Horrorcow Zoe Quinn / Chelsea Van Valkenburg / Locke Valentine / @UnburntWitch / @Primeape / CrashOverride / Hat Box / Old Uncle Anime - Con Artist, Abuser, Sexual Harasser, Drove Alec Holowka to Suicide.

[Splendid]

what money is there in the furry "industry?"

Furry artists, fursuit makers, and the like tend to do well, so if she's got any of those skill sets, she'll actually be set for life. The furry community is infamous for is tolerance for drama, idiocy, stupid behavior, and dangerous/illegal sexual deviance.

 

[Frosted Snowflakes]

In the meantime I found this uploaded on Know Your Meme.

 

[damian]

In the meantime I found this uploaded on Know Your Meme.

The funniest thing in that image is the wad of cash, no pros gets nearly that much for their work.

 

[damian]

They could be MONOPOLY MONEY with a $100 bill on the outside

FIFY

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

The funniest thing in that image is the wad of cash, no pros gets nearly that much for their work.

Artists can. Neil Adams can come away with a few thousand after a convention. Granted, the cost of the table and paying his assistant for the weekend does cut into that and taxes.

 

[damian]

after a convention

Well there's the problem right there, I'm referring to comic work from the both the big and small publishers. Outside of big names, most pros barely make a living from their comic work.

How many people do you expect to line up to get their books signed by the carnival freak show that the comics industry is currently populated by, or more specifically for Zoe herself? Her artist? Unless they can unsee his asshole, I don't see anyone going near him.

 

[littlestclown]

There are reasons games journalism, anime and game translations, and comics got utterly wrecked by social justice, but video games and board games as a whole survived is that at the end of the day creative people make things. The furry fandom has survived smear campaigns, rapists, people smearing feces on hotel walls, and even a chlorine gas attack. But no matter how much drama comes from or is directed at the big names in the fandom, people like me furries will continue to draw things and films like Zootopia will continue to be made.

Enter the newborn baby. You saw sights, you heard noises, you smelled, you felt, you thought. Fast forward. It’s the same story. You’re the same. You may have already been reincarnated. Are you someone else now? Have you committed suicide? Are you looking for opportunity were there’s none to be found? You’re led by many, but who is the right one? Why do they wish to lead? They need rats for experimentation. You’ll wind up bloated and dismayed.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

Well there's the problem right there, I'm referring to comic work from the both the big and small publishers. Outside of big names, most pros barely make a living from their comic work.

How many people do you expect to line up to get their books signed by the carnival freak show that the comics industry is currently populated by, or more specifically for Zoe herself? Her artist? Unless they can unsee his asshole, I don't see anyone going near him.

Zoe would be expected to be getting around $20,000 a year if she was your typical entry-level writer, but we all know she would be asking for more, my guess around $32,000. The average is $48,000 for your veteran's who have been doing it for a decade or more.

 

[damian]

Zoe would be expected to be getting around $20,000 a year if she was your typical entry-level writer, but we all know she would be asking for more, my guess around $32,000. The average is $48,000 for your veteran's who have been doing it for a decade or more.

If these are the statistics you're sourcing, these are salaries for long term contracts. The majority of writing/art work is now done through freelancers, whose rates look more like this.

Another thing that you can account for are would-be royalties from trades, if they sell well royalties will be added to your overall pay, BUT they aren't going to make much out of them unless they sell well into the 4-digit units mark.

Most freelancers make just enough to live by, any extra money would be done through convention work and considering my previous post about the team behind Zoe's book, I'd say at best she would be on the around the range of $15-16K. Unless her book is the next Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, where each issue is a must have collector's item, I doubt she's going to make a cent more than my estimate, royalties and conventions included.

 

[KillThemCrackasBabies]

The majority of writing/art work is now done through freelancers, whose rates look more like this.

Haha holy shit that sucks...

 

[Marche]

Finish your game Zoe.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

If these are the statistics you're sourcing, these are salaries for long term contracts. The majority of writing/art work is now done through freelancers, whose rates look more like this.

Another thing that you can account for are would-be royalties from trades, if they sell well royalties will be added to your overall pay, BUT they aren't going to make much out of them unless they sell well into the 4-digit units mark.

Most freelancers make just enough to live by, any extra money would be done through convention work and considering my previous post about the team behind Zoe's book, I'd say at best she would be on the around the range of $15-16K. Unless her book is the next Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, where each issue is a must have collector's item, I doubt she's going to make a cent more than my estimate, royalties and conventions included.

If you're a freelancer sure, but Zoe isn't a freelancer, shes contracted for at least six issues, more likely twelve issues as DC would see more value in a maxi series with her name tied to it. By the way, whoever wrote those numbers on the page you linked is getting lowballed. IDW alone pays cover artists more than that. And no, I got my information from here http://www.scriptsandscribes.com/comic-writer-faq/, handy site to see how a comic book script looks too.

While I doubt we'll ever see Zoe's script for Goddess Mode, here's a more to understand how they're usually written. http://www.comicsexperience.com/scripts/ the old archive for them is done.

So the only Cyberpunk Zoe knows of is Blade Runner.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zoe-quinn-talks-fears-behind-goddess-mode-1168712
Also couldn't be arsed to support her LCN.
"I come from a games background where, on a lot of games, I did everything"
Bitch, you've worked on one game and that's being charitable as it's the only thing you've finished.
Oh, and Graeme McMillan was a Judge for the Eisner Awards last year, expect him to try and nominate Zoe after this fluff piece. He looks the type.

 

[Jaimas]

If you're a freelancer sure, but Zoe isn't a freelancer, shes contracted for at least six issues, more likely twelve issues as DC would see more value in a maxi series with her name tied to it. By the way, whoever wrote those numbers on the page you linked is getting lowballed. IDW alone pays cover artists more than that. And no, I got my information from here http://www.scriptsandscribes.com/comic-writer-faq/, handy site to see how a comic book script looks too.

While I doubt we'll ever see Zoe's script for Goddess Mode, here's a more to understand how they're usually written. http://www.comicsexperience.com/scripts/ the old archive for them is done.

So the only Cyberpunk Zoe knows of is Blade Runner.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zoe-quinn-talks-fears-behind-goddess-mode-1168712
Also couldn't be arsed to support her LCN.
"I come from a games background where, on a lot of games, I did everything"
Bitch, you've worked on one game and that's being charitable as it's the only thing you've finished.
Oh, and Graeme McMillan was a Judge for the Eisner Awards last year, expect him to try and nominate Zoe after this fluff piece. He looks the type.

I'm gonna tear into this some more. Because holy shit, this article.

I mean, the world building, a little bit less? Aside from just being a giant cyberpunk nerd — I’ve got lowkey augments myself; I’ve got a magnet in my finger and a chip in my head, and I try to write about that — it’s something I daydream about pretty frequently. And, as someone who’s actually worked in Silicon Valley and tried to make the internet better and tried to humanize these systems that govern what we see or hear about or think is real, it’s just the most natural thing.

...Having an RFID chip and a fucking subdermal magnet makes Quinn as much of a cyborg as Jake Alley is a woman. Fucking and sucking her way into having connections at Google doesn't really count as "working in Silicon Valley," for that matter. But it's what she says afterwards that pisses me off. She quite literally spent the entirety of fucking August 2014 onwards trying to convince the entire fucking internet that all evidence that she was a zero-talent whore who solely had a career due to a rotating ring of beta orbiters was in error, while actively attempting to censure anyone who dared point out the truth. She then chased this by ignoring all evidence that she was a serial-harassing asshole who propped up multiple sex offenders and child molesters while actively trying to slander and threaten those critical of her, culminating in her going before the UN and unironically arguing that we needed to censor the entire internet so people couldn't get away with pointing out when she was lying, using the words of Lyndon fucking Larouche as justification, with the report she was armed with being such a botch that the UN publicly apologized for and redacted it.

What I'm getting at is that Quinn is almost unquestionably the villain of a Cyberpunk dystopia given this.

I didn’t want to do the same cyberpunk that we had when cyberpunk was created. As much as I love Blade Runner — and I love that stuff — I don’t want to talk about the future the 1980s was worried about. I want to talk about the future I’m worried about, the future I think a lot of us are worried about. And there are legitimate concerns — I don’t want people to be able to see a giant screen with all my information on it, that thought horrifies me. So I’m trying to think, as someone who built tech: Where is the future actually going? Versus: Where the future has already been?

Once again, Quinn exposes herself as the poseur she is. Her sole reference for Cyberpunk that she lists is, admittedly, one of the greats of the genre, but nothing she's going to talk about in the paragraphs to follow that explains what those worries she has allegedly are. It's the exact same shit she does in fucking every industry she chooses to infest, make sweeping generalizations and get into no details about anything.

Thing is, you know you got something special when Quinn makes a claim like this - that she's "built tech" that makes Wu's claims of being an engineer seem fucking credible by contrast, because at least Wu's put out a professional fucking product. It was a failure, and it's a terrible fucking product, but she put it out, and she had the wherewithal to see shit through. Quinn literally has accomplished nothing beyond a Twine game. A Twine game, lest you need reminding, that she only partly worked on.

.....You know how like, around 14 years ago, there was that one male prostitute that just inexplicably somehow got a White House press pass despite zero qualifications or experience, and eventually got noticed because he kept asking questions so softball that even the establishment Republicans thought he was a plant? The truth later seemed to be simple incompetence - no one actually bothering to vet anything - though the very nature of what he actually was meant theories about him went rife, and lord knows there was ample evidence to support those theories.

Every time I see Quinn pulling this shit, I'm reminded of that.

Dude, I’m still scared. I’m terrified. It’s kind of a relief that the courier lost my advance copies because it means I haven’t held it as a physical object yet. It’s like, “Oh, maybe it’s fine. I don’t have to think about this. I can just focus on writing the thing and I don’t have to think about it as real and where it has consequences.” I’m not just going out here and talking about tech and magic. There’s a lot of personal stuff that I’m venting, even just working on this and writing Cassandra — the person she wants to protect most in her life is her dad, and last week, my dad went into the ICU. Writing during that, there’s a lot of bleeding onto the page. There’s a lot that I have to say, that I can’t say in other words, so I’m putting it into the work and saying things I’m afraid of saying out loud through other, fictional, people. So hopefully I do a good job of that, and it lands, and it’s not just me being a weird trash monkey. I mean, it’s my first comic. I’m freaked out.

You know, they say to write what you know, but something jumped out at me when I was looking at this. See, the first time I saw excerpts from Goddess Mode, the first goddamn thing I noticed is that the protagonist's cyberscape form looks like a stylized version of Quinn herself.



Fucking tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Water-T]

Oh, and Graeme McMillan was a Judge for the Eisner Awards last year, expect him to try and nominate Zoe after this fluff piece. He looks the type.

Chelsea managed to get her "book" nominated for a Hugo, so it's all but guaranteed that the soyboys in the comics industry are going try their damndest to get her book pushed for an Eisner. Jack Kirby is spinning in his grave.

 

[Stock Photo James]

I'm starting to get a better understanding of that whole "Time is an endless circle" theory because of this autism. It's kind of why I hope she does latch on to the furry community like the parasite she is -- if there's one "fandom" that deserves to get utterly ruined its furries, and she's proven cancerous enough to have a chance of damaging even them.

Why stop there? Why not have her involved in politics of shit political parties and entire exploitative industries? She's like left wing Sargon, ruins anything she gets involved in.

I'm gonna tear into this some more. Because holy shit, this article.



...Having an RFID chip and a fucking subdermal magnet makes Quinn as much of a cyborg as Jake Alley is a woman. Fucking and sucking her way into having connections at Google doesn't really count as "working in Silicon Valley," for that matter. But it's what she says afterwards that pisses me off. She quite literally spent the entirety of fucking August 2014 onwards trying to convince the entire fucking internet that all evidence that she was a zero-talent whore who solely had a career due to a rotating ring of beta orbiters was in error, while actively attempting to censure anyone who dared point out the truth. She then chased this by ignoring all evidence that she was a serial-harassing asshole who propped up multiple sex offenders and child molesters while actively trying to slander and threaten those critical of her, culminating in her going before the UN and unironically arguing that we needed to censor the entire internet so people couldn't get away with pointing out when she was lying, using the words of Lyndon fucking Larouche as justification, with the report she was armed with being such a botch that the UN publicly apologized for and redacted it.

What I'm getting at is that Quinn is almost unquestionably the villain of a Cyberpunk dystopia given this.



Once again, Quinn exposes herself as the poseur she is. Her sole reference for Cyberpunk that she lists is, admittedly, one of the greats of the genre, but nothing she's going to talk about in the paragraphs to follow that explains what those worries she has allegedly are. It's the exact same shit she does in fucking every industry she chooses to infest, make sweeping generalizations and get into no details about anything.

Thing is, you know you got something special when Quinn makes a claim like this - that she's "built tech" that makes Wu's claims of being an engineer seem fucking credible by contrast, because at least Wu's put out a professional fucking product. It was a failure, and it's a terrible fucking product, but she put it out, and she had the wherewithal to see shit through. Quinn literally has accomplished nothing beyond a Twine game. A Twine game, lest you need reminding, that she only partly worked on.

.....You know how like, around 14 years ago, there was that one male prostitute that just inexplicably somehow got a White House press pass despite zero qualifications or experience, and eventually got noticed because he kept asking questions so softball that even the establishment Republicans thought he was a plant? The truth later seemed to be simple incompetence - no one actually bothering to vet anything - though the very nature of what he actually was meant theories about him went rife, and lord knows there was ample evidence to support those theories.

Every time I see Quinn pulling this shit, I'm reminded of that.



You know, they say to write what you know, but something jumped out at me when I was looking at this. See, the first time I saw excerpts from Goddess Mode, the first goddamn thing I noticed is that the protagonist's cyberscape form looks like a stylized version of Quinn herself.

View attachment 631710

Fucking tell me I'm wrong.

Yeah, she's writing a self-insert. Depression Quest was rather a self-insert too. She really doesn't know how to see other perspectives, it appears.

 

[AnOminous]

Yeah, she's writing a self-insert. Depression Quest was rather a self-insert too. She really doesn't know how to see other perspectives, it appears.

Part of why Mary Sue characters are garbage is they're almost always the self-insert of a completely unsympathetic, narcissistic asshole.

 

[Jaimas]

Part of why Mary Sue characters are garbage is they're almost always the self-insert of a completely unsympathetic, narcissistic asshole.

That's actually one of the reasons Wu's magnum opus is such an outlier, and leads to one of the most surreal things I've ever said on this website, but:

Wu's game has decent characterization. And while it's got a number of brain-dead issues with its story, the game runs like shit, and its mechanics are held together with spaghetti code, one thing it doesn't do is have any Mary Sues. Holiday pulls off some retarded shit like the spaceship jump in the intro, but she chases that up by having a major fuck-up less than a minute and a half later that has real consequences and moves the plot along. No one in the story does not get their lumps at some point - not even the villain - and no one comes across as more competent than their station or story would allow.

It also has no real self-inserts. Amelia is sort of an expy for Wu's idealized self, but in a bizarre twist, her character isn't portrayed as likable - she's portrayed as an asshole, and nobody in-universe trusts her. Chase is obviously a Frank Wu insert but he doesn't even appear in the fucking game, being mentioned once in passing by Holiday in a derogatory wisecrack.

In short, Wu is more competent at character writing than pretty much most of Marvel comics at this point, and I find that fucking depressing.

 

[QB 290]

That's actually one of the reasons Wu's magnum opus is such an outlier, and leads to one of the most surreal things I've ever said on this website, but:

Wu's game has decent characterization. And while it's got a number of brain-dead issues with its story, the game runs like shit, and its mechanics are held together with spaghetti code, one thing it doesn't do is have any Mary Sues. Holiday pulls off some exceptional shit like the spaceship jump in the intro, but she chases that up by having a major fuck-up less than a minute and a half later that has real consequences and moves the plot along. No one in the story does not get their lumps at some point - not even the villain - and no one comes across as more competent than their station or story would allow.

It also has no real self-inserts. Amelia is sort of an expy for Wu's idealized self, but in a bizarre twist, her character isn't portrayed as likable - she's portrayed as an asshole, and nobody in-universe trusts her. Chase is obviously a Frank Wu insert but he doesn't even appear in the fucking game, being mentioned once in passing by Holiday in a derogatory wisecrack.

In short, Wu is more competent at character writing than pretty much most of Marvel comics at this point, and I find that fucking depressing.

You know a timeline sucks when after years of us saying "this game is shit and nothing about it is good", the rest of culture shits the bed so bad that the bar is lowered enough for us to say "The game still sucks but maybe not as bad as everything else now"

 

[Kosher Dill]

In short, Wu is more competent at character writing

You mean Amanda Winn-Lee is more competent at character writing.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

You know, they say to write what you know, but something jumped out at me when I was looking at this. See, the first time I saw excerpts from Goddess Mode, the first goddamn thing I noticed is that the protagonist's cyberscape form looks like a stylized version of Quinn herself.

View attachment 631710

Fucking tell me I'm wrong.

Oh that goes without saying, an idealized Quinn is even on the cover.

The only self-insert character I can think of that worked is Mandrake, but it's hard o Mary-Sue a crime solving illusionist, unlike cyber-fighting neon goth thots. The reasoning behind both Quinn's and Falk's characters might be similar though, it's an "ORIGINAL CHARACTER; DO NOT STEAL" defense. So it's not like anyone would, or could, take over writing the comic if Quinn flakes out.