Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

So, out of curiosity, any suggestions on how to make Snoke less of a waste of screentime and turn him into a memorable villain?
Since he's apparently scarred from fighting a race of Vong wannabes, they could have gone with Snoke's secret plan not being so much about overtaking the galaxy as the new emperor, but rather him trying to whip his end of the galaxy into shape in time for the wannabe-vong to show up.
Essentially, he'd be frustrated with the meanderings of the Republic that decreased their army and refuses to take that outside threat seriously, so he decides to hijack the First Order (who without him were just former Empire officials larping at being the real deal), intending to use them to overthrow the Republic as a means to set the stage to build up a massive army and then counter the wannab-Vong.

The most interesting villains are those that have a goal that the viewer actually finds himself relating to - in this case trying to protect the galaxy, it would allow for some interesting morals to be brought up. Creating a giant oppressive dictatorship to fight back against an urgent live-or-die threat and whether this can be justified might be worth a shot as a theme for a movie and it would have allowed them to actually subvert expecations by having a more ambiguous conflict between the protagnists and the antagonists, since it's not so clearly "pure good vs pure evil" and more about the question on whether the ends justify the means.
This would basically make the First Order into a discount composite of the Empire of the Hand and Thrawn's Imperial Remnant, which would still be infinitely more more interesting than the Disney discount Empire, but somehow stronger in every way. Since it looks like Zahn's nucanon Thrawn books have been trying to work some of those old concepts and characters in he might actually be trying to salvage some of nucanon that way. I don't have any of them other than the first one which I haven't gotten around to reading yet though so maybe GeneralFriendliness could give more detail about that.
 
They are really going all out to try and portray Leia as some sort of Mary Sue feminist icon when in the original she was far from that. In said media she was a realistic human character who children of all ages and either sex could adore and admire. With Disney simply doing this shit for virtue signaling points by taking a well-beloved female character and turning her into a one-dimensional stereotype of strong women. Which reminds me of the first commercial under Disney to try and push this angle for Leia. I think it was a Walmart commercial. I'll have to check.

Edit:
Found it.
Disney would love you to believe that making Leia general of a paramilitary group that is absolutely dogshit at doing everything makes her more of a feminist hero than anything she ever did in the OT.
 
So, out of curiosity, any suggestions on how to make Snoke less of a waste of screentime and turn him into a memorable villain?
Since he's apparently scarred from fighting a race of Vong wannabes, they could have gone with Snoke's secret plan not being so much about overtaking the galaxy as the new emperor, but rather him trying to whip his end of the galaxy into shape in time for the wannabe-vong to show up.
Essentially, he'd be frustrated with the meanderings of the Republic that decreased their army and refuses to take that outside threat seriously, so he decides to hijack the First Order (who without him were just former Empire officials larping at being the real deal), intending to use them to overthrow the Republic as a means to set the stage to build up a massive army and then counter the wannab-Vong.

The most interesting villains are those that have a goal that the viewer actually finds himself relating to - in this case trying to protect the galaxy, it would allow for some interesting morals to be brought up. Creating a giant oppressive dictatorship to fight back against an urgent live-or-die threat and whether this can be justified might be worth a shot as a theme for a movie and it would have allowed them to actually subvert expecations by having a more ambiguous conflict between the protagnists and the antagonists, since it's not so clearly "pure good vs pure evil" and more about the question on whether the ends justify the means.


Disney seems like they want to avoid the old trope of "Princess falls in love with Prince on first sight", they have characters spend an entire movie together before one (or both) profess their love to the other person. Unfortunately, depicting women being compassionate, supportive or interested in males is undesirable, since it undermines the STRONK WAMYN angle, also showing a male being interested or attracted to a woman makes him a shitlord. So we end up with 2 characters that just coexist on screen, share no chemistry at all and then we're supposed to believe that there is some sort of hidden passion somewhere in this mix the moment they kiss randomly out of nowhere... aka: The Finn/Rose thing.
It boggles the mind.



Funny you'd bring that up, anime has been getting shit from feminists all over the place for objetifying or fetishizing women, but the strange thing is: many of the strongest and most badass female characters in media are form anime.
Major Kusanagi from GitS, Integra from Hellsing or pretty much every female Character in Black Lagoon just to name a few.


I just threw up a little in my mouth. JFC.
Heh, Black Lagoon. Balalaika was simultaneously terrifying and arousing at the same time.
 
This would basically make the First Order into a discount composite of the Empire of the Hand and Thrawn's Imperial Remnant, which would still be infinitely more more interesting than the Disney discount Empire, but somehow stronger in every way. Since it looks like Zahn's nucanon Thrawn books have been trying to work some of those old concepts and characters in he might actually be trying to salvage some of nucanon that way. I don't have any of them other than the first one which I haven't gotten around to reading yet though so maybe GeneralFriendliness could give more detail about that.
Good Guy Timothy Zahn is better than Disney's canon deserves tbh. I'm looking forward to his next Honorverse collab with David Weber.
 
So, out of curiosity, any suggestions on how to make Snoke less of a waste of screentime and turn him into a memorable villain?
Not making him Palpatine 2.0 with generic motivations would be a start, but if I had to think of something, well... as overused as the idea is, I would've gone with him being a "child" of Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis was a powerful muun Sith Lord whose force powers allowed him to create life, with his ultimate goal being immortality by creating perfect hosts to serve as vessels or altering the very framework of life and achieve immortality for himself and the Sith. Old lore has him as trying to create life but his actions did not go unnoticed, with Anakin's birth being a natural counter-actor to his meddling with the natural order. So a good idea to go about this would be that before he was killed by Palpatine, Plagueis successfully created a host for his spirit in what would be a child of the nu-Vong and linked his own life force to it, thus preserving himself. This child could be "Snoke" (a name given to him by his new alien parentage) with his ultimate end goal not just being the annihilation of the revived jedi but using his newfound power to wipe out all life in the galaxy and create a whole new form of "perfect" immortal life, turning the galaxy into his very own soulless Olympus fueled only by infinite knowledge without wisdom or compassion. With his new "divine" realm and power, he will desire to spread his influence throughout the cosmos and make all life recognize him as the true avatar of the The Force itself, and as all living things embrace this view, it may actually become true... And it is this twisted plot that our heroes must stop before Plagueis can bring them to fruition.

That's what I'd go with anyway... Its probably not perfect, but its the only thing that comes to mind.

On a similar note, I have other personal suggestions and ideas of things I would've done. They're not perfect either but I like to think its probably worth something.
I really don't like the name "First Order". The First Order as a name just feels dispassionate and doesn't really carry the legacy of its predecessor since I personally feel like that its name should have been something like the Reborn Order, Shadow Empire or anything really that would show that it's carrying the legacy of the Empire it splintered from.

Same goes for the Resistance. The name and entire existence of the Resistance feels truly uninspired and devoid of any originality for me (even more so than the First Order whose origins at least feel partially inspired), just being another one of JJ's copy/pastes from ANH that just end up being Rebels 2.0 in a place and time where it no longer works. I mean they could have had a better set up for the good guy faction, like start off with the First Order/Imperial Remnant being a relatively neutral faction that never took any action outside of the unknown regions (much like its pre-Disney predecessors) but to be safe the New Republic sets up a new military faction within the border of the Unknown Regions to monitor them and act as the first line of defense against the remnant should they ever attack and it could have a far more fitting name and role, instead of the Resistance which is just a pseudo-independent renegade branch of wannabe rebels with no real aim and who are hated by their own Republic simply because of Leia's parentage despite her being one of the founders of this new government. It would have also been best not to have Leia be the freaking general for this thing simply because she's become a political outcast but rather keep her as its primary benefactor within the Senate and have someone close to her be in charge, like a second or third child, maybe even a daughter so you could have a chance to show competent female characters.

I mean seriously, we went through several movies and media spinoffs showing our heroes mature and become galactic heroes so we expect them to become something greater; Luke becoming the Jedi Master of his own Academy and with his own family to be proud of, Leia becoming an influential political figure that would hopefully establish an asylum world (New Alderaan) for her people, and Han and Chewbacca becoming the heads of their own Smuggler's Guild while not leaving Leia simply because JJ wanted to keep their character growths stunted for a reset, but instead that's what we get... a reset button gets pushed and it's all back to square one, right down to our heroes becoming outcasts, stuff of myths or nobodies separated and no longer even caring about each other just so that we could have a repeat of A New Hope.

If they had gone down the more optimistic route, you could even have Rey or whoever be a member of said Smuggler's Guild or have the Disney heroes run into the guild which results in them teaming up with Han Solo and riding his Falcon due to being pursued due to a far better reason than "a map to Luke Skywalker" (which allows for cheap and easy Nostalgiabait right then and there without having to force in too many coincidences at once or making Han lose his prized possession), or hell since Ford didn't want to be in the movie, have his character die off in a past conflict with the Vong or Snoke's nu-Vong instead of Chewie and have a possible third child fill his shoes and serve as the head of the Smuggler's Guild and a potential main character for this new franchise (which is sorely lacking in heroes with any connection to the Skywalkers outside of the walking wastebin villain that is Emo Ren) so as to not needlessly give the Falcon away and reduce it to a fucking plot device. But they didn't want to go down that route because new Lucasfilm just wants to eliminate all traces of the past and kill off the bloodline of the heroes and replace them with their fucking OCs who have to be better than the original heroes at everything. They didn't have to, but they did. They could've still honored the past yet still be free to tell an original story, and they wouldn't even need to retcon anything from the original films, the prequels or even the old pre-Disney lore because you're still making an adventurous tale that honors the world and its heroes with a real future that has plenty of room for completely original and creative stories, and the retcons I suggested would even make the most lore-strict nerds of olde happy (since quite frankly even the most diehard EU fans thought everything went to shit after 25ABY which was when the Vong arrived and brought about Chewie's death) so rebooting everything after 25ABY would've been celebrated, but instead they retconned everything (including the OT and its characters) on a whim just to satisfy the egos of Kennedy, JJ, Rian and Disney execs which only helped to divide the fanbase from the get-go.

But this somewhat optimistic future gives way to some issues, like "if this future is so bright then there's not much room for conflict". Not necessarily true. The first film could've started off as seemingly optimistic, but all it would take to start a new conflict is a showcase of a mysterious weapon (that's not a Death Star copy/paste) suddenly unleashing its might and laying waste to half of Coruscant (rather than Not-Coruscant) putting the state of the galaxy in chaos and making all aware that the Empire's legacy continues, and both prequel lovers and prequel haters would be pleased by this impacting scene through either emotional attachment or a fondness for seeing the "boring old senators" get blown to pieces. With the main seat of government crushed, it falls to the scattered Republic remnants to keep order in the rising chaos of the galaxy, and the military branch that would serve as the first line of defense against the now hostile First Order/Imperial Remnant act as the main hero faction we must cheer for.

star-wars-tldr.gif

I'm half-asleep as I write this so please forgive this mess of text.

I admit, my ideas are probably far from perfect, but I feel like I probably put more thought and effort into them than Lucasfilm's new story team did with their new universe.
 

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Not making him Palpatine 2.0 with generic motivations would be a start, but if I had to think of something, well... as overused as the idea is, I would've gone with him be a "child" of Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis was a Muun whose force powers allowed him to create life, with his ultimate goal being immortality by creating perfect hosts to serve as vessels or altering the very framework of life and achieve immortality for himself and the Sith. Old lore has him as trying to create life but his actions did not go unnoticed, with Anakin's birth being a natural counter-actor to his meddling with the natural order. So a good idea to go about this would be that before he was killed by Palpatine, Plagueis successfully created a host for his spirit in what would be a child of the nu-Vong and linked his own life force to it, thus preserving himself. This child could be "Snoke" (a name given to him by his new alien parentage) with his ultimate end goal not just being the annihilation of the revived jedi but using his newfound power to wipe out all life in the galaxy and create a whole new form of "perfect" immortal life, turning the galaxy into his very own soulless Olympus fueled only by infinite knowledge without wisdom or compassion. With his new "divine" realm and power, he will desire to spread his influence throughout the cosmos and make all life recognize him as the true avatar of the The Force itself, and as all living things embrace this view, it may actually become true... And it is this twisted plot that our heroes must stop before Plagueis can bring them to fruition.

That's what I'd go with anyway... Its probably not perfect, but its the only thing that comes to mind.

On a similar note, I have other personal suggestions and ideas of things I would've done. They're not perfect either but I like to think its probably worth something.
I really don't like the name "First Order". The First Order as a name just feels dispassionate and doesn't really carry the legacy of its predecessor since I personally feel like that its name should have been something like the Reborn Order, Shadow Empire or anything really that would show that it's carrying the legacy of the Empire it splintered from.

Same goes for the Resistance. The name and entire existence of the Resistance feels truly uninspired and devoid of any originality for me (even more so than the First Order whose origins at least feel partially inspired), just being another one of JJ's copy/pastes from ANH that just end up being Rebels 2.0 in a place and time where it no longer works. I mean they could have had a better set up for the good guy faction, like start off with the First Order/Imperial Remnant being a relatively neutral faction that never took any action outside of the unknown regions (much like its pre-Disney predecessors) but to be safe the New Republic sets up a new military faction within the border of the Unknown Regions to monitor them and act as the first line of defense against the remnant should they ever attack and it could have a far more fitting name and role, instead of the Resistance which is just a pseudo-independent renegade branch of wannabe rebels with no real aim and who's hated by its own Republic simply because of Leia's parentage despite her being one of the founders of this new government. It would have also been best not to have Leia be the freaking general for this thing simply because she's become a political outcast but rather keep her as its primary benefactor within the Senate and have someone close to her be in charge, like a second or third child, maybe even a daughter so you could have a chance to show competent female character.

I mean seriously we went through several movies and media spinoffs showing our heroes mature and become galactic heroes so we expect them to become something greater; Luke becoming the Jedi Master of his own Academy and with his own family to be proud of, Leia becoming an influential political figure that would hopefully establish an asylum world (New Alderaan) for her people, and Han and Chewbacca becoming the heads of their own Smuggler's Guild while not leaving Leia simply because JJ wanted to keep their character growths stunted for a reset, but instead that's what we get... a reset button gets pushed and it's all back to square one, right down to our heroes becoming outcasts, stuff of myths or nobodies separated and no longer even caring about each other just so that we could have a repeat of A New Hope.

If they had gone down the more optimistic route, you could even have Rey or whoever be a member of said Smuggler's Guild or have the Disney heroes run into the guild which results in them teaming up with Han Solo and riding his Falcon due to being pursued due to a far better reason than "a map to Luke Skywalker" (which allows for cheap and easy Nostalgiabait right then and there without having to force in too many coincidences at once or making Han lose his prized possession), or hell since Ford didn't want to be in the movie, have his character die off in a past conflict with the Vong or Snoke's nu-Vong instead of Chewie and have a possible third child fill his shoes and serve as the head of the Smuggler's Guild and a potential main character for this new franchise (which is sorely lacking in heroes with any connection to the Skywalkers outside of the walking wastebin villain that is Emo Ren) so as to not needlessly give the Falcon away and reduce it to a fucking plot device. But they didn't want to go down that route because new Lucasfilm just wants to eliminate all traces of the past and kill off the bloodline of the heroes and replace them with their fucking OCs who have to be better than the original heroes at everything. They didn't have to, but they did. They could've still honored the past yet still be free to tell an original story, and they wouldn't even need to retcon anything from the original films, the prequels or even the old pre-Disney lore because you're still making an adventurous tale that honors the world and its heroes with a real future that has plenty of room for completely original and creative stories, and the retcons I suggested would even make the most lore-strict old nerds of olde happy (since quite frankly even the most diehard EU fans thought everything went to shit after 25ABY which was when the Vong arrived and brought about Chewie's death) so rebooting everything after 25ABY would've been celebrated, but instead they retconned everything, including the OT and its characters on a whim just to satisfy the egos of Kennedy, JJ, Rian and Disney execs which only helped to divide the fanbase from the get-go.

But this somewhat optimistic future gives way to some issues, like "if this future is so bright then there's not much room for conflict". Not necessarily true. The first film could've started off as seemingly optimistic, but all it would take to start a new conflict is a showcase of a mysterious weapon (that's not a Death Star copy/paste) suddenly unleashing its might and laying waste to half of Coruscant (rather than Not-Coruscant) putting the state of the galaxy in chaos and making all aware that the Empire's legacy continues, and both prequel lovers and prequel haters would be pleased by this impacting scene through either emotional attachment or a fondness for seeing the "boring old senators" get blown to pieces. With the main seat of government crushed, it falls to the scattered Republic remnants to keep order in the rising chaos of the galaxy, and the military branch that would serve as the first line of defense against the now hostile First Order/Imperial Remnant act as the main hero faction we must cheer for.

star-wars-tldr.gif

I'm half-asleep as I write this so please forgive this mess of text.

I admit, my ideas probably aren't perfect, but I feel like I probably put more thought and effort into them than Lucasfilm's new story team did with their new universe.
You're not going about this the way Lucasfilm is, go about it the way Lucasfilm does and you'll see the problem.
Alright, so, in terms of ticket sales, the original Star Wars was by and far the most successful movie in the franchise, and we want to replicate it. Ergo, we should replicate it, and put someone who's already remade a Sci Fi franchise. Next, Kennedy wants a strong female character, so let's put her in as... dunno, let's say the main protagonist.

Ford wants out, so let's ax him ASAP. Hey, stormtroopers are people, let's have one be a main character! And he's black! But we need comic relief like C-3P0, so let's make him a janitor who can't do anything right! Ooh, and we need a new Boba Fett, and they'll be a stormtrooper. Oh, and a strong girl, Kennedy wants another.

You can see where things went.
 
So, out of curiosity, any suggestions on how to make Snoke less of a waste of screentime and turn him into a memorable villain?
Not making him Palpatine 2.0 with generic motivations would be a start, but if I had to think of something, well... as overused as the idea is, I would've gone with him being a "child" of Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis was a powerful muun Sith Lord whose force powers allowed him to create life, with his ultimate goal being immortality by creating perfect hosts to serve as vessels or altering the very framework of life and achieve immortality for himself and the Sith.

This is prefaced on my initial belief that Snoke was going to be the badass master villain of the new trilogy before he was anticlimactically offed by Kylo.

First and foremost, I think we need to know who Snoke is, how he was gifted with the Force, and how he rose from obscurity to becoming the Galaxy's supreme villain in the 30 years between trilogies with or without Luke's knowledge. Change like that doesn't happen overnight, and it's unlikely - and unrealistic - to have him take power the same way Palpatine did. Was he a malcontent rogue disappointed that the Rebels destroyed two Death Stars and both Darth Sidious and Darth Vader in the process? Was he simply an opportunist who worked with Imperial Sympathizers behind the scenes to establish his connections and loyalties? Not knowing how he rose to power makes him seem more like he was put into the villain slot simply because we needed one. Better to develop his backstory than to make a deleted scene and Wookiepedia entry out of his stupid slippers.

I also think if Snoke was as powerful as he was, he'd also know Kylo had feelings for Rey and warn him that such feelings go against the nature of being a Sith or Knight of Ren and that it was his own grandfather's love for family that led to him both becoming Vader and dying to redeem his son - a warning of sorts to Kylo that consorting with the enemy is unwise. Perhaps Snoke could even unleash some Force lightning to drive the point home.

Finally, Snoke should have been more aware of Kylo's attempt to off him and done more to try to put his pupil in his place. As an alternative, Snoke could either Force-choke Kylo or even surprise him by dueling Kylo himself leaving Rey to decide if she should escape while she has the chance, or join in the duel to help Kylo, surprising Snoke. If Snoke had to die in that scene, at least let it come in an unexpected way that's not a retread of previous films and a way that doesn't make Snoke look more like a cardboard cutout than an omnipotent villain trying to control the Galaxy.
 
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Definetly. And she's a good example of a well-written antagonist (if you can even call her that, since she's more of an independently acting character). Her goal is to help her people at the cost of nature. It's my favorite Ghibli movie for that setup alone. Everyone has a strong motivation for what they do. Lady Eboshi and San being on two opposite sides of the "Human interests - Interests of the forest spirits and nature" axis whereas Ashitaka wants to reconcile between the two.

She's an antagonist to the extent that she has an agenda that frequently runs contrary to the other characters'. That's basically what the movie is about, competing agendas, with no one "bad guy" to defeat. Though she is most definitely a well-written character, whatever type of character she is.

Just what does it say about a social movement if their ideal personality (in this case for a woman) is being an arrogant, dismissive, impolite, unappreciative, toxic cunt?

That it's full of mean people. And I don't mean "mean" just in the Mean Girls sense- though I totally mean that too- but rather "mean" in the sense of being petty, small-minded, and unambitious. Hell, their idea of a "strong woman" is so straightjacketed that most Mary Sue authors of fanfiction dot net have them beat by a country mile in terms of scope of vision. At least THOSE Mary Sues have oodles of charisma (we're told,) beautiful, great singing voices, amazing in bed- all traits that can inform strength and personality outside of the restrictive bounds of "can break a lot of shit."

Basically, it's a movement made of people who never got over high school, which is why journalists are drawn to it like flies to shit.

This is prefaced on my initial belief that Snoke was going to be the badass master villain of the new trilogy before he was anticlimactically offed by Kylo.

First and foremost, I think we need to know who Snoke is, how he was gifted with the Force, and how he rose from obscurity to becoming the Galaxy's supreme villain in the 30 years between trilogies with or without Luke's knowledge. Change like that doesn't happen overnight, and it's unlikely - and unrealistic - to have him take power the same way Palpatine did. Was he a malcontent rogue disappointed that the Rebels destroyed two Death Stars and both Darth Sidious and Darth Vader in the process? Was he simply an opportunist who worked with Imperial Sympathizers behind the scenes to establish his connections and loyalties? Not knowing how he rose to power makes him seem more like he was put into the villain slot simply because we needed one. Better to develop his backstory than to make a deleted scene and Wookiepedia entry out of his stupid slippers.

This all really ties together with the paucity of backstory in the ST movies to date. To know how Snoke came to power would mean knowing what the First Order was, beyond "the Empire, again." Did it exist within the original Empire and go independent once the parent state fell, or was it stitched together after the fact from disparate elements? They seem to have a lot of manpower and materiel and a long-term plan (they steal babies, FFS, they've clearly made the going concern assumption) so where does all this come from? None of these questions are really answered in the movie, so the organization Snoke led was almost as much of a cipher as him.

Which is a damn shame, because between "stormtroopers are people" and the Hux/Kylo rivalry, the not!Empire was the one thing that JJ actually took in something resembling a new direction.
 
My original idea for Snoke and Kylo was this:

Snoke would be a Wizard of Oz type, someone who pretends to have a great deal of power, but is in actuality, a con man that is able to convincingly play the role of a powerful and knowledgeable sith lord.

Kylo Ren would be a Sith fan boy/Vader cult leader (with no familial ties to the Solos and/or Skywalkers) who is learning about the darkside at Snoke's urging, and is gaining most of his knowledge through collection of Sith artifacts and historical accounts. The Revan-esque mask, collecting Vader's burnt up mask, and even the poorly made cross guard saber give off the impression of someone who is fascinated in the dark side of the force and is trying to apply it as best he can without real formal training. The Knights of Ren, in turn, would be his Sith cult followers. And Snoke, all the while, would be promising Ren some great power and knowledge in the future.

Ultimately, it would be revealed that Snoke has no powers and that he was an old Imperial officer that knew the only way to bring the Empire back to prominence would be if they had the Dark Side Force users leading the charge. He gave the Empire a new figurehead to look up to in Snoke and urged Kylo Ren's search for knowledge and power to ensure the "Rule of Two" would be reestablished. I kind of got this idea from the novels where Thrawn formed an alliance with the clone of C'Baoth knowing that The Emperor's dark side influence was essential to the Empire's military efforts.

Eventually Ren would discover that Snoke is a fraud, and he essentially put his faith in a false god, and they could have potentially done something with that.

Not what they did, but hey. Or I guess that's kind of what they did, but without any real answers.
 
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My original idea for Snoke and Kylo was this:

Snoke would be a Wizard of Oz type, someone who pretends to have a great deal of power, but is in actuality, a con man that is able to convincingly playing the role of a powerful and knowledgeable sith lord.

Kylo Ren would be a Sith fan boy/Vader cult leader (with no familial ties to the Solos and/or Skywalkers) who is learning about the darkside at Snoke's urging, and is gaining most of his knowledge through collection of Sith artifacts and historical accounts. The Revan-esque mask, collecting Vader's burnt up mask, and even the poorly made cross guard saber give off the impression of someone who is fascinated in the dark side of the force and is trying to apply it as best he can without real formal training. The Knights of Ren, in turn, would be his Sith cult followers. And Snoke, all the while, would be promising Ren some great power and knowledge in the future.

Ultimately, it would be revealed that Snoke has no powers and that he was an old Imperial officer that knew the only way to bring the Empire back to prominence would be if they had the Dark Side Force users leading the charge. He gave the Empire a new figurehead to look up to in Snoke and urged Kylo Ren's search for knowledge and power to ensure the "Rule of Two" would be reestablished. I kind of got this idea from the novels where Thrawn formed an alliance with the clone of C'Baoth knowing that The Emperor's dark side influence was essential to the Empire's military efforts.

Eventually Ren would discover that Snoke is a fraud, and he essentially put his faith in a false god, and they could have potentially done something with that.

Not what they did, but hey. Or I guess that's kind of what they did, but without any real answers.
I'd fucking pay to see that. Countless ideas to do in a near limitless setting but Disney instead opts for a bastardized repeat of the OT and several side servings of woke salad.
 
I'd fucking pay to see that. Countless ideas to do in a near limitless setting but Disney instead opts for a bastardized repeat of the OT and several side servings of woke salad.
Remember that you guys are doing a few things that Disney aren't:
1: You're taking risks. These ideas haven't been done in a big movie before, ergo the suits don't know how they'll work
2: You've watched and read the source material and hold it closely. You guys actually know what Star Wars is and should be, you know what you want in Star Wars and this is what you're doing with the limits you have.
3: You're not chugging soy by the gallon. We're on the Farms, we don't have an SJW bent to us.
 
You know what was a big risk in 1977?
I mean, that's kind of the crux of my entire argument earlier in the thread and as to why our ideas are exponentially better than Disney's, even if we disagree with each other: because the original Star Wars was a huge risk and work of love, which is why it worked. Now that it isn't risky, it won't work.
 
I don't know if it's been posted but these panels of traced faces in the comic are pretty exploitable.

8f712b1e33025a8ab63605d3020a7930-png.jpg
#Autistic but this is distracting to me as I can recognize where the screenshots are from. Han's face is clearly pasted onto a body from a different angle, it just looks weird.

If they can't draw well without tracing, I'd honestly rather read a comic which was in a similar style to Adventure Time or something. It might not look amazing, but at least it would have its own style, and you can accept it as its own thing. Traced photos are just creepy, and it's hard to take it as the story they're trying to tell when can recognize the sources.
Dang it I keep falling behind. Did anybody post the nuLeia vs Leia classic comparison video yet? (apologies if I'm late)

I will say I never really noticed she took the gun from Luke. I mean it's pretty obvious, but I guess it just never registered before.
 
I'm really wondering what kind of person these execs at Disney (or EA, Bethesda, etc) are.
They usually have no interest in the product they make, be it movie or vidya, to the contrary, they look down on these things and their core customers, it seems, and they have absolutely no clue what makes their product sell outside of very vague "It sells cause it has similarities to [popular competition]", but they never understand the merit or appeal of said qualities.
To them, Revolution60 and Doom are the same game operatively.
To them, The Room is equal to The Green Mile.

Who are these joyless, boring people that become execs? What do they do for fun (snorting cocaine and fucking bimbos aside)?
 
They're old people, they enjoy products for old people.

It's like Youtube trying to be TV or the centenaries from the academy still giving oscars to muscials. They're not joyless assholes, they are just (((white))), rich 70 year old people.
Given the choice I suppose I'd still rather watch Nu-Wars over NCIS.

Which I guess is the choice between spending time hanging out with MovieBob or Dobson.
 
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#Autistic but this is distracting to me as I can recognize where the screenshots are from. Han's face is clearly pasted onto a body from a different angle, it just looks weird.

If they can't draw well without tracing, I'd honestly rather read a comic which was in a similar style to Adventure Time or something. It might not look amazing, but at least it would have its own style, and you can accept it as its own thing. Traced photos are just creepy, and it's hard to take it as the story they're trying to tell when can recognize the sources.
I think they're trying to get the reader to be going "Woah, I can't believe they got their likeness down" but instead of drawing caricatures, they just took the hack method of just tracing the faces. You'd almost think Greg Land was "drawing" these but then you remember they aren't tracing porn like he does.
 
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