Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

[quickthrowaway]

I honestly knew him as one of the buu voice actors. Did not know he did piccolo, dr. briefs, and farmer with shotgun too.

That's surprising. He originated Piccolo and those other voices in English. But he would not get to Buu till after Funimation for the Canadian TV exclusive "Blue Water" dub.

 

[Genkoda]

That's surprising. He originated Piccolo and those other voices in English. But he would not get to Buu till after Funimation for the Canadian TV exclusive "Blue Water" dub.

I did not pay much attention of voice actors till way later. Even then buu was always one of my favorite characters so I just remembered the VA that wore a cowboy hat who also happened to voice buu.

 

[Captain Manning]

10 hours of Renfamous sounds.

 

[Jack Atlas]

10 hours of Renfamous sounds.

Even worse than chinese water torture

 

[Burnout]

Vic seems to be taking advice from his legal counsel so far, hopefully they can convince him against forgiving them and dropping this. I had this same thought too, Vic's too nice for his own good. If he drops it, his reputations done, they will put up a face that all good will is there while creating sock accounts to keep up the narrative that he's a rapist who was scared to go to court. Most importantly, they will do this again to another voice actor. One who's less beloved like Vic is. They will learn from this, make a better effort than they tried here. Do you think they will post their gay ops out in the open like they did here, when the next schmuck gets this treatment? They are stupid, but they have to have learned something. The only way to ensure this kind of gay-ops weaseling doesn't happen again is the real life example that there's a chance you can get fucked if you try it.

It's easy enough to say "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and know it's "in the Bible somewhere", but it goes well beyond that and especially applies to Ron and Shame... For context, a "stripe" is a lash of the whip, a red stripe on the back if you will. You'll also see "strokes", it is synonymous with stripes, just used as variation so as not to say the same word twice in the same sentence...

Proverbs 18:6 A fool’s lips enter into contention, And his mouth calleth for stripes.
Proverbs 19:29 Judgments are prepared for scoffers, And stripes for the back of fools.
Proverbs 20:30 Stripes that wound cleanse away evil; And strokes reach the innermost parts.

muh Bible verses! Fools earn their stripes, don't deny them Vic! Just like kids need to learn from their mistakes, so do these assholes. You're not doing them any favors, you're robbing them of a learning opportunity and the next true victim will suffer for it.

Edit: You can forgive someone and still have them get the help/punishment they need to grow.

 

[Captain Manning]

View attachment 717716

He knows she's gonna hit him for this, right?

I mean, he didn't name anybody, but she's still gonna try.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

PULL update.

View attachment 716680

There's another option here that Fairyduster doesn't seem to have considered. If #kickvic are telling the truth, then everyone - from fans, to VAs, to cons - has been covering up Vic's behaviour for 20 fucking years. Where are the calls for those involved in the cover-ups to be held accountable?

Little known fact: Occam's razor is only usable when both potential explanations are similarly plausible.

There isn't "everyone has been saying this for 20 years". There's been rumors for 15-20 years. There's been people petitioning to get him fired, but never a r r e s t e d for alleged criminal acts.

Barring events like GamerGate, it would perhaps be a weighty claim to say that there was an entire conspiracy to get Vic ousted from the industry, but in the past two months not a single person has brought up solid evidence of his alleged crimes. They just allude to this nebulous cloud of women who were allegedly harassed/assaulted by him.

But because of Marchi, we know they don't even have that.

And in the hypothetical where Vic actually did do these things, that means that there's another conspiracy-- one where he's shielded from the consequences of his actions. The cons? His coworkers currently crucifying him? They're all complicit. In at least Texas, if he assaulted a minor, they'd be in trouble for not starting with law enforcement instead of performing the business world's dumbest ouster. And then, we'd have to ask "why? Why now?" Well, maybe they're trying to cover their own butts-- even as we ousted the likes of Weinstein and Spacey, and to a lesser degree C.K, we also had people like Asia Argento who IIRC was very #metoo. Even in the anime scene, we had Scott Freeman who got vanned, and we know that Amanda Winn-Lee is... uh... a bit of a "loose" person, so to speak.

So maybe the entire anime industry is kind of riddled with "degenerates". That's certainly plausible, seeing as we've seen it be the case for Hollywood, and we already know the anime scene in general is riddled with degenerates.

...But if that's a possibility because of what the anime scene is capable of, how does that not make the former theory all the more plausible?

"Vic is definitely a compulsive pedophile who can't stop himself from hurting kids even when he knows consequences are coming. As you can plainly see, this is why not one single person should bring legal action against him, try to press charges or present the undeniable proof of his abusive behavior, and just settle on threatening him over twitter and taking away all his jobs"

And that's just it. Everyone that says "well, the rumors of him being a creepy pedophile have been circulating for 20 years!" need to cram it-- if they've somehow been aware of this, it means that not a single person cared about women and children being victimized to get the police involved. He's not some Hollywood star-- he's a VOICE ACTOR. He doesn't get hired for his own personnage-- he gets hired for his voice to overlay Nepalese fingerpaintings so that the average Joe doesn't have to read while watching moving pictures. What pull could this man have, especially given that he was able to be ousted within days of mere allegations?

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Raised By Wolves on Twitter: "Nick is just telling his incels what th…

archived 6 Apr 2019 02:40:20 UTC

archive.fo

I T S A G R I F T

I thought everyone wised up to the fact that Vic was definitely seeking litigation when we saw "on behalf of Beard Harris".

So it's probably a Renfamous sock.

It sounds far more uninformed than Ren.

What's remarkable is that these brain-dead moron are all over the country. These idiots are destroying lives and livelihoods. These below room temperature I.Q. people somehow have positions of power to hire and fire people. These aren't Machiavellian plans or schemes that would make Xanatos jealous. These are just liars hoping people just believe it...and there are people who have gotten fired for this shit.

This is America.

We already caught them slippin' up.

Sexual assault is hair pulling now, despite sexual assault usually needing penetration

Even Marchi claimed that she did her research and found it to be simple battery...

...and then let the statute run up on that. And now there's discussion about how likely it would have been for something like that to even happen, given that Vic would hardly have reason to be on Funimation grounds given his mini-studio.

If you look at Funi's Glass Door reviews, yeah he's probably got a few sources in there. It is not a happy company. The grunts are treated like shit and ignored. The Management is Random and Broken. They haven't had an actual HR department in ages. You figure there are a few underlings that like Vic and loathe Rial and Marchi, there would almost have to be, just by observing how they treat people.

Wa--wait. If they haven't had an HR department... how did they conduct the investigation?

View attachment 717065

I have no idea why they're obsessed with the idea of waiting until discovery to provide whatever information they have. It's not like dribbling their bullshit under oath will make it any less mockable.

Again, even Marchi admits that they have nothing, to the point that she hopes that Vic assaulted a minor that would come forth.

Yes, the fact that Ron knows and is claiming to parrot a funi hr investigation is itself an instance of defamation.

It can also be taken that Rial is seeking to distance herself from the acts of business defamation by feeding them through her soyfriend.

Well, the obvious in that statement would be that that would be rather crappy of Rial to do to her fiancé.

...that, and that more than a Boy Toye, Mr./Ms. Soye is just a literal tool.

View attachment 717563

Is it 10 years, 15 years, or 20 years?

Nah, it's 3 0 years.

Soon enough, we'll have heard that Vic tag teamed with Bill Cosby in the '80s.

An attorney would have told him to shut up, and expect him to follow through.

I mean... technically, we know of a lawyer who's consistently been doing that.

Yes, and yes.

His first anime role was in 1999, as Vega from the Street Fighter II anime.

Wow, didn't think his work extended that far back.

Before that, he did theater shit.

I think there was some bullshit claim going back to his theater days, but the timeline didn't match up, so it was debunked.

With 700+ pages, it's probably been discussed here, but I wouldn't even begin to know where to look. But, yeah, some "Michelle" person had this whole story about how a Vic easing up on his 30s had gotten too handsy with her after luring her in with the promise of wholesome Christian activity after taking her up as a protegée or something.

It seemed the most credible at the time that I read about it (there was a discrepancy between the Wikipedia account of Vic's job history and an archive of Vic's archived resume... at least it was said, and I bought at the time), but the behavior of the accuser was off. She said that she was willing to answer questions, but after I made the statement that I couldn't find her name in any of the material (I didn't completely realize that she was making the case that she was in high school at the time) and literally having a conversation in which I recognized that detail, I was blocked. The only thing of substance that she could prove was that Vic appeared in a play at Liberty University in the '80s-- she didn't even state the name of the high school that she went to, or any evidence that Vic worked at the high school as a cameraman. Like the other major accusations, it was weirdly detailed (one may say that it was fanfic-tier, but that seems like an empty derision)-- she recalls Vic's eyes becoming "ice cold" after she got him off of her, for example.

She literally said that she didn't care about what happened to him, too, which made her entire involvement incomprehensible. She said that she wanted to shed light on the dangers of Evangelical Christianity or somesuch.

Would really appreciate if someone could say when discussion of that took place here, if it did at all.

I wonder if he's losing his mind because he realizes that if this goes to court, it's inevitable that the entire world will get to know as a proven fact that he was cucked by Vic's big dick, that his fiancee fucked Vic and that he is a cuck, and he will have to live forevermore wearing the horns of cuckoldry.

Wherever he goes, he will never be able to hold his head high, because as he passes, everyone will nod sadly: "yup, there goes that cuck again."

Dude, if that happens to be what actually happened, then probably everyone including Vic would regard this as a direct punishment from God for not reigning in his wiener.

Monica has already admitted that the Kamehacon chair is a friend

Like a friend friend, or in the same way that her and Vic were "friends"?

That's not even taking into account him repeatedly claiming "sexual assault" and then trying to walk it back to "Vic was creepy/inappropriate" without retracting the original statements.

Rial did something similar in how she's treated her allegation of Vic.... She maligned an account of Vic kissing her with her being raped as a teenager. She treats it as assault, but calls it "inappropriate" instead of assault.

You know, I don't think that Soye et al are that stupid enough to keep doing this.
Maybe just maybe, they are banking on Vic's magnanimous forgiving nature. Maybe the are just waiting for them to be serve papers then call up Vic then ask to forgive them and withdraw the suit.
Then after that, they will go on twitter that they are friends with Vic again that misunderstanding is cleared up, etc etc etc.

They got to destroy Vic's life and get away with it if that happens.

I think they're that stupid to keep doing this, and they're definitely not banking on Vic's forgiving nature at this point. At best, they keep vacillating between trying to get everyone to sing kumbaya and accusing Vic of assaulting six million women and children singlehandedly over the course of 500 years.

http://archive.li/lyMPN

Someone, shove sticks up my nose...I had trouble getting past the first paragraph, it was so torturous. Stronger people can do blow-by-blows...

So, just to be clear, why is Vic guilty of what he's been accused of?

This has been established by his pattern of behavior for years.

No elaboration on what behavior's being alluded to.

What gives credibility to the side of Monica Rial, Jamie Marchi, Jamie McGonnigal, Marzgurl, etc. is that not only do their words and allegations line up with accounts of Vic’s skeevy behavior towards fans and women that have been going around the internet for YEARS (It’s honestly astonishing just how far back some of this goes), but how many other VAs, people actually in the industry who might’ve worked alongside Vic and would be there to witness his actions, have come out in Vic’s defense? Can’t really think of much. Meanwhile, how many have been coming out in support of the alleged victims? Quite a handful, even J. Michael Tatum, himself a victim of sexual assault in the past. Apparently, Vic being a primadona and a skeevy womanizing creeper has been an open secret in the VA industry since forever.

What skeevy behavior is being referred to? If it was "going around the internet for YEARS" why is everyone only talking about it now? How do the INDEPENDENT accounts of interactions with Vic somehow align with the allegations of Rial, Marchi, McGonnigal, and Marzgurl?

...and who's Jamie McGonnigal, again?

Not to mention, Vic outright said for others to not get involved in this so that they don't get hurt trying to defend him. #istandwithvic/#vickicksback have been doing this entirely out of their own volition. Also not mentioned is the fact that there's largely no "I knew of this as well" support as much as there is "believe women" support.

Well not only was a thorough investigation into the sexual harassment allegations conducted during the time of the Broly movie’s production prior to Funimation’s decision to lay Vic off (something his fans don’t even seem to realize happened)

It's recognized that it happened.

It's also recognized that the investigation, which was done in November, turned out to be inconclusive.

Thankfully, it's not as long as I thought it would have been, but I'm not parsing this out anymore because this reply block is terribly large already. The person goes on to whinge about how #istandwithvic/#vickicksback on Youtube is some sort of far-right hive which may as well invalidate every single word being said-- to say nothing of the fact that it comes down to "well these people that I also don't know are supposedly saying that Vic is as bad as the rumors make him out to be" (I would wager all of them are NOT saying any such thing, they're just going "believe women, believe survivors"), but... there is this:

It’s a Michael Jackson type of situation - even if he’s NOT done the things he’s being accused of, that does NOT make his creepy behavior towards underage fangirls excusable or alright.

...which is followed by... this:

Tl;dr: I shall from now on be referring to this VA as “Vic Cosby Mignogna.” ‘Cause even if he’s not guilty of the heinous shit that Bill Cosby is guilty of, his case is still all too eerily similar.

I'm almost certain this was written by a child-- fitting, since Tumblr always smelled like teen spirit.

Imagine knowing nothing about either case but then equating them.

View attachment 717716

...someone should tell Rackets that Ren is actually cis before he accidentally lands himself in the Twitter pen.

 

[repentance]

I came across this post on lolcow yesterday and it has me curious. It mentions other VAs and "a bunch of problematic photographers" being on some sort of con blacklist. This isn't something which has been mentioned by Shane or Ron, but the guy from BubbaFest did suggest that sex pests exist in the industry, even though he didn't mention any unofficial list.

It would be interesting to get hold of that list and see what names are on it, if an anon wants to send it our way.

 

[Urbanmech]

Kamehacon announced Scott McNeil and unlike everyone else he's going to be doing free signings all weekend long


https://twitter.com/KamehaCon/status/1114704938150584320

View attachment 717727

I just know him from Beast Wars as Rattrap and Dinobot

 

[Genkoda]

It's easy enough to say "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and know it's "in the Bible somewhere", but it goes well beyond that and especially applies to Ron and Shame... For context, a "stripe" is a lash of the whip, a red stripe on the back if you will. You'll also see "strokes", it is synonymous with stripes, just used as variation so as not to say the same word twice in the same sentence...

Proverbs 18:6 A fool’s lips enter into contention, And his mouth calleth for stripes.
Proverbs 19:29 Judgments are prepared for scoffers, And stripes for the back of fools.
Proverbs 20:30 Stripes that wound cleanse away evil; And strokes reach the innermost parts.

muh Bible verses! Fools earn their stripes, don't deny them Vic! Just like kids need to learn from their mistakes, so do these assholes. You're not doing them any favors, you're robbing them of a learning opportunity and the next true victim will suffer for it.

Edit: You can forgive someone and still have them get the help/punishment they need to grow.

The whole concept of "spare the rod, spoil the child" has been twisted really.

Proverbs 13:24 states "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. "

Or with the king james version as many would know "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. "

So vic if you love somewhat care about them, do not spare them.

 

[Captain Manning]

I came across this post on lolcow yesterday and it has me curious. It mentions other VAs and "a bunch of problematic photographers" being on some sort of con blacklist. This isn't something which has been mentioned by Shane or Ron, but the guy from BubbaFest did suggest that sex pests exist in the industry, even though he didn't mention any unofficial list.

View attachment 717744

It would be interesting to get hold of that list and see what names are on it, if an anon wants to send it our way.

We already have it. It's the Broken Staircase list. Monokun, Todd, and Vic are on there. Sevakis WAS on it, until he got white-knighted off by the same ANN fags trying to destroy Vic. Polygon did a writeup about it.

However, I just checked the website, and the account has apparently been suspended.

http://brokenstaircase.info/

That's VERY interesting. I wonder what happened?

EDIT: The ACTUAL Google Doc is here. Feel free to save a local copy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hI-rK_3LtijqL7atYAfwif1k-WSvNQeiRhGoWT7uTLA/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Jaimas]

Kamehacon announced Scott McNeil and unlike everyone else he's going to be doing free signings all weekend long


https://twitter.com/KamehaCon/status/1114704938150584320

View attachment 717727

MIGHTY IS HE

 

[TheClappening]

I just know him from Beast Wars as Rattrap and Dinobot

I wonder what it felt like to be bickering with yourself for half your lines.

 

[Least Concern]

http://archive.fo/3o1RJ

http://archive.fo/Em9A5

"Don't need pics or video Testimony under oath will suffice." So he hasn't yet got the memo that none of these 30 gorillion women are going to be testifying in this thing. These guys all run a few weeks late.

T H I R T Y
Y E A R S

Has anime even been a thing in the West for that long? Has Vic been a thing in the anime scene for longer than the early 2000s?

Sure, if you count stuff like Robotech. But I wouldn't say the industry as we know it existed before the late '90s or so.

Ah, what a classic. I got to keep the Wii U when my wife left, so… it could have been worse.

Wa--wait. If they haven't had an HR department... how did they conduct the investigation?

Hmm. A good catch I noticed in that massive wall of text before I stopped reading. We really don't know much about the investigation(s) at this point…

Anyway, I decided I'm gonna do a thing. Here's the first one.

 

[New_001]

PULL update.

View attachment 716680

There's another option here that Fairyduster doesn't seem to have considered. If #kickvic are telling the truth, then everyone - from fans, to VAs, to cons - has been covering up Vic's behaviour for 20 fucking years. Where are the calls for those involved in the cover-ups to be held accountable?

So bitches like Logical Razors? I have one for them.

Hitchens's razor "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

In other words If you are going to accuse a man who has worked in the industry for over two decades and is on thousands of thousands of hours of film of being a sexual predator you better have some spectacular fucking evidence. Evidence well beyond the hearsay and personal anecdote bullshit you have given us thusfar.

These fuckers just grind my gears.

 

[Jub-Jub]

10 hours of Renfamous sounds.

Shame on Nick, Orcas are smart beautiful creatures, who work hard for their meals and shouldn't be compared to that thing. The ugly, useless manatee is more her style.

I came across this post on lolcow yesterday and it has me curious. It mentions other VAs and "a bunch of problematic photographers" being on some sort of con blacklist. This isn't something which has been mentioned by Shane or Ron, but the guy from BubbaFest did suggest that sex pests exist in the industry, even though he didn't mention any unofficial list.

View attachment 717744

It would be interesting to get hold of that list and see what names are on it, if an anon wants to send it our way.

I haven't seen anyone giving a fuck about momokun, other than acknowledging her as a fat cosplay thot. Also tagging @Not A Bug to see if they can give any info / drop hints on this stuff.


I remembered that Ty said the ALOD wanted to crucify La Choy and that other guy for sending an ethics complaint against Nick, a person they barely know. How do you think they feel about him going after their boss, a man they have personally known for a long time? They're going to have fun deposing him.

 

[repentance]

We already have it. It's the Broken Staircase list. Monokun, Todd, and Vic are on there. Sevakis WAS on it, until he got white-knighted off by the same ANN fags trying to destroy Vic. Polygon did a writeup about it.

However, I just checked the website, and the account has apparently been suspended.

http://brokenstaircase.info/

That's VERY interesting. I wonder what happened?

EDIT: The ACTUAL Google Doc is here. Feel free to save a local copy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hI-rK_3LtijqL7atYAfwif1k-WSvNQeiRhGoWT7uTLA/edit?usp=sharing

Do we have both of the lists referred to here?

In the animation industry, the fear of sexual harassment and sexism has recently led to the promotion of two submission-based lists of ‘bad actors’, one professionally supported and the other an anonymous database requiring no evidence.

...

In early January, an anonymous submission-based database of individuals, mostly male, was created following the accusations of sexual impropriety lobbied at prolific voice actor Vic Mignogna. The publicly available database catalogs reports of sexual misconduct and harassment concerning members of various animation communities. Unlike the ‘Gender Equity in Animation Study’, Fix the Broken Staircase is not run by an official organization, but rather by an anonymous individual who refers to themselves only as ‘the moderator.’ The name is an allusion to a phrase coined by Cliff Pervocracy in 2012, ‘The Missing Stair’, which refers to members of a group actively turning a blind eye to a problematic person or situation, the proverbial missing stair in a staircase, rather than actively taking measures to solve the problem. The database currently features individuals ranging from prominent voice actors, to regular convention attendees, to cosplayers and photographers.

...

The most troubling aspect of the Broken Staircase is the fact that the database requires no qualifying criteria: individuals can submit an anonymous story, without evidence, and have the accused name’s added to list of offenders simply by filling out the provided survey form.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...ves-vic-mignogna-and-todd-haberkorn-targeted/

http://archive.fo/KLXHF

 

[zyclonPD]

Shame on Nick, Orcas are smart beautiful creatures, who work hard for their meals and shouldn't be compared to that thing. The ugly, useless manatee is more her style.

Yeah, but the word "Manatee" already has a pretty strong association with a lolcow already.

 

[Captain Manning]

Sure, if you count stuff like Robotech. But I wouldn't say the industry as we know it existed before the late '90s or so.

The industry absolutely existed since the late 80s. I was around to see it. US Renditions was founded in '87 (and subbed Gunbuster in '90). Streamline Pictures was formed in '88, and dubbed Akira the same year. Animeigo was also founded in '88 and released Maddox-01 (where the infamous cuck himself takes his name from) in '89. Central Park Media came in '90.

A-Kon, where the chair abuser was fired from, was formed in 1990, and is presumed to be the oldest US anime convention.

I could go on...

No, the industry wasn't exactly like today (VHS and Laserdisc, instead of BD and streaming), and many of the OG companies don't even exist anymore, but it did very much exist.

Do we have both of the lists referred to here?

AFAIK, there's one list, and that's what I linked. I'm confused why you think there's two.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

The industry absolutely existed since the late 80s. I was around to see it. US Renditions was founded in '87 (and subbed Gunbuster in '90). Streamline Pictures was formed in '88, and dubbed Akira the same year. Animeigo was also founded in '88 and released Maddox-01 (where the infamous cuck himself takes his name from) in '89. Central Park Media came in '90.

When was Speed Racer dubbed?
Or Gigantor?