Unpopular Opinions About Western Animation

[Midlife Sperglord]

The Black Cauldron was a masterpiece that deserved a bigger audience than what it got.

 

[Shokew]

The Black Cauldron was a masterpiece that deserved a bigger audience than what it got.

I hate to do this, but how about you try and sell me (in your words) on just how criminally underrated this movie truly is, please.

 

[Clockwork_PurBle]

I watched Black Cauldron for the first time recently (I'm trying to watch the Disney "classics" or pre-2000 Disneys I haven't seen) and I have mixed feelings on it.

On one hand, I liked it and do think its underrated to an extent. However, it does not hold a candle to other Disney films of that decade or the others in general. Animation was strange, it was kinda short, and a butt ton was left-out of the plot (and I know why).

The reasons why it doesn't hold a candle are not the film's fault (speaking as if the film is a sentient being, lol) but that doesn't mean it doesn't have those faults.

 

[Midlife Sperglord]

I hate to do this, but how about you try and sell me (in your words) on just how criminally underrated this movie truly is, please.

I decided to watch it again after reading this.

Ok, it is criminally underrated in the sense that it was not nearly bad enough to nearly kill the Disney animation industry, but it is less of a masterpiece when I am watching it sober. You got me here.

 

[Recoil]

Comically fluid, exaggerated movements (like what you see in Don Bluth films) are a hallmark of Western animation. Things move in ways they shouldn't, like the taxi cab in Roger Rabbit. Far as I can tell, the use of this aesthetic springs out of a visual tradition set in place by early American cartoons like Felix the Cat & Bosco. Western artists seem to never have fully shaken the style, probably on account of how it defined a so-called 'golden age' in American animation. Look how much anime characters have changed since the 60's. Disney? Not so much.
There's no future-proof way to rigidly ground an entire creative tradition in the era that birthed it. Irrelevance is inevitable.

 

[Matthew216]

Comically fluid, exaggerated movements (like what you see in Don Bluth films) are a hallmark of Western animation. Things move in ways they shouldn't, like the taxi cab in Roger Rabbit. Far as I can tell, the use of this aesthetic springs out of a visual tradition set in place by early American cartoons like Felix the Cat & Bosco. Western artists seem to never have fully shaken the style, probably on account of how it defined a so-called 'golden age' in American animation. Look how much anime characters have changed since the 60's. Disney? Not so much.
There's no future-proof way to rigidly ground an entire creative tradition in the era that birthed it. Irrelevance is inevitable.

To be perfectly honest, I like Don Bluth’s style, especially on the big screen with good colors and shading. It just hits me more really, I can’tvreally Explain it any better.
I personally think anime hit it’s peak in the early 90’s, and I still love the old 80’s anime style.

 

[Recoil]

I personally think anime hit it’s peak in the early 90’s, and I still love the old 80’s anime style.

I'm with you 100% on that! There's a perfect blend between the smoothness of western animation and the exacting nature of Anime at work in early 90's anime. Like during the traffic jam scene in the start of akira when the dog gets shot? Or those bike chases? That's the top of it all, for me.

 

[Clorox Cowboy]

I personally think anime hit it’s peak in the early 90’s, and I still love the old 80’s anime style.

Anime at work in early 90's anime. Like during the traffic jam scene in the start of akira when the dog gets shot? Or those bike chases? That's the top of it all, for me.

Akira is late 80s not 90s. Also 70s = best.
This is unpopular western opinions though not anime.

Superjail is the best thing to come out of Adult Swim.

Rugrats was never good.

Ren and Stimpy is unwatchable.

It doesn't matter that 12 oz Mouse has little to no animation, it tells a better story than 90% of TV animation in the last ten years.

Spiderverse was just ok.

There is nothing wrong with still enjoying PBS Kids shows a suprising ammount of them cater to all age groups as opposed to things like Nick Jr. Stuff like Arthur, Cyberchase, Wordgirl, Between the Lions, and whatnot are easy to sit down and watch without feeling insulted by the character talking to the screen to tell you stuff. It's no worse than watching any other cartoon.
This of course doesn't apply to stuff like Super Why! and other ones which are literally just about learning your ABCs and 123s with a minimal plot tieing the episodes together, those I can't see the appeal of if you are over 6.

 

[Recoil]

Superjail is the best thing to come out of Adult Swim.

Rugrats was never good.

Ren and Stimpy is unwatchable.

I'm with you 100% except for these. Rugrats might never have been special, but the last show I remember building its stories from a child's imaginings that well was Muppet Babies. In terms of flow and characterization I think they had something above average, with enough subtle jabs thrown in to amuse parents.

Ren & Stimpy did one thing well, it reached back into time and sampled old music & aesthetics to comic effect. However, it doesn't hold up as well today and its very hard for me to separate it from what I know about John K.

Superjail was phenomenal, absolute in the top 3 with its baroque violent take on (IMO) hipster twee aesthetics. It's also the kinda thing that holds ups over time. Nevertheless, I gotta give it up for Venture Brothers. There's some really great worldbuilding and comedy writing in that show that I think will be just as fun in ten years from now.

EDIT - oh yeah, I disagree with you on 70's anime, too. I guess 100% was the wrong choice of words.
Wouldn't you place late 88-89 into the early 90's anime aesthetic? Am I wrong to do so?

 

[Trilby]

I'm with you 100% on that! There's a perfect blend between the smoothness of western animation and the exacting nature of Anime at work in early 90's anime. Like during the traffic jam scene in the start of akira when the dog gets shot? Or those bike chases? That's the top of it all, for me.

Even for 1988, that was an impressive moment in the film, sets up the remaining perfectly.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Ren & Stimpy did one thing well, it reached back into time and sampled old music & aesthetics to comic effect. However, it doesn't hold up as well today and its very hard for me to separate it from what I know about John K.

Do recall that there were a lot of people working on Ren and Stimpy who weren't him, all of whom have gone on to many other beloved cartoons and largely shaped the animation landscape we know of today - while John K., in the end, did not.

(One unpopular opinion I have: I see a lot of people claiming that the real genius of R&S was Bob Camp. While it is essentially true - he wrote and boarded a lot of the best episodes - I kind of don't like that a lot of people who hold it pretty much stemming out of a sort of contrarianism. Not really out of genuine appreciation for the man's work - and he's done so much good stuff - but largely because he's not John K.

Admittedly, this is something I can give or take if it leads to more people enjoying his work. I've been a fan for years.)

 

[Recoil]

Do recall that there were a lot of people working on Ren and Stimpy who weren't him, all of whom have gone on to many other beloved cartoons and largely shaped the animation landscape we know of today - while John K., in the end, did not.

(One unpopular opinion I have: I see a lot of people claiming that the real genius of R&S was Bob Camp. While it is essentially true - he wrote and boarded a lot of the best episodes - I kind of don't like that a lot of people who hold it pretty much stemming out of a sort of contrarianism. Not really out of genuine appreciation for the man's work - and he's done so much good stuff - but largely because he's not John K.

Admittedly, this is something I can give or take if it leads to more people enjoying his work. I've been a fan for years.)

Thanks for setting me straight on bob camp - it's his name I can clearly remember being at the start of ALL my favorite episodes. I'm gonna go IMDB what else he's done.

 

[AnOminous]

(One unpopular opinion I have: I see a lot of people claiming that the real genius of R&S was Bob Camp. While it is essentially true - he wrote and boarded a lot of the best episodes - I kind of don't like that a lot of people who hold it pretty much stemming out of a sort of contrarianism. Not really out of genuine appreciation for the man's work - and he's done so much good stuff - but largely because he's not John K.

I think it's an attempt to try to salvage something they still like (R&S) when they find John K. so fucking repulsive that it's embarrassing to like anything he ever had anything to do with. Somehow, he managed to make it even more impossible to separate his shitty self from his work than Roman Polanski, a literal child rapist.

It's definitely true that lots of other people contributed to R&S and did better afterwards, but yes, John K. and even his fucked up personality had a lot to do with even what was popular and good about it. (It's still impossible to watch even the good episodes without being distracted by "oh yeah here is one of John's shitty fetishes again" now.)

 

[Clockwork_PurBle]

Not sure how hot of a take this is, because I've seen mixed views on this take I have.

I don't like Adventure Time post-Season 5 (I believe it was 5). Don't get me wrong, I love weirdness and absurdity but the plot just became far, far too complicated and sometimes it felt like they were overcomplicating things for the sake of "muh deep lore" or something, i.e. making Gunther some sort of billion year-old entity. I don't think that alone is a bad idea, but when you look at the mountain of lore and complexities that were already there it just seems unnecessary. Why can't he just be a penguin? What the heck is a "grable"? What was the point of half of those post-5 episodes? And I do love shows with continuing stories, but...

I sort of stopped watching TV in general around that time in favor of outside activities and time constraints, but my siblings would report back to me that they didn't like AT anymore because "it's too weird and I don't get it!". These are preteens. There's a website where someone chronicled the entire AT timeline and holy shit.

It became hard for me to follow for these reasons. I know CN neglecting it in favor of TTG and SU contributed a lot to this but still.

Sorry for being late, but could someone kindly give me the "in a nutshell" version of John K.'s drama or antics?

I'm not really familiar with R&S, because I don't really like many shows from that era and personally I thought R&S was ugly as a kid so I didn't watch it (Powdered Toast Man is hilarious though).

 

[AnOminous]

Sorry for being late, but could someone kindly give me the "in a nutshell" version of John K.'s drama or antics?

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

I think it's an attempt to try to salvage something they still like (R&S) when they find John K. so fucking repulsive that it's embarrassing to like anything he ever had anything to do with. Somehow, he managed to make it even more impossible to separate his shitty self from his work than Roman Polanski, a literal child rapist.

It's definitely true that lots of other people contributed to R&S and did better afterwards, but yes, John K. and even his fucked up personality had a lot to do with even what was popular and good about it. (It's still impossible to watch even the good episodes without being distracted by "oh yeah here is one of John's shitty fetishes again" now.)

You mean daddy issues, right?

Sorry for being late, but could someone kindly give me the "in a nutshell" version of John K.'s drama or antics?

I'm not really familiar with R&S, because I don't really like many shows from that era and personally I thought R&S was ugly as a kid so I didn't watch it (Powdered Toast Man is hilarious though).

Read the thread in the Lolcows section.

 

[AnOminous]

You mean daddy issues, right?

Daddy issues, obvious pedophilia, just a whole raftload of disgusting stuff.

But George Liquor is Daddy Issues: the Character.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Rugrats was never good.

The parents and other adult antics were the only things I liked about the show. Whenever the babies were the primary focus the show was boring. When it focused on Angelica, it was intolerable. At the very least it wasn't its spin-offs.

Ren and Stimpy is unwatchable.

I never got the praise it's received. Sure it revolutionized animation when it came out, but the old saying of "just because it's important, doesn't mean it's good" applies. The animation relies too much on gross out humor and unless it was a Bob Cramp or Early Rough Draft episode, wasn't good even compared to the other Nicktoons it premiered with.

Spiderverse was just ok.

I liked its artstyle, but honestly, I just don't see the appeal. Probably was the best choice for Best Animated Feature for the Oscars considering its competition either way.

 

[Shokew]

To be perfectly honest, I like Don Bluth’s style, especially on the big screen with good colors and shading. It just hits me more really, I can’tvreally Explain it any better.
I personally think anime hit it’s peak in the early 90’s, and I still love the old 80’s anime style.

Yeah, most anime I prefer came from the early 90s to somewhere in the close to late 00s. Only so much appeals to me, now. Off-topic, I know. I'll smack myself later...

To get back on target... Am I the only one watching Rick and Morty for the violence and not much else? That's the only area the show really shines for me, save for some decent backgrounds here and there. The characters? Bob's Burgers has better characters in general. In fact, Bob's Burgers is just a better show, IMHO, too.
I daresay it's easily my favorite animated sitcom of the 2010s, if not of all time, despite the curse of going on for a couple seasons too many. Everyday, I pray it ends on a high note so it can't turn into a zombie like other shows of its caliber have, honestly.

 

[madethistocomment]

Voltron Force, for all its starting faults, was pretty good in the later part of the show and had a lot of cool concepts and ideas. I particularly liked the Haggarium poisoning thing going on with Sven, his son, and Daniel. It could also get decently funny. I never understood the sheer amount of hate it got.