incompatible, but it's certainly a strange switch to say that our bodies have been constructed in a way unique to our chromosomes, but the brain inside it is a total blank slate and everything in it has been planted there.



Radfems think that men are fine just the way they are.

Giving birth is usually mentioned as core thing of being women (often mentioned as a reason why women are oppressed by men and why trans people are not women), I never bothered to look more into it, but what do they think about being a mother? There is certain amount of activities that you kinda have to do when you are mother that can't really be "coded".

Either way any movement that claims something being 100% is bound to get retarded in some situations, but overall I think that if they altered their message to "most of the stuff is nurture" then nobody would really have problems.

 

[escapegoat]

I won't sperg excessively, but there is no single radfem theory of motherhood. Some of them, though, are so hostile to the idea, I wouldn't want them as my mom, that is for damn sure.

 

[Rational Volcel]

Terf is kind of a stupid term to use because in their view they aren't "trans-exclusionary", they just don't buy into the ideology of sexual identity. As in, they simply do not accept the premise that self-identification and personal experience is valid as a determinant of gender, that there are "male brains" or "female souls" or whatever. Like, this forum we're posting on isn't necessarily filled with "otherkin-exclusionary" posters because it doesn't let you fill in otherkin in the gender box.

Like if you drew up a venn diagram of this, the circle of "mentally unstable cat ladies who hate men and are probably kissless femcels" and the circle of "people who troons call terfs" would have pretty huge areas of non-overlap. The thing that makes the lolcows in this thread insane isn't that they're terfs, but that they're the female version of insane r/socialism posters.

 

[escapegoat]

Yeah, bat shit crazy radfems is a way more lucrative vein for lulz than just "terfs."

 

[BE 911]

Terf is kind of a stupid term to use because in their view they aren't "trans-exclusionary", they just don't buy into the ideology of sexual identity. As in, they simply do not accept the premise that self-identification and personal experience is valid as a determinant of gender, that there are "male brains" or "female souls" or whatever.

"They aren't trans-exclusionary they just reject the concept of transgender people."

 

[GranDuke]

To me "exclusionary" sounds like you accept that they exist, but you don't want them around. If you reject the concept entirely then you don't accept that they really exist.

 

[Rational Volcel]

"They aren't trans-exclusionary they just reject the concept of transgender people."

"Trans people", widely defined, have existed since the roman times at least, you can likely go back to Babylon and find similar records. You know how these people viewed troons during the classical and pre-classical periods? They saw them as men, who for various reasons acted like women, and in some cases could be considered to be women in the legal sense (the opposite case existed but was far rarer then, just as it is now). That's basically the position of most second wave feminists.

Calling them terfs is pretty stupid unless you're a troon (in which case it is understandable), because they don't define themselves as exclusionary, as you cannot really be exclusionary against something you do not think actually exists. I myself do not think "otherkin people" exist. Am I exclusionary to otherkins? You see, I'm fully willing to admit that there are people posting on otherkin forums and sharing their otherkin stories, and I think those people should be nurtured and treated fairly and all that crap, but I don't actually buy that they are otherkin.

In my narrow, racist brain, they're just people who have social or mental problems or are just generally searching for belonging or whatever. That's the view most radical and second wave feminists take w/r/t troons, and frankly it's easily the opinion of a crushing majority of people living today. Most people are just too polite to say anything, and so they humor the existence of transgender people while silently believing they are, at the end of the day, just men with mental and social problems acting like women and vice versa.

 

[BE 911]

"Trans people", widely defined, have existed since the roman times at least, you can likely go back to Babylon and find similar records. You know how these people viewed troons during the classical and pre-classical periods? They saw them as men, who for various reasons acted like women, and in some cases could be considered to be women in the legal sense (the opposite case existed but was far rarer then, just as it is now). That's basically the position of most second wave feminists.

Calling them terfs is pretty stupid unless you're a troon (in which case it is understandable), because they don't define themselves as exclusionary, as you cannot really be exclusionary against something you do not think actually exists. I myself do not think "otherkin people" exist. Am I exclusionary to otherkins? You see, I'm fully willing to admit that there are people posting on otherkin forums and sharing their otherkin stories, and I think those people should be nurtured and treated fairly and all that crap, but I don't actually buy that they are otherkin.

In my narrow, racist brain, they're just people who have social or mental problems or are just generally searching for belonging or whatever. That's the view most radical and second wave feminists take w/r/t troons, and frankly it's easily the opinion of a crushing majority of people living today. Most people are just too polite to say anything, and so they humor the existence of transgender people while silently believing they are, at the end of the day, just men with mental and social problems acting like women and vice versa.

And this, ladies and gents, is why this thread has an infected tag.